VESA approves DisplayPort 1.1: kiss those DVI and VGA ports goodbye

[BJ_M]

Get ready for hot, hot convergence kids 'cause the DisplayPort 1.1 specification was just approved. The new VESA-approved digital interface standard is meant to replace DVI and VGA ports while co-existing with HDMI for HDTV connectivity. As you can see in the picture above, it's about the size of a USB connector yet offers 2x the performance of DVI in a much smaller package. They also bake in a nasty dollop of HDCP 1.3 content protection to keep the Blu-ray and HD DVD kiddies happy. The wee size allows the interface to be included in smaller handheld electronics while enabling direct-drive LCD panels thereby eliminating the need for non-panel LVDS electronics in the monitor designs. Of course it also supports pass-through of DVI and HDMI signals via simple adapters similar to DVI-to-HDMI variety on the market today. So which of our esteemed manufactures will bite first? We're not sure, but VESA isn't shy about using Dell's high-end XPS systems in their marketing collateral. Of course, the question they don't answer is, why not just move everything to HDMI? For that, you just have to look at who backs royalty-free DisplayPort (the PC industry) and who backs HDMI (the consumer electronics industry). Yeah, we know.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=2...96&newsLang=en
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/04/vesa-approves-displayport-1-1-kiss-those-dvi-and-...ga-ports-good/
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/whats-the-matter-with-hdmi.htm

[nerys]

Except that HDCP is part of the spec sadly which greatly reduces my interest :-(

[jagabo]

It won't catch on unless Intel adopts it.

[Wile_E]

I won't miss the pesky screws to hold it in place. But HDCP has got to go.

[edDV]

I guess less than 10% of the users will turn to it, unless it has good marketing strategy, like Good timing, low price(compared to HDMI), and targeting the right people.

Users will take what Dell, Compaq-HP, Apple, ATI, Nvidia, et.al. put on their cards. Who do you think is behind VESA?
http://www.vesa.org/Members/index.htm

HDMI came from the consumer electronics industry*. DisplayPort is the computer industry response to HDMI.

What is the difference? Maybe overscan will not happen on the DisplayPort? They didn't challenge HDCP encryption. That will be on both.


* HDMI combined DVI-D (YCbCr or RGB) plus LPCM/AC3 audio plus bidirectional device control on the same connector with HDCP encryption added. These were all consumer electronics industry + media rights owner motivations.

[jagabo]

Notice that this is DisplayPort 1.1. How many DisplayPort 1.0 devices have you seen?

[edDV]

This is just a pissing match between the Consumer Electronics Association and VESA. HDMI grabbed turf from VESA. Now that people are asking for HDMI on computer cards, VESA is fighting back.

As a video guy, I see that VESA has failed at HDTV interface or convergence. They are in benign neglect that there are HDTV sets out there. They don't even have VESA resolutions for 1280x720 or 1920x1080. They want us to use 1366x768 WXGA or 1920x1200 WUXGA.

It is your problem if your TV won't display 1366x768 or 1920x1200.

[edDV]

Users will take what Dell, Compaq-HP, Apple, ATI, Nvidia, et.al. put on their cards. Who do you think is behind VESA?
http://www.vesa.org/Members/index.htm

HDMI came from the consumer electronics industry*. DisplayPort is the computer industry response to HDMI.

What is the difference? Maybe overscan will not happen on the DisplayPort? They didn't challenge HDCP encryption. That will be on both.


* HDMI combined DVI-D (YCbCr or RGB) plus LPCM/AC3 audio plus bidirectional device control on the same connector with HDCP encryption added. These were all consumer electronics industry + media rights owner motivations.

According to Google, I'm not a big fan of any port, but I'll tell from what I see in Google.
Search "DisplayPort", Results 1 - 10 of about 3,260,000 for DisplayPort. (0.10 seconds).
Search "HDMI", Results 1 - 10 of about 32,500,000 for HDMI. (0.11 seconds).

At least I don't see it coming the way it should, since it has so many members likc Dell, HP, etc.

If you relied on Google hits, Paris Hilton would be Secretary General of the UN.

[jagabo]

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=displayport&btnG=Search+Froogle

Your search - displayport - did not match any products in Froogle.

[edDV]

If you relied on Google hits, Paris Hilton would be Secretary General of the UN.

It's not hits, it's called results. How many results do you have? show me the facts. In several years, you might see the fact. But what now? will all PC users want to purchase a new system? How long will it take the non-DisplayPort PC users are willing to start buying a PCI-e card that supports DisplayPort? are they willing to buy a new LCD display just to make it compatible with their newly purchased DisplayPort PCI-e card, or to make it look better? At least not in the next 3 years. Consider the PCI-e has been introduced for 3 years, and the number of PCI-e cards installed on devices(including PC):

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:tt-HJjkaDRAJ:www.instat.com/newmk.asp%3FID%3D1909...nk&cd=18&gl=us

it reads:
* By 2010, PCI Express will be in 440.2 million devices.
* PCI Express was used in 17 million communications boards in 2006, and will be used in 37.2 million boards in 2010.
* In consumer electronics, PCI and PCIe adoptions are rare and will continue to be.

17 million is actually quite a small number, and HDMI is dorminating the CE market. And I hope I will upgrade my system to DisplayPort-compatible PC in the next couple of years. Within ten years, I think DisplayPort might be the standard PC specs for 80% of the PC users, and also new standards of High Definition will be on today's DisplayPort position.

I not only rely on what I found at google, but also believe that Paris Hilton is a possible candidate of the UN General Secretary.

I'm not getting your point. Are you saying this won't be the future computer graphics standard?

What does PCI, PCIe have to do with it? This will be the connection from graphics card to monitor.

I saw nothing in the article about this improving performance. The DisplayPort is a mechanical way to reduce hardware footprint. It also is a computer industry attempt to keep HDMI from dominating monitor interface. In other words a turf piss match.

[edDV]

Just look at where the HDMI came from. From consumer electronics companies usurping turf from VESA. DisplayPort is Vesa coming back with a modernized monitor port.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/index.asp
"Developed by Sony, Hitachi, Thomson (RCA), Philips, Matsushita (Panasonic), Toshiba and Silicon Image, the High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) has emerged as the connection standard for HDTV and the consumer electronics market. HDMI is the first and only digital interface to combine uncompressed high-definition video, multi-channel audio and intelligent format and command data in a single digital interface. For your end-users, use of a single cable for audio and video dramatically simplifies home theater system installation and eliminates the cable quagmire typically associated with home theater system components. Most importantly, HDMI offers significant advantages over analog A/V connections, including the ability to transmit uncompressed digital video and audio content. In addition to numerous device and display manufacturers, Hollywood studios and cable and satellite operators also support HDMI."

Follow the money
Follow the politics

[jagabo]

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=displayport&btnG=Search+Froogle

Your search - displayport - did not match any products in Froogle.

jagabo, are you trying to buy the DisplayPort?

No, I simply was pointing out there were no products that implement DisplayPort. Even though version 1.0 was ratified nearly a year ago. As I mentioned earlier, it has no chance of widespread use until Intel puts it on their motherboards.

[edDV]

it has no chance of widespread use until Intel puts it on their motherboards.

Interesting. Intel is one company that could jump ship to the nether side and join the DRM centric ranks.

I think Intel and Microsoft are the only companies with the clout to steer computer industry response on these issues. Google maybe.

[jagabo]

it has no chance of widespread use until Intel puts it on their motherboards.

Interesting. Intel is one company that could jump ship to the nether side and join the DRM centric ranks.

Huh? They're already firmly in the DRM ranks. HDCP is Intel's product.

[BobK]

If you relied on Google hits, Paris Hilton would be Secretary General of the UN.

Nope. I just Googled Paris Hilton Secretary General UN and got 524,000 'hits'. Bono beats her with 527,000, Howard Stern gets 566,000 and Tom Cruise at 796,000.

[edDV]

it has no chance of widespread use until Intel puts it on their motherboards.

Interesting. Intel is one company that could jump ship to the nether side and join the DRM centric ranks.

Huh? They're already firmly in the DRM ranks. HDCP is Intel's product.

Yup. That won't work. Guess Gates is the last defense. Yup. That won't work.

http://www.digital-cp.com/home/HDCP_Specification%20Rev1_3.pdf

[edDV]

I don't think lack of product today is very meaningful. The spec was approved last year and is being designed into next generation chips as we sit here. DisplayPort is a key feature in the AMD Fusion product which integrates the GPU into the CPU. Since DisplayPort directly runs both an internal LCD and multiple external monitors, it will be a natural for notebooks and iMac/MacMini type devices. ATI is including DisplayPort support into the next generation GPU designs for graphics cards. The reason is reduced cost, power and complexity.

NVidia is supporting both DisplayPort and UDI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Display_Interface

"By CES 2007, Samsung and Intel have withdrawn from the UDI SIG, with Apple likely to follow suit. With those major players dropping support for UDI, the standard will unlikely be implemented in a widespread fashion, if at all, especially with the adoption of the competing DisplayPort as a VESA standard."

DisplayPort will support connection to a HDMI TV with an adapter + cable.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/vesa-displayport-standard-v1.0

Here is a more pessimistic view (Pre-CES announcement) of DisplayPort. This guy thinks HDMI will be around for awhile.
http://www.edn.com/article/CA6402885.html

Here are post CES speculations
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20070328/129642/
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/8658.cfm
http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/display_port.html#Is_DisplayPort_compatible_with_VGA_DVI_HDMI

[edDV]

These products are marketed to manufacturers not end consumers. Although we may be affected, the last article above indicates DisplayPort and HDMI will be inter operable with simple adapters/cables.

Cost and performance beyond HDMI seems to be the driving force. DisplayPort simplifies notebooks and low end computers (cost) and extends graphics cards to 2560x1600 (WQXGA) without the cost of dual link DVI. It also simplifies monitors and allows longer cables.

Intel drove the DVI interface and it looks like it will drive this one too. Intel's decision to abandon UDI for DisplayPort will probably force Apple and NVidia to abandon it as well. It seems none of them want to pay the royalties needed for HDMI.


AMD/ATI announcement
http://www.tech2.com/india/news/desktop-pcs/amd-will-support-displayport-standard/3324/0
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11438

Intel Issues
http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196802386
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070103-8542.html

[edDV]

I think I'll start a cable company. They get all the money.

[TwistedLincoln]

This won't take off. I sell computers on a regular basis to people who are too cheap to buy a new monitor, so they use their 10 year old 15" CRT with their new PC...

Sure, the OEMs might impliment it. And some people will surely end up using it, because it's just there. But as long as the older standards (VGA and DVI) are the widely used format, video card makers will still make cards that use them. And as long as they make cards, people will buy them so they won't have to replace their monitors. And as long as people are buying them more frequently, the video card makers will focus on selling them, rather than the new standard... etc.. etc...

[edDV]

This won't take off. I sell computers on a regular basis to people who are too cheap to buy a new monitor, so they use their 10 year old 15" CRT with their new PC...

Sure, the OEMs might impliment it. And some people will surely end up using it, because it's just there. But as long as the older standards (VGA and DVI) are the widely used format, video card makers will still make cards that use them. And as long as they make cards, people will buy them so they won't have to replace their monitors. And as long as people are buying them more frequently, the video card makers will focus on selling them, rather than the new standard... etc.. etc...

DVI-I has the advantage that it carries both analog and digital pins (VGA+DVI-D). HDMI and DisplayPort are digital only connectors.

I tend to agree that ATI display cards will probably have both DVI-I and Display Port during the transition. The real test will be notebooks. Will notebooks continue to carry the RAMDAC and analog overhead for S-Video and VGA out?. This is a significant amount of chip and power burden.

[offline]

No power overhead if the DAC is not on. The transition process, if any, will be subject to the usual market forces and manipulation. The real test will be monitors, I think, and not notebooks. Monitor sales have a much longer life cycle and thus will tend to influence buyer behaviour to a greater degree - particularly in the initial stages. Later on, the perceived advantages may see increased sales.

[edDV]

LCD monitors can be a few dollars cheaper using only DisplayPort. High end LCD monitors and go higher resolution with a simpler longer cable, but otherwise there is no real advantage for monitors.

All DisplayPort will do is stop HDMI from being widely used on computers. Some high end computer monitor users will want to play HD/BD DVD and for that, they will need either HDMI or DisplayPort on the monitor.

Computer users will want to drive LCD-TV sets with HD/BD DVD. When HDCP goes live, they will need HDMI or DisplayPort on their computer. It looks like what the computer industry is going to give them is DisplayPort. Yet another cable to buy.