Pioneer 533 DVD-R Burning Problem/Question

[tcfrerich]

I have a 533 that I have been burning DVD-R's with. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. It seems when I get 1 successful burn, I can get 4-5, then it just gives me the "Cannot Complete Copy" error. When it won't work, it won't work on a bunch - which is certainly a waste!

It seems like it has a mind of its own. One night it will work, next night it won't. I am thinking this is an burner problem? Because I have tried using Memorex x16, Office Depot x16 and at some point or another either will work one night and not the next.

Is this a x16 speed issue? I don't seem to think so because sometimes I can get successful burns.

If anyone has found a brand that seems to work better, please let me know. I haven't seen any x8 around in a while.

Any help would be appreciated!

[orsetto]

I have experienced this with several Pioneer 531-533-633 recorders I've owned or serviced. What you have here are two separate possibilities and worst case they are combined together:

1. The media you are using is not compatible with your 533. The burner in the 533 was designed for media formulations available in 2004/2005. The media you are now using is the latest revision of CMC. CMC now makes most of the discs for Staples, OfficeDepot, OfficeMax, TDK, some Maxell, etc. A few months ago they changed their dye slightly and it stopped being compatible with the Pioneer 531-533-633 series (as you've seen, random successes followed by a string of bad burns). New CMC even gives me problems with my Pioneer 111 PC burner, which can usually burn just about any damned thing. So step one, buy some Verbatim discs or if you see them on sale, Sony DVD-R (if the wrapper says "made in Taiwan", don't buy if it says "Sony Malaysia"). If you don't mind buying online, also try some Taiyo Yuden 8x Premium DVD-R: these ALWAYS work in a Pioneer.

2. Your burner laser may be failing, and the more you force it to burn incompatible media the sooner it will die completely. The 531-533-633 is less picky about media than some other recorders but it REALLY does not like current CMC-made DVD-R: the laser is worked hard with it, and if you listen closely you'll hear all kinds of mechanical adjustments going on as the burner struggles to to successfully complete the burn. Not good.

Short answer: switch to another media brand IMMEDIATELY. Give your leftover OfficeDepot or Memorex disks to someone with a newer recorder or burn them on a PC with a newer burner that can handle them with ease.

[tcfrerich]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I will switch. Do the Sony's (made in Taiwan) need to be x8 or can they be 16x?



I saw some Sony's at Walmart before I posted this. I will go back and see where they are made.

Thanks again! Will post back with what I find for future help for others if needed.

[orsetto]

Do the Sony's (made in Taiwan) need to be x8 or can they be 16x?

The 16x works fine in the 531-533-633. (The 8x is excellent but discontinued, if you see it, buy it.) Just make sure wrapper says "Taiwan" and not "Malaysia". You may not be able to find small packages of the Taiwan anymore: last I checked, Sony only distributes their Taiwan media in 100-count spindles. Check Staples for weekly sales, I've been stocking up on 100-paks when I see them for $22.98.

[wabjxo]

I got some Sony +R 16x at Wal-Mart and the media code is "fake Sony" per digitalfaq.com. It's just "SONY" whereas true Sony media should have an alpha-numeric code after the SONY. Just a heads-up.

The only "sure" way to eliminate a media problem is get Taiyo Yuden Premium 8X from supermediastore.com or rima.com, or find some Verbatim 8X locally.

[orsetto]

I got some Sony +R 16x at Wal-Mart and the media code is "fake Sony" per digitalfaq.com. It's just "SONY" whereas true Sony media should have an alpha-numeric code after the SONY. Just a heads-up.

Good point. I do periodically check the spindles of Sony Taiwan DVD-R that I get from Staples, so far they all confirm OK using the DVD Info Pro utility which identifies them as SONY (DAXON) with a string of numbers. I have compared the readout with some older Sony 8x I still had from last year and the ID is similar aside form the speed rating.

Anything goes at Wal*Mart: in order to meet their crushingly low price guidelines, I'm sure Sony would look the other way while farmers made the discs from rice cakes, just as long as they got the Sony brand name onto WM shelves. Sad.

[tcfrerich]

Thanks guys for the replies. I am learning alot about media in the few posts I've read here.

Another question/comment.

I stopped by a local mom/pop electronics store and they had some Sony -R "Made in Japan" 16x, with the AccuCore label on them. Bought 2 of them to try - didn't say Tawain, but also didn't say Malaysa - so thought I would give them a run down....They were $2/each - about par for this place, but couldn't get to a WalMart and needed to free up some HD space last night.

Anyway, they both worked. Not going to keep buying them at $2/ea, but they got me out of a pinch. Will try WalMart today for the other Sony's I saw, which leads me to the questions below...

1. Where do you see the Sony{w/ code} on the label - or do you? I looked on center of DVD, label, etc. but couldn't find it anywhere. There was a code DMR47L4 on the label, but it wasn't near or "after Sony" like that digitalFAQ blank media guide showed.

2. That DVDinfoPro - I guess you put a blank DVD in you burner, and it reads all the "specs" on the DVD??? Does this mean you have to buy a pack, just to "sample?"

Ordering the Taiyo Yuden 8x Premium DVD-R today....Supermedia store had a them w/ FREE ground shipping. What is the difference between the Retail Pack and the Taped up Spindle - price doesn't seem too different. With the Retail Pack, do you get the jewel cases or just fancier wrapping?

Thanks again!

[wabjxo]

I can read the mfgrs ID (MID) in my Philips 3575. I assume your DVDinfopro will do the same and, yes, you have to buy a small qty and test, then hope a larger qty from same place w/same pkging will be made by same people... like going to Vegas!

The fake Sony I have don't have anything code-like on the hub... just "DVD+R Ver 1.3/1x - 16x" and "Sony Corporation." My fakes were made in Taiwan.

The ones you found made in Japan with a code-like number on the hub sound like a real-deal and should be good, but your SW should tell the story.

Once you start with your T-Y 8X Premium, you should be OK. I've only read recently of a problem with one (?) batch of T-Ys.

[tcfrerich]

T-Y ordered!!!!!! Can't get here soon enough!

One more thing.....Which brand of -RW would be good. Same problem as the -R ?

I edit some things using the -RW which you can't do with Hard Drive alone on the 533 - i.e. move chapters around.

I had good luck w/ one Off Depot -RW a few weeks ago. The pack is at least 1 year old - bought them "way back when" and never used, so they may have the "old CMC technology?"

Hate to try and then mess the burner up even more like orsetto mentioned.

Thanks again for all quick replies!

[orsetto]

Re the leftover OfficeDepot -RW: if these have been CONSISTENTLY burning OK for you, then they are older discs and you can continue using them. BUT: if they have been giving you the same problems as the single-layer OfficeDepot DVD-R you complained of (random success followed by a string of failures) then dump them and get some Verbatim DVD-R/W instead. No more "store-brands" going forward- stick to TY, Verbatim, or Sony Taiwan (for as long as its still available).

[bnbhoha]

just go to bestbuy and buy some Verbatim dvd-r media. Can't go wrong.

[tcfrerich]

Well the T-Y's worked. Had 1 or 2 in the 15 I burned, so there probably is an issue w/ my burner. Seems that it does a better job if I don't tell it to Finalize during the Copy process, but when Copy Complete I go to Disc Setup and Finalize through this option.

BUT, another problem - last night was doing this, selected the movies to burn, named the disc, Finalize OFF, Start Copy, come back about 30 min later and the DVR power is OFF! First time this has happened. uhoh

Turn it back on, and go to Finalize the disc (like I have been doing before), but once I get tot the screen to choose the template, it "locks up" and takes about 10 sec for a command to respond - i.e. push ENTER and it takes about 10 sec to start finalizing. I let it finalize for about 30 min and it was still hadn't gotten to the "progress bar", so I canceled the finalize.

Here is the problem now..... When I put a new/blank T-Y in the burner to start another burn, it has a "V" on the LCD screen. Looking at the manual, this means I have an "Unfinalized disk" in the burner! So now it won't even recognize that there is a blank disk - when I go to Copy, and choose my movie(s) it won't show me the DVD Disk Space Remaining bar at the bottom b/c it doesn't recognize the disk!

Should I put the disk that is finalized back in and let it see if it will finalize overnight? Maybe that would fix it? I know the problem occurred when it shut off during/after copy, but before finalize. It has somehow "lost it's brains and I don't know how to "reboot or reset"!!!

HELP if possible! Thanks in advance!

Toby

[orsetto]

A Pioneer will eventually power down about 30 mins after a copy activity if it is not told to do anything further, this is not unusual. But your burning and disc recognition problems are not normal. Since you have the manual, check near the back for instructions how to "reset" the recorder (I think you need to hold down the stop and power buttons until it reboots but don't remember for sure, I know it is in the manual somewhere near the end.)

If this does not help, there are two probable issues: you may have not actually received "premium" TY discs from SuperMediaStore- if they arrived taped up they are likely TY "value line" which have been rejected as not meeting "premium" standards. If they arrived in a hard-shell plastic cakebox, they are probably TY Premium, which ALWAYS burns well. If you confirm your discs are premium, then your burner may finally be dying (it is due- most original 531 burners last no more than 18 months).

You can try a DVD lens cleaning disc, this does help some people keep burning for awhile. But if it doesn't work, I'm afraid you'll need a new burner. You will need to find a working Pioneer 109 burner and swap some of its parts with the original 531 burner, and you will need the same "service remote" and "service disc" that is required for replacing the HDD. If all this becomes necessary, and you don't want to do it yourself, PM me.

Before you do anything else, see if you can get a small pak of Verbatim DVD-R at a store and try to burn those. If you are really lucky, a dying burner will still work well with a limited number of brands for a while longer, perhaps up to 100 more discs. Try Verbatim or Sony before giving up on the burner altogether. Buy from a store that has a no questions asked return policy (Staples, OfficeMax) so if it turns out the burner is dead you can get a refund on the test discs.

[tcfrerich]

On the reset button, does it wipe out the HDD files?

The T-Y's I got were a 100 pack and they came in 4 separate square boxes. Thanks for the help.

[tcfrerich]

Looking to make sure I bought the Premiums, I noticed this:


This is what I bought and it had "Premium" in the description:

Taiyo Yuden Premium White Inkjet Hub Printable 8X DVD-R Media 4.7GB in Retail Box (Free Ground Shipping)

http://supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-white-inkjet-hub-printable-8x-dvd-r-media-retai...-cake-box.html


I just now saw these and noticed it has "Premium" PLUS "Premium Line" in the description

Taiyo Yuden Premium Silver Thermal Lacquer 8X DVD-R Media (Premium Line) 100 Pack in Cake Box

http://supermediastore.com/taiyo-yuden-silver-thermal-8x-dvd-r-media-100-pack.html



Question: did I buy the wrong "Premium" ones?

Thanks,
Toby

[orsetto]

Resetting the recorder will not wipe out any shows you have on the hard drive, but you might need to adjust the TV Guide a bit. Those discs sound OK so the burner may be on its way out- try other brands like I suggested above to see if the laser has enough juice to burn any of them for awhile longer. Keep the TY discs for future use- they are the best available.

[tcfrerich]

thanks.....ran across town to best buy at lunch and found some Sony Tawains and also Verbatims.... here's to crossed fingers working! thanks for all your help...

hopefully i won't have to PM you cause it means the worst!

[tcfrerich]

orsetto,

Well, I'm back.....

Switch to the Verbatim -R and it lasted for about 100 more discs.

Now it looks like it is dead in the water.... Conistently getting the "Cannot Complete Copy" error.

I guess my options are:

1. Fix this one - suggestions on approx cost, how much work, etc.

2. Buy a new one - suggestions on brand, model, etc. to get one with similar features?

Thanks for the help,
Toby

[orsetto]

I'd say the burner is finally shot- if it won't burn TY 8x, its a lost cause. You can attempt a DIY burner replacement, this works in 75% of the 531-533-633s I've serviced, but you have to be willing/able to perform minor disassembly of the recorder and be willing to risk about $40-50 in parts costs for the replacement burner. If the burner replacement doesn't "take", you could always re-sell the burner or use it in a PC, but its still a small financial gamble. If your budget is really tight and you can't afford to take risks, you're better off just putting that $40-50 toward buying a new recorder. The closest you can get to your 531 would be a global-market multiregion Pioneer 560 or 660. These are periodically available thru J&R Electronics in New York for $399-440. They were sold out for a couple weeks but I noticed they're back in stock again this week. These are much more reliable than a 533, because they don't have the flakey TVGOS program guide. But they are rather pricey, considering they don't have tuners compatible with USA digital broadcasting (although they'll work in Canada until Canada goes to ATSC). You could also troll eBay for a Canadian-spec 460, 560 or 660, or the Canadian-spec Sony RDR-HX780 (a Pioneer clone). If you rely on cable or satellite with a decoder box, the "international" Pioneers or the Sony are a good option. But if you get your TV from free off-air antenna, you'd be happier with the Magnavox H2160A from Wal*Mart- it costs only $229 and does include a reliable ATSC tuner/timer. Compared to a Pioneer, its clunky and crude to operate, but for multi-event off-air recording its really the only viable choice for USA consumers.

If you decide to try a burner repair on your 533, you need to buy a working generic Pioneer DVR-109 or DVR-AO9 burner from eBay. They come and go every few weeks, I saw a few listed this month. Price including shipping can be anywhere from $25-50 depending on source and availability. You would need to remove the burner from your 533, take off and carefully set aside all foil tapes and pads, remove its bottom plate, disconnect three tiny ribbon cables and take out its green controller board. Open up the new replacement burner, remove its green controller board and replace it with the one you took out of the old burner. Close up the new burner, put the foil tapes and pads on it (where they were on the old burner), and install it in the recorder. If you're really lucky, the recorder will not notice the change and will start up normally. The new burner should be good for a few hundred discs, especially if you stick to the TY 8x (stay the hell away form 16x, even the Verbatim, or you'll kill the new burner dead very quickly). IF YOU ARE NOT LUCKY, the 533 will reject the new burner. It will flash odd alerts on the TV or its front panel, or it just won't play or burn anything. If that happens, take out the new burner, put its original green controller card back inside, and set it aside for resale or reuse. Chuck your 533 and its original burner in the trash, because its a hopeless case: if they reject a burner replacement, they are essentially unrepairable. You might be able to get $80-120 for it on eBay, there's always some fool with money who thinks these models are easily repairable, but be honest in your listing and specify "won't burn discs, HDD records OK, sold as-is".

[tcfrerich]

oresetto,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and give all details/options.

I don't mind trying the DIY thing, so I might go that route first.

Would really like to get some of my stuff off of that hard drive, so that might be first option.

Found a A-109 for $50 on ebay, so might give it a whirl.

Thanks for all your help!

Toby

[orsetto]

Good luck with the DIY repair, I really hope it works out for you. But don't be too disappointed if it fails to work: I've been repairing Pioneer recorders for several years now, and the 531-533-633 have proven the worst of the lot by far. These 2005 models are very, very resistant to being repaired: the 531 is a little more receptive, but the 533 and 633 with DV input are usually a nightmare. The combination of poorly integrated TVGOS system with proprietary firmware always results in motherboard/HDD corruption somewhere down the line. When these three models break, they break for good: failure of any single component seems to contaminate the others in a manner that precludes simply replacing the broken part. Theres some sort of internal domino effect where one component failure irreparably damages other circuits and bricks the entire machine.

The 533 falls in the middle of the repair curve: more failure-prone with more severe breakdowns than the 531, but not nearly as bad as the 633 (which I refuse to even touch anymore). I'd estimate your odds at about 60-40 in favor of the burner replacement working out, so its worth a shot. But start making plans for the future: in my experience the 2005 Pioneers will accept only one burner replacement cycle, if at all. Once this second burner wears out its very unlikely you will get the machine to accept a third burner. Figure on 300 or so discs before it starts acting up again, so you have some idea when to stop using it for critical recordings.

Don't get me wrong, these are nice recorders when they work, but they have fatal engineering flaws that make them virtually unrepairable. Pioneer itself was so staggered by the defect rate on these units, they gave up making their own recorders the following year and began collaborating with Sony to design the later 640, 550 and 560. The earlier and later Pioneers are significantly more durable and repairable than the 2005 models: the best course of action with the 531-533-633 is to know when to give up and cut your losses. Hopefully a new burner will lead to some "bonus mileage" from your 533: again, best of luck to you.

[tcfrerich]

is there anyway to get those movies, etc. off of this HD?

I guess i could connect new HDD/DVR up and copy from tv monitor while playing from the broken pioneer?

Any other way?

All the editing features, recording to HDD from input sources work fine - it just won't burn a blasted DVD....

Thanks again!

[orsetto]

If the burner replacement fails, your only alternative is to get a new recorder and connect the 533 to it. You can play the recordings on the 533 HDD thru its line out jacks into the line in jacks of a new recorder. You will lose some image quality using this method, but its better than losing the recordings completely. You won't get anywhere putting the HDD into a PC, because the video file format is Pioneer proprietary. It is possible to put your 533 hard drive into another Pioneer like the earlier 520 or later 640, and do normal lossless high-speed DVD transfers, but this requires a compatible Pioneer model and special hard-to-get expensive Pioneer Service Remote and Service DVD. The two most realistic options are to try replacing the 533 burner or if that fails just copy the recordings off the 533 into a new machine.

[lacywest]

For the ones reading this post ... read my post ... https://forum.videohelp.com/topic373335.html

The TY value pack ... 100 pack ... have been a win win ... everytime I use them on my Panasonic EH50.

Also ... try cleaning the spindle on those Pioneer devices .... if it becomes glazed and foreign objects start to become embedded into the rubber spindle it will no longer grip the DVD disk and keep it steady for recording and playing.

That is what I saw on my spindle on my Panasonic E85H ... it was glazed [shiny] and had little things stuck into the rubber surface. 10 Q-Tips ... finally got it clean ... and it works great now. Got it on Ebay ... nobody bidded on it but me and I got it for around ... $170 bucks. This was the summer of 2008.

[tcfrerich]

ok, burner is in....

have a "snag" in getting the bottom off. 5 screws are easy, but the catch is having to get the front cover off. i see the 4 tabs i have to depress - 2 on side, 2 on bottom. what the hangup that i can't figure out is getting the front cover of the drawer off so that the front cover piece will slide over the drawer. do you open the drawer manually using the little hole and a paperclip? then how does the drawer cover itself pop off.

i think this is where i messed up the old one getting it off because i used the hole and paperclip and bent part of the drawer holder getting it off. then i accidentally forced the drawer closed (probably too hard).

other question - which green board do i take off? just the big one in the back that has the correct power cable and dvr connector?

do i take the smaller green board off, too?

thanks a bunch!

[tcfrerich]

orsetto,

Thanks for ALL your help!!!!

After 3 tries of putting it in and reconnecting cables like you suggested, it finally recognized the DVD drive and it is burning like "new...." (shhh, I don't want to jinx it!!).

Toby

[orsetto]

Hooray! Glad to hear your perserverance paid off. Happy burning!

[tcfrerich]

oresetto,

can you check your pm.....

i have another quick question..

thanks!