Suggestions on best bang for buck TV (HDTV) for secondary room?

[rbatty11]

Was hoping I could get some recommendations on a HDTV for 2nd bedroom (likely an LCD). Will be watching a little satellite TV on it and may consider upgrading to HD satellite in near-future. I've got an existing 32" Sony tube in there now so would be looking at 27" or 32" 16:9 TV. Not sure if i can get anything of value for ~$4-500, which is approx. what I'm willing to spend. Not sure if that's unrealistic. Looks like LCD is probably best choice(?). Thanks.

Edit: Any opinions on this:

http://www.geeks.com/pix/2007/SAVE100LP.html?cm_mmc=geekmail-_-daily_html-_-20mar07_Ho..._-Hotdealsmain

[sanlyn]

If you're looking for the best picture, LCD is not your best choice. Stick with CRT. In fact, stay with your current Sony. Why do you want to pay for all that extra "detail" thru your HD provider and then filter out half of it with an LCD?

No way you're getting a decent LCD at the price you mention. There are cheap ones, but they'll look worse than what you're using now, even if what you have is analog.

[rbatty11]

I'm giving my 32' sony tube to my nephew who wants/needs it. I was just trying to skimp by on something for my 2nd room without spending too much (HD of course). I looked for a ~27" HD tube but didn't find one for that price range. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[sanlyn]

One of the only smallish (26") HDTV I know of that has anything like the quality you suggest (and it has exceptional quality) is Toshiba's 26HF66. It is a CRT that handles HDTV and SDTV equally well, which no low-cost LCD can possibly do. I've seen it selling for $479. It is 16:9. b&h in NY sells it at that price, and B&H is a highly respected source. A neighbor bought one a few months ago. Really terrific performance, I almost bought one myself but couldn't get up $480 and I already have a 32".

I'm failry certain that hi-end a/v shops carry quality CRT's, but there aren't any competent ones either HDTV or SDTV at that price range. The usual sources (bestBuy, etc.) all have LCD's, but no LCD under $1000 is going to give decent performance unless you can find a smaller Sharp Aquos on sale, but they are no longer made. They were selling for $900 or so, and they were about the cheapest HDTv-LCD that offered a good image.

Toshiba is nice stuff, always has been. I recall consumer reports thought this model to be quite good. Samsung and Sansui makes CRT's in the $600 range, but they can't beat the 26" Toshiba.

[sanlyn]

Frankly, it just doesn't look as if LCD technology in its current state is going to be as good as CRT unless LCD engineers can buck a few of the laws of physics. I'm an old Technicolor movie and photography fan, and if you ever see how even a "good" LCD can screw up Technicolor, you'll know what I mean. I'll take a good smallish CRT for $500 before I'd accept an average LCD at twice the price. True, CRT's have size and weight against them, but 26" ain't all that big and you can't beat the image.

Another neighbor of mine still uses his analog Sony WEGA CRT (non-HDTV) with his subsription to HDTV cable. He downsamples, of course, but his experience is that a really good analog CRT still looks better than, or just as good as, a second-rate LCD. I've watched his set often and I agree. Anyway, HDTV is going to change so much over the next 3-4 years, it's just not worth spending the bucks to keep up until digital settles down. I still have a highly-rated 27" Toshiba in another room, and every time someone visits they see it and ask where I bought the "new HDTV" with such a great picture. When I answer that it's a 5-year old analog CRT, their mouths drop. No way I'm ever getting rid of that set.

On the other hand, LCD is your only choice if size is the primary conern. There are plenty of smallish LCD HDTV's around at your price, but don't expect that much from the image.

[Jim44]

I've been pretty happy with my Westinghouse 27" LTV-27w2 in the bedroom. It was $899 when I bought it 1-1/2 years ago - I think the latest generation ones are in the $600-$700 range.

It replaced a 21" tube, and I just wanted something with decent performance.

My 2 cents,
Jim

[zzyzzx]

It seems to be getting hard not to buy a LCD TV since the retailers and manufacturers are pushing them. I'd love to see a 20" or 23" CRT type HDTV, but I haven't seen one yet (with a built in tuner, of course).

[gshelley61]

I'm giving my 32' sony tube to my nephew who wants/needs it. I was just trying to skimp by on something for my 2nd room without spending too much (HD of course). I looked for a ~27" HD tube but didn't find one for that price range. Any suggestions? Thanks.

There are a number of smaller SDTV tube TV's out on the market now with built in ATSC digital tuners. You might also look into the 30" widescreen CRT tube HDTV sets that are still available.

[gshelley61]

It seems to be getting hard not to buy a LCD TV since the retailers and manufacturers are pushing them. I'd love to see a 20" or 23" CRT type HDTV, but I haven't seen one yet (with a built in tuner, of course).

Here's a 20" Toshiba CRT with both ATSC/QAM and NTSC tuners plus a built in DVD player...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889253077&ATT=89-253-077&CMP=OTC-Froogle

[edDV]

Using Best Buy as a source, here are some CRT options

SD 27" 4:3 Digital TV with ATSC over the air tuner $249
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8205765&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1165610666527

HD 30" 16:9 Digital TV with ATSC over the air tuner $522
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7600955&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1130981752759

A better brand
HD 27" 4:3 Digital TV with ATSC over the air tuner $550
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7706921&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1138085846523

HD 30" 16:9 Digital TV with ATSC over the air tuner $700
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7908062&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1149207784284

There are many others.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat95100050007&type=category

Compare these in the store with LCD for SD 480i reception (the bulk of your satellite reception). The Samsungs look good on specs (inverse telecine, etc.). I haven't looked at them. Read reviews and user experiences. They will all look pretty good for DVD and HDTV, 480i is the tough test.

[gshelley61]

If you can find one of these somewhere on close out special, this Sony 30" 16:9 tube HDTV was the last widescreen consumer model they built with their Super Fine Pitch CRT... it has a special high resolution aperture grill that results in a much more detailed picture.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KD-30XS955-Trinitron-WEGA-HDTV/dp/B0006435AM

[edDV]

If you can find one of these somewhere on close out special, this Sony 30" 16:9 tube HDTV was the last widescreen consumer model they built with their Super Fine Pitch CRT... it has a special high resolution aperture grill that results in a much more detailed picture.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-KD-30XS955-Trinitron-WEGA-HDTV/dp/B0006435AM

I've seen these in Sony outlets and recently saw one last week in Sunnyvale, CA Fry's on red tag ~$700. I was so tempted but was driving a 2 seat sports car that trip.

158 pounds requires two to carry. There is also a 34" version that seems twice as heavy.

[edDV]

A warning on CRT sets. They aren't always delivered with acceptable alignment.

Use your Visa/Master Charge and challenge payment if the TV isn't in convergence, linearity and color balance spec. My Philips arrived DOA out of the box. I insisted on a factory service center repair and let them know I would be using a full set of test signals to evaluate the set before releasing Visa payment. The 'demo" loaner showed severe convergenge issues. My set arrived a few weeks later in perfect alignment.

[rbatty11]

A lot of info, thanks. More i think about it, I do want to stick with a CRT. My main is a Sony 34XBR910 w/super fine pitch and I love it! sanlyn's suggestion on this one looks pretty interesting. Any other reviews on this one??: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=2147&A=details&Q=&sku=419043&is=REG&...goryNavigation

But gshelley's suggestion on looking for closeout on a Sony 30" w/SFP looks even more enticing but almost 2x my budget.. damn. Maybe give it a try anyway. Btw, do these come in 27"?

[edDV]

Btw, do these come in 27"?

No but a 27" 16:9 would be too small. 27" 4:3 is OK for a bedroom.

[MJA]

HANNspree Xv 32 inch Widescreen LCD HDTV

http://www.buy.com/prod/HANNspree_Xv_32_inch_Widescreen_LCD_HDTV/q/loc/58207/204042780...tml?adid=17662

[sanlyn]

Btw, do these come in 27"?

No but a 27" 16:9 would be too small. 27" 4:3 is OK for a bedroom.

True, a 27" 16:9 or the 26" Toshiba 16:9 I mentioned is "smaller" than a 4:3 27" screen.
They'd both have about the same width, but the 16:9 doesn't have the same height as the 4:3. On the other hand, a 16:9 would fill the entire screen with a wide-screen picture source, but a 4:3 would letterbox wide screen sources. Looks like six of one and a half-dozen of the other.

In either case, the original post implies that a 34" CRT is now in that room. Mm. That's a pretty big set for a bedroom (or else it's a pretty big bedroom to begin with). There's nothing like seeing the set in person to get an idea of the differences -- on paper the mumbers themselves don't look that different. Anyway, there's a price point to consider: a couple of inches in screen size can easily double the price.

[edDV]

Btw, do these come in 27"?

No but a 27" 16:9 would be too small. 27" 4:3 is OK for a bedroom.

True, a 27" 16:9 or the 26" Toshiba 16:9 I mentioned is "smaller" than a 4:3 27" screen.
They'd both have about the same width, but the 16:9 doesn't have the same height as the 4:3. On the other hand, a 16:9 would fill the entire screen with a wide-screen picture source, but a 4:3 would letterbox wide screen sources. Looks like six of one and a half-dozen of the other.

Except that the bulk of material viewed will be from 4:3 480i satellite (full and some letterbox) so the 4:3 27" would give a larger picture most of the time.

It would take a 42" 16:9 display to match the 4:3 size of a 34".

See this calculator. The results are surprising.
http://www.tvcalculator.com/

[edDV]

26" 16:9 vs 34" 4:3 is tiny.

[Timoleon]

Roy, (if I may be so bold)

My money is on a Toshiba CRT. The Toshiba tubes have an excellent reputation going back the last five years or so --- I love mine! Just be aware that a 27" CRT is the biggest size you'll be able to muscle around by yourself. A 32" CRT would put you in the hospital, unless you are a freakazoid or something

[MOVIEGEEK]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7908062&type=product&productCategoryId=p...=1149207784284

That Samsung has an amazing picture,I was going to buy it but it was too small for my living room but for a bedroom it would be perfect.

[MJA]

Samsung SlimFit got alot of bad reviews .my friends TV didn't last 3 months

[MOVIEGEEK]

Samsung SlimFit got alot of bad reviews .my friends TV didn't last 3 months

Good thing I didn't buy it.

[edDV]

Here is a comparison of 27" 16:9 vs. 27" 4:3 with a 4:3 program (typical satellite).
The 4:3 set gives the larger picture.


With a 16x9 source, the 16x9 set gives the larger picture. Most 4:3 sets side crop 16:9 a bit to give more vertical height.

[rbatty11]

Changed my mind, not buying anything. jk . Good info to consider. Thanks to all.

sanlyn, the set I have in the br is a 4:3 32" sony crt (the one i'd like to replace). My main in living room is the 34" 16:9 sony xbr910 (keeping). After mulling all of this, think the smallest I'd go is the 26" toshiba, which does seem like a very good deal (albeit, a very small 4:3 viewing area). I'm guessing it has a zoom feature. I did consider that slim Samsung but read some very bad reviews.
Hmm. Don't know what to do.

Question: In reading some of the above, I don't get it: what's the difference between a SD Digital TV with ATSC tuner and a HDTV?? I thought ATSC tuner can allow HD viewing (OTA?). If a TV can project HD, isn't it a HDTV?

[edDV]

Question: In reading some of the above, I don't get it: what's the difference between a SD Digital TV with ATSC tuner and a HDTV?? I thought ATSC tuner can allow HD viewing (OTA?). If a TV can project HD, isn't it a HDTV?

HD refers to the TV's display resolution and to the resolution of the broadcast. As for the TV, any display resolution above 720x480 is considered by the industry a HDTV. CRT HDTV's usually offer between 800x600 to 1280x1080 in CRT resolution. Plasmas, LCD's today usually fall between 1366x768 and 1920x1080.

As for digital broadcasts, 720x480i 4:3 (full or letterbox) is typical for SD. HD is offered as 1280x720p (ABC, FOX, ESPN) or 1920x1080i (the rest of them).

With an ATSC tuner, you can tune any of the SD or HD OTA digital channels. The TV converts all of them to the native display resolution of the TV. If the TV is a 4:3 standard TV, 1920x1080 or 1280x720 get displayed as letterboxed 480i. A large HD CRT will display it as ~ 960x1080i and an HD LCD will typically display it as 1366x768p. Check the TV specs for native display resolution.

Screen size is measured diagonally.

[gshelley61]

Question: In reading some of the above, I don't get it: what's the difference between a SD Digital TV with ATSC tuner and a HDTV?? I thought ATSC tuner can allow HD viewing (OTA?). If a TV can project HD, isn't it a HDTV?

The difference is that a SD digital tube TV displays 480 interlaced scan lines. In other words, the picture tube in SDTV's are the same types that has been used for traditional NTSC televisions. HD programs are therefore downscaled to 480i for display on SDTV's.

HDTV displays have either 720 progressive scan lines or 1080 interlaced (or progressive) scan lines. Tube HDTV's are typically 1080i but their actual display resolution capability is limited by the shadow mask (or aperture grill) dot pitch. The size of the dots (or slits in the case of an aperture grill) determine maximum viewable resolution. The highest resolution widescreen tube HDTV was the 34" Sony models with the Super Fine Pitch aperture grill. They can display up to about 1400 lines of resolution. Most tube HDTV's are capable of displaying between 600 and 1000 lines (far less than the 1920 pixels in 1080i HD content, obviously).

[Leoslocks]

Best Buy has two different Samgsung 30" slim fit CRT's. Both have been as low as $600 US. Currently at $650.

TX-S3082WH
1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
117.3 lbs.

TX-S3080WHX
130.1 lbs.

How would the 1920 x 1080 resolution compare with the 4:3. 30" TV 1024 x 768?

[edDV]

Best Buy has two different Samgsung 30" slim fit CRT's. Both have been as low as $600 US. Currently at $650.

TX-S3082WH
1920 x 1080 pixel resolution
117.3 lbs.

TX-S3080WHX
130.1 lbs.

How would the 1920 x 1080 resolution compare with the 4:3. 30" TV 1024 x 768?

1920x1080 refers to incoming video not display resolution. The only reference to display resolution on that TX-S3082WH page is "Vertical Scanning Lines (Native Mode) 720"

This defined by Best Buy as
"Vertical_Scanning_Lines The number of vertical scan lines determines the capability to produce a detailed image. The larger the number of vertical scan lines, the more detailed the image. The three vertical scan line systems used in digital TV are 480p (480 lines vertically scanned in a progressive fashion), 720p (720 lines vertically scanned in a progressive fashion), and 1080i (1,080 lines scanned in an interlaced fashion)."

If that TV does display 720 vertical lines as opposed to just scanning 720*, then horizontal resolution will be on the order of 600 "lines of horizontal resolution" or equivalent of ~800x720 or better.

The TX-S3080WHX 16:9 is listed to have 1080 vertical lines. It may scan 1080 lines but the shadow mask probably limits displayed resolution to about 800x600 to 960x600. Look close and see if scan lines are visible. Usually you will just see the shadow mask dots.

To test it you would need to feed test charts over the analog component Y or the HDMI connection (VGA would be easier if it had VGA). First it would have to max out this chart.
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/respat/eia1956-small.jpg
I'd bet it doesn't.


* displaying 720 lines means you would see scan lines from a close viewing distance. Check this out in the store. If you don't see the actual scan lines from an HD source, the CRT shadow mask allows less than 720 lines to be displayed.

[gll99]

In the Canadian Sears catalogue there is a Toshiba plasma tv 42" model xga 1024 x 768. It is said to be 720p scanning rate and 768 lines of resolution.

Is xga resolution 1024 x 768 really 720p and HD or is it really only 480i or 480p.

Or is it really 720p but in a 4:3 aspect ratio as opposed to the similar 50" said to be 1366 x 768 wxga 16:9 aspect ratio?