VCD better than svcd?? way better?

[sean madison]

hey, i just ripped gone in 60 seconds and encoded to vcd and here is why-

I was puting it on 1 cd ok

I tried svcd and usin cbr.
I was think about puttin it in svcd on 2 cds usin 1700 cbr.
When i encoded it in svcd and played back, there were interlaced noise all in the video where motion was moving and when high motion, it was TERRIBLE!!

I followed sefy by encoding it to vcd at only 850 cbr and the quality has NO blocks and no interlaced problems!!
The source res is 720x480 and i used the same settings as i used in svcd for vcd.

Why does vcd at 850 look excellent in terms of motion compared to svcd at 1700???

Svcd when not in motion was SO crisp with exception of interlaced noise.
I want to have a svcd rip but what is goin on here?

[adam]

In your two encodes you have produced neither a vcd nor a svcd. The real comparison you are making is between mpeg1 and mpeg2 and the difference in quality you are perceiving can only be accredited to errors in your encoding process.

The mpeg1 did not have any interlacing issues because mpeg1 does not support interlacing. Had you encoded your mpeg2 file correctly you would not have experienced any of these interlacing problems but without ANY info regarding your source and conversion process it is impossible to tell what you did wrong.

Another factor contributing to why your mpeg2 file appears to look worse than your mpeg1 file is due to the extremely low bits per pixel you are using. 720x480 is a huge resolution to use for such low bitrate and at 1700 cbr, your mpeg2 file is starving for bitrate during high movement. Though your mpeg1 has even less bitrate to work with, mpeg1 encoders are generally optimized to encode in relatively low bitrate whereas mpeg2 encoders are optimized for high bitrates.

[sean madison]

im usin a d2v project file

I followed sefy's guide word for word except used svcd instead of vcd.

I encode other movies such as dvd rips in avi in svcd and it has no problems with quality even at bitrates as low as 850 but remember, im talkin bout xsvcd, not svcd standard.

This interlace noise quality only happens when encoding from a d2v file.

Im sure someone has done this before hopefully on a bitrate under 2000 and knows what im talkin about.

I was talkin to someone who had same problem too but he has no idea.
We are just stickin with vcd for right now.

Now, one quick little note thats weird too-

When i encode a d2v file usin svcd standard temp, it looks perfect cuz bitrate is high.
If i take the svcd mpg i just encoded, reencode usin that mpg at a bitrate of 1000, and no lower, the quality doesnt suffer.

[chjan]

First, Are you sure the Gone in 60 sec is Interlace?
I have ripped it 7-8 months ago, it's a film progressive DVD.
I could fit it to 2 cd standard SVCD with every good quality.
You don't need to do XVCD or XSVCD just standard should be enough.

BTW, I use: dvd2avi->vfapi->vb(resize 480x480)->cce(vbr 3-pass)
I'm sorry I could not remember the bitrate I used...

I'm sure SVCD is much better than VCD if the sources are good like DVDs.

[bewley]

Sorry, there are two things I am not sure about in your original post. What exactly is "interlaced noise" and what size are you encoding your destination MPEG's to? (As I understand it, 720x480 is the source)

1. If you are getting "jerky" looking video on your SVCD, try flipping the field order on the Settings | Advanced tab. If it is set to "Bottom field first" try going with "Top field first".

2. If you are getting "combing" and you are using NTSC Film, then you are hitting regular NTSC frames. You could try resaving you DVD2AVI project to 29.976 frames or set the deinterlace the video filter.

Of course, neither of these problems appear in VCD's as the output in non-interlaced.

So far I have done about 50 movies to SVCD (352x480) and only one required solution #2. My SVCD's are usually much better than my VCD's (when viewed on a TV) and look much sharper. IMHO.

Good luck,

[sean madison]

i use 480x480 for svcd.

I mean by interlace noise is it is not blocks,
it's like color noise. Like it gets all fuzzy like u have no cable for split seconds in colors of green purple gray. not color blocks, like u got no cable and that static color is green purple and gray.
It only shows up when picture moves

[bewley]

OK...

I have no idea as I have never seen this before.

Sorry I couldn't be of help.

[speedy]

I wouldn't call myself a video performance master if you still haven't grasped the difference between bitrate and frame size. There is little if anything to be gained encoding at 720x480 while using a comparatively low bitrate. Have you tried rendering at 480x480 assuming NTSC?

The debate over VCD verses SVCD will never be resolved to a single recommendation. Unless we all stick to the same source file, use the same codec, encode with the same encoder at the same bitrate, frame size, rate and then play it on the same DVD player. If you don't then results will vary.

For most projects VCD is fine, assuming a decent source file. For special projects you may want to try SVCD or X.... What I do in those times is pick several 30 second spans of video, create a test file from that, then burn on a CD-RW using various schemes and see which one plays best. Sometimes the results are surprising.

[sean madison]

your funny

I am new to dvd ripping, thats why im askin questions

Anything else, i am an expert at maintaining quality at low bitrates even at 750.

And of course, u wouldnt believe me so i gotta send u a sample.
Well sure, u want samples?

IM on aim- shizzzon

[sean madison]

And speedy, who said anything about encoding at a res of 720x480?

I said my source is 720x480 and i am using the standard res for svcd standard(IE- 480x480, duh)

Try and get your facts straight before commenting on someone about something u think they stupid on when u cant even read.

[adam]

Well thats what you get when ask a question regarding your encoding methods without even telling us what your methods are. If you look at my original post you'll see that I also thought you were using 720x480 for your output, since thats what your original post seems to imply.

Obviously svcds arent supposed to have giant green and purple blocks on them so obviously there is something wrong with your process. Since you havent given us any real info about your source or how your encoding it then I don't see how anyone can resolve your problem.

When you load your vobs in dvd2avi and preview it, what does it say? Are you using forced film or is it interlaced? are you encoding in 23.976 with the 3:2 pulldown or are you keeping it interlaced at 29.97? Give us SOMETHING to work with.

[sean madison]

interlaced 29.97 fps

i ripped with smartripper

i go by sefy guides word for word except usin svcd instead of vcd.

[chjan]

Hi,

Thanks Adam,

That's what I want to said. When asking for help you should make everthing clear which somebody could understand correctly and could help. A year ago I was here and I got a lot of helps for people right here.
I disapeared for a while and came back this month a lot of things chnaged. Some question never should be asked but be here.......Like who should be a moderator???


Well, maybe it's little change but I just jumped back from a big time, so I feel..


For you, sean madison, I think you should follow Adam, Check first what is your source, NTSC 29.97 or Film 23.97.

Like said prev. I believe Gone 60s was 23.97, so when you save project in DVD2AVI, select force film, then encode with 23.97 with 3:2 pulldown in TMPGEnc or Progressive in CCE. There are guides that will help at the left menu. or go to doom9.net...

Hope this help...