hdtv newbie - massive confusion

[wackman]

Hey everyone,

Last Sunday, I spent my tax return on 2 new HDTVs. I got a 42" Vizio (VO42FL) for the living room and a 32" Westinghouse (W3223) for my room. I love 'em. But, I'm confused about something and I need help.

In my room, I have this sometimes HTPC that previously, I was using to record off of cable. Instead, I'm just going to use it for playback. Anyway, I've been wanting to buy an upconverting DVD player for the living room and I want my HTPC to do the same thing.

At the store, the box of one of those DVD players says that it upconverts the DVD to full 1080p by filling in the missing pixels with a "nearest neighbor" algorithm. If that's true, couldn't that be done in software on an HTPC? Or am I just falling for the marketing hype?

I've heard people say that HDTVs will do the upconverting for you, or that a PC will do 10x better than a 70$ player will. I would imagine that all that would happen would be the 480p signal would just be stretched across the screen, enlarging the pixels and making the blocky picture more obvious. Is it possible to really upconvert to a 1080i/p (my Westy only does 720p)? If it's possible, I'd love to watch Star Wars in near-HD.

When the Vizio was set up, we popped in a DVD: "Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire - Live at the Greek Theatre." It was cool, but it completely screamed "enlarged standard def picture."

Honestly, I'm not expecting miracles here, just something a little nicer without having to get a $200-300 Blu-ray.

One more thing. On the Vizio, I have an HD cable box (comcast), but on the Westy I have an SD box. Eventually, I'll get an HD box there too, but it's gonna take a while. I have the cable split off: one cable going to the cable box with RCA cables going to the TV, and the other cable going directly to the antenna in. I really should get component cables, but I'm trying to hold out until I get the other HD box. I was using a VGA cable from the HTPC to the Westy, but I found my DVI->HDMI adapter, so I'll just use that for the PC. The graphics card there, btw, is a Geforce 7300GS.

Please clear up my confusion. I just want the best DVD quality without getting Blu-ray.

Thanks,

Wackman

[snadge]

I dunno about the PC software - i know its available - i think lot of people use WMPC HT (Windows Media Player Classic - Home Theatre) but i cant be sure..

as for upconverting DVD player yes its possible - they have a special image processor that uses special techniques to upgrade the image and quality
Line Sharpening techniques are the most common but there are more

I have a $70 player that came no.2 in which magazine - they said its upscaling quality was that of a £200 player - its a PHILIPS DVP5980 and it delivered... my MATRIX Boxset looks awsome through it (almost HD)
ORIGINAL DVD'S are best though , while it upscales copies and DivX movies to better quality they ARENT HD (but much better)

it doesnt matter that your 32" doesnt have 1080i as its probably 768x1366 resolution anyway (cant display 1080i or 1080p)

if your 42" is 1080x1920 then you want to watch on 1080p
and 720p on your 32"

for HD it must be through an HDMI cable - from the DVD player / Cable Box (reciever)
i think with the PC/Graphics card you can use DVI/VGA

[fritzi93]

A minor correction: it's MPCHC.

I have and use an HTPC with my Vizio 42", also a Philips cheapo $40 upconverting DVD player. Output from the HTPC is at the TV's native resolution, and is better than SD from the player, but inferior to upconversion. The upconversion is distinctly superior from the player. Now some people will say that a first-class HDTV will upconvert just as well, and I have no reason to disbelieve that. But evidently my Vizio (also my Philips 47" 120hz set) don't have scalers and filters comparable to that cheap Philips DVD player.

Put it this way: play a DVD at SD and then upconverted, with my setup it's *instantly* recognizable as a big improvement, just as 720p is instantly perceived as better than the upconversion, etc. If someone says the upconversion is "near-HD", well their set must not be big enough to see the difference. How near is "near"? But it *is* way better than SD. And, as well, the better/cleaner the mastering of the DVD, the better the upconversion looks.

JMHO.

[edDV]

Hey everyone,

Last Sunday, I spent my tax return on 2 new HDTVs. I got a 42" Vizio (VO42FL) for the living room and a 32" Westinghouse (W3223) for my room. I love 'em. But, I'm confused about something and I need help.

In my room, I have this sometimes HTPC that previously, I was using to record off of cable. Instead, I'm just going to use it for playback. Anyway, I've been wanting to buy an upconverting DVD player for the living room and I want my HTPC to do the same thing.

At the store, the box of one of those DVD players says that it upconverts the DVD to full 1080p by filling in the missing pixels with a "nearest neighbor" algorithm. If that's true, couldn't that be done in software on an HTPC? Or am I just falling for the marketing hype?

Your VO42FL has a 1920x1080 LCD panel. All inputs are decoded and displayed 1920x1080p.

Your W3223 has a 1366x768 LCD panel. All inputs are decoded and displayed 1366x768p.

Picture quality depends on the quality of the source and the quality of your TV decoders and scalers. Both of the LCD-TV sets you purchased are so called "value" models that have generic decoder and scalers which aren't bad but not equal to premium or cutting edge higher end models. Connection type also influences quality but the differences between analog component and HDMI will be small. VGA connection at panel resolution puts all processing load on your computer display card.

When you connect an SD device (e.g. DVD player or SD cable box) 480i, then the TV must do the following

1. Deinterlace 480i/29.97 to 480p/59.94 or inverse telecine 480i (film source) to 480p/23.976 then frame repeat 3:2 to 59.94 fps.

2. Scale 480p/59.94 to panel resolution.

When you connect a progressive DVD player using analog component or HDMI @ 480p/59.94, deinterlace or inverse telecine is done in the player but scaling is done in the TV.

When you connect a 1080i cable source, the TV must do the following

1. Deinterlace 1080i/29.97 to 1080p/59.94 or inverse telecine 1080i (film source) to 1080p/23.976 then frame repeat 3:2 to 59.94 fps.

2. Scale 1080p/59.94 to about 5% greater than panel resolution then display the center 1920x1080 or 1366x768. This process is known as overscan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan

When you connect a progressive 720p/59.94 source using analog component or HDMI, scaling is done in the TV in a similar way with overscan.

I've heard people say that HDTVs will do the upconverting for you, or that a PC will do 10x better than a 70$ player will. I would imagine that all that would happen would be the 480p signal would just be stretched across the screen, enlarging the pixels and making the blocky picture more obvious. Is it possible to really upconvert to a 1080i/p (my Westy only does 720p)? If it's possible, I'd love to watch Star Wars in near-HD.

No. it doesn't work that way. "Stretching pixels" would only be done in older CRT HD Ready sets in 480p mode. In all cases with LCD or plasma all inputs are up or down scaled with an interpolation process sometimes with additional image processing. For example, a 720x480p input would be upscaled to about 5% more than panel resolution and the center displayed. For your Westinghouse TV, 1080i input would be deinterlaced, then down scaled to ~5% greater than 1366x768.

If you play your Star Wars DVD, maximum picture detail remains 720x480 but the upscale interpolation process will make pixel edges less visible. Image processing won't add detail but may add some sharpening or other enhancement. In fact the interpolation process may actually soften detail slightly. This all depends on the quality of the scaler in the TV.

When the Vizio was set up, we popped in a DVD: "Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire - Live at the Greek Theatre." It was cool, but it completely screamed "enlarged standard def picture."

That is what it is. If you buy a top end upscaling DVD player like the Oppo line, you may see somewhat better upscale quality vs. the more generic Vizio scaler, but you are still watching upscaled SD.

Honestly, I'm not expecting miracles here, just something a little nicer without having to get a $200-300 Blu-ray.

If you want HD, you need an HD source.

One more thing. On the Vizio, I have an HD cable box (comcast), but on the Westy I have an SD box. Eventually, I'll get an HD box there too, but it's gonna take a while. I have the cable split off: one cable going to the cable box with RCA cables going to the TV, and the other cable going directly to the antenna in. I really should get component cables, but I'm trying to hold out until I get the other HD box. I was using a VGA cable from the HTPC to the Westy, but I found my DVI->HDMI adapter, so I'll just use that for the PC. The graphics card there, btw, is a Geforce 7300GS.

It will only cost you $2-5 more per month to rent an HD box for the second TV. You will need component or HDMI cables but those are cheap online. Antenna connection may allow clearQAM reception of locals in HD but the rest will be SD.

Connection of your 7300GS can be VGA or DVI-D to HDMI. Read the manual for supported resolutions. The VGA connection may allow direct 1366x768 output. Most HDTV sets don't overscan on the VGA (PC/Game) port. Some allow turning off overscan on the HDMI port. A direct VGA 1366x768 connection will by-pass the TV deinterlacers and scalers. In this mode, all image processing and scaling is done by the display card and computer software.