How to get DVD Quality on a VHS Transfer?

[Nitro89]

hi, I've seen many released concerts onto DVD these days most probably from VHS or a Master Tape, but how do they make the Quality soo good? Is there a special software, hardware?

[mats.hogberg]

From VHS you can't. OTOH, what is "DVD quality"?

/Mats

[Nitro89]

nice sharp picture, correct colours, stereo/dolby sound

[mats.hogberg]

nice sharp picture, correct colours, stereo/dolby sound

Only thing found on VHS is stereo. The rest simply isn't there.

/Mats

[lordsmurf]

1 - Good VCR, a high-end S-VHS machine with TBC and filters.
2 - Use s-video cables through and through. No coax or composite.
3 - Buy a detailer. SignVideo, Studio1, or maybe Vidicraft. Use it to enhance edge detail.
4 - Buy a good proc amp for colors. Elite Video, SignVideo, maybe Vidicraft
5 - Audio can be done in hardware or software. I prefer software, using a mix of Goldwave and SoundForge to correct pitch, reduce hum/hiss noise, and correct any other issues.

"Most probably" in your original statement is not something to rely on. Very likely those concerts were shot on higher-end tape, like Betacam SP or S-VHS, not VHS. Unless you're referring to bootlegs, which I doubt.

Even then, a release will use higher end broadcast players with a full audio board, to achieve their quality. You can do something similar, but to a lesser extent, at home, with the 5 steps I gave.

Be prepared to spend money, a few thousand dollars minimum, which includes the aforementioned hardware, plus computer hardware and software (capture card, DVD authoring software, etc).

Since HDTV came out, the word "sharp" can mean many things, most of which are ridiculous. Compared to other VHS tapes, a VHS conversion can be very sharp with the above equipment. Comparable to other sources, like S-VHS or broadcast satellite. It won't be 1080p, but that's expected. Stay grounded in reality.

[cal_tony]

Again, a very worth while post from LS. I was hoping that after all this time the procedure might have gotten easier. Evidently not.. The real important stuff, I did years ago as best as I could at the time.I bought the SVHS, used the requisite cables and got what I got. Now, I just make sure nothing new gets onto VHS.

Tony

[edDV]

Great tips to avoid further loss from VHS recordings but you can't improve what isn't there. Lipstick up that VHS pig all you want but VHS is by definition luma chopped below 3MHz and chroma around 0.5MHz for U and V. Signal to noise is high 30's to low 40's.

S-VHS and Hi8 have more luma bandwidth so more care should be used.

[Video Head]

Remember that alot of the older source material was shot on film. And film is high quality and high resolution. Most movies are not shot on video, they are shot on film. Studios have the ability to digitize film - that's how they produce DVD movies - and can take the older productions they own and produce high quality DVD releases such as the old sitcoms from the 50's and 60's they turn into modern day cash cows. Shot on video did not exist in those days. Save for Blair Witch and Trailer Park Boys, video is still primarily in the ENG and EFP domain.

[vhelp]

Not to go too off topic here, but..

LOL, I still use my vcr to record stuff off my analog cable, in EP mode.
Course, I use my SuperVHS ET feature turned on for type of recording.
And, I use good grade (brand) vhs tape for this mode, too -- Fuji.
Anything else (brand'wise) and it will leave Speckles or Streaks in
the recordings for this EP recording mode. And, although I have
several dvd recorders, IMHO, they are not very good with my noisy
analog cabletv.

And, if you have a non - SuperVHS ET feature on your s-vhs
recorder, then you might be able to receive similar SVHS.ET if you
drill a hole through the bottom-side of the vhs tape in the same
exact spot as seen on an actual SVHS tape. Thus, it is my opinion
that the *two* methods outline here, are one in the same. That is,
that they do the same thing, record a slightely better picture by
using more lines of resolution (scanlines) internally, as used by
an actual SVHS tape.

It is because of the above that I still use my vcr and even record
in EP mode, observing the above steps, plus using a proper setup
inside the vcr's setup screen for the given tape.

Later, I filter it as best I can, and make a decent dvd out of it.

Well, that's the way I called it

-vhelp 4427

[edDV]

Remember that alot of the older source material was shot on film. And film is high quality and high resolution. Most movies are not shot on video, they are shot on film. Studios have the ability to digitize film - that's how they produce DVD movies - and can take the older productions they own and produce high quality DVD releases such as the old sitcoms from the 50's and 60's they turn into modern day cash cows. Shot on video did not exist in those days. Save for Blair Witch and Trailer Park Boys, video is still primarily in the ENG and EFP domain.

How does this relate to VHS?

Past broadcast videotape back to the 60's has greatly surpassed VHS recording quality. Any DVD creation from those original broadcast tapes (e.g. from "Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In," to "Saturday Night Live") has much higher quality than VHS.

Desi Arnez was one of the first to "film" his TV series with multiple cameras and keep the film masters. Most TV series since then have been shot in film and mastered in video. This allows remastering at higher quality as the video art advances. Yet many live performance TV shows and some series were shot in the then current SD video standard (e.g. Quadruplex, 1", TypeC, D2 and D1).

Only recently has HDTV rivaled film for TV series acquisition.

[edDV]

Later, I filter it as best I can, and make a decent dvd out of it.

Well, that's the way I called it

-vhelp 4427

That is a very valid and economical way to record video. My comments related to the difference in quality possibe for VHS to DVD vs. original film or broadcast tape masters to DVD.

Film and D1 masters can easily be remastered to high definition.

[vhelp]

Oh no.. I wasn't arguing your comments, or anyone else's. I was just
sharing some facts of what I do in my spare time and my vcr

I was gonna post a sample of something I recorded in ep mode back in
november/06 .. was the Madonna Tour, shot in PAL format. Anyway, as
it turns out, I can't seem to get a decent encode (for enough footage)
to upload and taste of the ep nonsece I was on about earlier -- just too
much noise I guess Not even worth posting on youtube, shucks!
But the mpeg-2 I originall encoded it is nice! Anyway.

-vhelp 4428

[Video Head]

Remember that alot of the older source material was shot on film. And film is high quality and high resolution. Most movies are not shot on video, they are shot on film. Studios have the ability to digitize film - that's how they produce DVD movies - and can take the older productions they own and produce high quality DVD releases such as the old sitcoms from the 50's and 60's they turn into modern day cash cows. Shot on video did not exist in those days. Save for Blair Witch and Trailer Park Boys, video is still primarily in the ENG and EFP domain.

How does this relate to VHS?

Past broadcast videotape back to the 60's has greatly surpassed VHS recording quality. Any DVD creation from those original broadcast tapes (e.g. from "Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In," to "Saturday Night Live") has much higher quality than VHS.

Desi Arnez was one of the first to "film" his TV series with multiple cameras and keep the film masters. Most TV series since then have been shot in film and mastered in video. This allows remastering at higher quality as the video art advances. Yet many live performance TV shows and some series were shot in the then current SD video standard (e.g. Quadruplex, 1", TypeC, D2 and D1).

Only recently has HDTV rivaled film for TV series acquisition.

The OP asked how they get original VHS material to look soo good when transfered to DVD. I'm suggesting that the original material is not VHS (although it was distributed in the consumer channel as such), it is in fact film or film that has been digitized....

240 line (maximum) VHS is not hard to beat. Umatic, Betacam SP and the original open reel formats used in the early days where/are far superior. No argument there.

The adoption of HD in production has been slow due to the extremely high cost of equipment.

[edDV]

The adoption of HD in production has been slow due to the extremely high cost of equipment.

Yes but HD production equipment is rapidly declining in cost and increasing in quality. First, most "reality" type TV series benefitted from HDV or DVCPRO-HD format production. Next many mainstream TV series have adopted higher end HD production based on cost or process savings vs. traditional film*. TV news is shifting from Betacam to DVCPro-HD or XDCAM-HD. George Lucas and others have adopted HD Video into their work flow for major films.

* Panavision now rents HD video production equipment or 35mm film. Your choice. http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?imgid=124&id=100&cat=36
Genesis was used for all of Apocalypto and others.
http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?cat=36&id=338
Then there is 4K Red.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/dates-announced/red-one-hd-set-for-launch-movie-makers-wet-...ves-293458.php
http://www.red.com/cameras

[lordsmurf]

The OP asked how they get original VHS material to look soo good when transfered to DVD. I'm suggesting that the original material is not VHS (although it was distributed in the consumer channel as such), it is in fact film or film that has been digitized.....

It is highly unlikely that a concert was shot to film. It would more likely have been anything from kinescopes to broadcast tape formats, depending on the age of the concerts.

[Video Head]

The OP asked how they get original VHS material to look soo good when transfered to DVD. I'm suggesting that the original material is not VHS (although it was distributed in the consumer channel as such), it is in fact film or film that has been digitized.....

It is highly unlikely that a concert was shot to film. It would more likely have been anything from kinescopes to broadcast tape formats, depending on the age of the concerts.

I wonder what was used at Woodstock...the original, not the "I've got the trash & you've got the cash" follow-up...The Who, The Beatles, The Stones. Up until the MTv revolution of the early 80's most of it looks like film to me...video killed the radio star.

[guns1inger]

The original Woodstock was shot on film, but it isn't your typical concert recording either. Specialist concert films (Woodstock, Stop Making Sense) are different to the standard concert recordings for TV or cheap money making releases.

[Video Head]

The adoption of HD in production has been slow due to the extremely high cost of equipment.

Yes but HD production equipment is rapidly declining in cost and increasing in quality. First, most "reality" type TV series benefitted from HDV or DVCPRO-HD format production. Next many mainstream TV series have adopted higher end HD production based on cost or process savings vs. traditional film*. TV news is shifting from Betacam to DVCPro-HD or XDCAM-HD. George Lucas and others have adopted HD Video into their work flow for major films.

* Panavision now rents HD video production equipment or 35mm film. Your choice. http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?imgid=124&id=100&cat=36
Genesis was used for all of Apocalypto and others.
http://www.panavision.com/product_detail.php?cat=36&id=338
Then there is 4K Red.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/dates-announced/red-one-hd-set-for-launch-movie-makers-wet-...ves-293458.php
http://www.red.com/cameras

Yes, I can currently get a JVC 3ccd unit for about $8K.

And one year ago what did a 3ccd broadcast HD cam cost?

[vhelp]

Ok. Remembering I said that this was from a vhs recording done with EP mode
set, which included my vcr's SuperVHS-ET mode..

The source is a 42 second (no sound) short clip.

So now I finally finished up on a 2 1/2+ hour filter process on this noisy
EP recorded video of Madonna's confession tour concert, as recorded back
in nov/2006, then captured and encoded mpeg-2, lost it on HDD, found it
today, vfapi'ed it over to virtualdub, then avisynth, then back over to
virtualdub, then put through an arson of ffmpeg -> flv (for youtube)
then was decided it needed some more pampering (filtering) ran yet another
though through a quick filter, finally to another new_avi, and then
ran even some more ffmpeg -> flv (for youtube) encodes, finally met up
with youtubes bitrate limit nonsense and was happy enough (by now, my
eyes are rolling out of their sockets) and I'm ready for shut-eye, though
am on last steps of uploading it to youtube (as I write this, it is 63%
finihsed) and then I want to make sure it is untouched by youtube, so I
have to download it first (else, I'll delete it if it is, cause its not
worth demoing if youtube [s:ab8392007e]screws around with it[/s:ab8392007e] re-encodes it) but
I'm quite sure it will go through untouched.

Here's how I feel 's

And now, I unvail the drooling demonstration of an vhs (EP) video recording
from my analog cabletv which was ran through various NR processes, some
of which were 2-pass applications plus several new avi's in the process
(for vhs, [in my projects] these are necessary steps) -- and my upload
is still going strong, now at 98% complete, via dial-up.., oh, and it
just completed, hehe.. now to test to see if youtube touched it.. oh,
and a quick glance at the size, and I can see.. it didn't touch it..
now I'm really happy, cause all the work paid off, hehe..

Thus, here's the result of all that crazy work:





Thats the way called it. And good night

From the Video Workstation of,
-vhelp 4429

[oldandinthe way]

A lot of early concert footage was shot on film. Bootlegs on 16mm film as well as more professional equipment. Soundtracks for bootlegs were often recorded on hidden Nagras.

16mm cameras were higher quality, lighter and more available than VHS cameras for many years.

Don't assume a concert was recorded on VHS unless the quality is so low it could only be VHS,

[Nitro89]

how can you get hold of these official unreleased recorded concert footage

[edDV]

how can you get hold of these official unreleased recorded concert footage

Hire an agent? Money talks to unlock those vaults.

[guns1inger]

Send lawyers, guns and money

[edDV]

The agent's role is to smooth talk the deal. Guns and lawyers come next during contract negotiation..

[thecoalman]

Further off topic and not video but you can get legal audio here for nearly every act that ever made it big spanning the 60's to the 80's (Allman Brothers, U2, Black Sabbath, VH etc): http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/

Hundreds of streamed concerts free and some are available for price DRM free. If you look around you'll find their intention is to release all of those concerts and I've also read eventually in lossless format. It's a hidden gem.

[edDV]

Further off topic and not video but you can get legal audio here for nearly every act that ever made it big spanning the 60's to the 80's (Allman Brothers, U2, Black Sabbath, VH etc): http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/

Hundreds of streamed concerts free and some are available for price DRM free. If you look around you'll find their intention is to release all of those concerts and I've also read eventually in lossless format. It's a hidden gem.

Wow! Thanks for that link.

[thecoalman]

Something isn't it, there was a lot of legal papers flying when it went online.


Jefferson Airplane
Winterland
San Francisco, CA
10/07/1966
Tracks: 7
Total Time: 39:04
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=118|3230

The Who
Fillmore East
New York, NY
04/06/1968
Tracks: 12
Total Time: 57:15
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=426|7962

Led Zeppelin
Fillmore West
San Francisco, CA
01/11/1969
Tracks: 5
Total Time: 33:27
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=667|4017



Jimi Hendrix Experience
Winterland
San Francisco, CA
10/11/1968
Early Show
Tracks: 6
Total Time: 56:28
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=582|9960


Pink Floyd
Fillmore West
San Francisco, CA
04/29/1970
Tracks: 10
Total Time: 2:10:32
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=1143|5541

A make you fall off your seat kind of list.... Doesn't appear many major acts are available for direct download, I did see Fleetwood Mac concerts listed.

[olyteddy]

A make you fall off your seat kind of list.... Doesn't appear many major acts are available for direct download, I did see Fleetwood Mac concerts listed.

But the streaming quality is quite good...Capturing and transcoding using TotalRecorder creates ~203 Kb VBR MP3 files...

[edDV]

... make you fall off your seat kind of list.... Doesn't appear many major acts are available for direct download, I did see Fleetwood Mac concerts listed.

I notice they have some of the KSAN-FM Record Plant live recordings from the 70's. I have many of those I recorded on reel-to-reel tape from the original FM broadcasts.