GRAINY DIGITISED FOOTAGE THROUGH LIQUID EDITION?

[foxbox]

Hi

I'm looking for some advice on the following matter:-

I have digitised several hours of footage into Liquid Edition 6 via my JVC miniDV camcorder. I was most pleased this worked, since the footage was shot as a college project on an ultra-expensive Panasonic DV cam (a big £7000 machine). I figured I'd try it, since the formats (i.e. miniDV tape) are both the same - though I know there is obviously a vast difference between the internal capabilities of both cameras.

In beginning to edit the footage, it seems there is a lot of grain present. This is most notable in shots with a static background of all one colour. By grain, I mean if you look closely you will see hundreds of tiny pixels moving around very fast. This is only really distracting probably to me because I am staring closely at the footage all day, and one could argue the effect looks quite 'filmlike' in a way... but does anyone have any insight as to why this grain is present?

I'm assuming it is as a result of playing a tape recorded at high quality through a mere camcorder, something to do with the attention to detail which my £250 JVC is lacking? But should the camcorder not play in the same high quality whatever is on the tape, as it was recorded? Or is this simply not possible with cheap equipment?

Anyway, thanks for any info you can provide.

Cheers!

[Guiboche]

Cameras do have a certain amount of noise in them. Even the big $5000 types.

Depending on lighting/exposure, the amount of noise can be more or less.

I have worked with the Panasonic camers, and yes, there is noise in the footage. And, yes, it does look like "Grain."

So, I believe the noise you are talking about was recorded into the footage at acquisition, and not because you're using a consumer DV camera for playback.

[edDV]

More info needed. What was the model number of the expensive camcorder? Are you sure the format was normal DV 576i or a special fomat like "24p Advanced"?

What method are you using to "capture" into liquid? Normal DV transfer over IEEE-1394?

Are your home results different than what you see at work?

[foxbox]

I'll investigate these matters further and revert, thanks.

[foxbox]

I will try and find out the model number of the big camera. I have not been educated in formats such as DV576i or 24p Advanced as of yet.

To capture into liquid, I am using i-Link DV (ie camcorder through firewire) - I have not seen the term IEEE-1394 anywhere in the software?

After experimenting, I have tried capturing through other programs with varying results in quality, each one apparently with similar grain problems in darker (not 'dark') areas of the screen.

I have tried hooking my camcorder directly to the TV, where the images are certainly far less grainy, though not totally devoid of it upon close up inspection. Assuming there would be less grain anyway with MiniDV tape playing directly onto TV without any 'computerisation' yet?

Have started a new project in Liquid Edition, selecting 'Interlaced from top', 'from bottom' and 'no interlace', which I assume means 'progressive'? Same grainy results.

Will be able to confirm how footage looks through work ingest machines very shortly.

Any thoughts on the above in the meantime?

Cheers

[guns1inger]

IEEE-1394 is the standards name for the device also known as Firewire, DV or i-Link, depending on whose kit you are buying. Basically all the same thing.

Most TVs have circuitry built-in to reduce the appearance of noise. Your PC monitor does not. This means that you cannot easily compare the appearance on TV to what you see captured on your PC. Your PC will show you all the flaws, artifacts and grain.

[edDV]

A frame capture posted here will help us know if your "noise" is normal. You might need to apply a noise reduction filter before encoding in extreme cases.

[ofbarea]

I have an older D8 CAM that gives me this problem in low light conditions.

I found that this specific problem is reduced by using a a dot crawl filter in VirtualDub before encoding to MPEG2.

Also the payware Neatvideo filter produces great results. It is a bit slower, but very good.