known Philips DVP 5960 hdmi problems

[mech1]

are there any? I still have to buy an hdmi cable but the ones I was looking at from circuit city ran between $80 & $130. I have a Samsung LNS3241D 32" LCD with 2 hdmi slots in the back, although i'd like to be sure the upconverter works before I shell out the big bucks for a cable. any ideas?

[Neuron]

I purchased 2 10ft. HDMI cables off eBay for $2.95 each as "Buy It Now" ( + 5.50 shipping cost). Find eBay seller monoprice.com
I'm pleased. They are not "Monster Cable" cables of course but I personally do not believe in miracle of Monster Cable.

When I was testing this player I was disappointed by how Philips 5960 did up-conversion. Very weak up-scaler and in some cases makes PQ even worse. I would not recommend for Philips 5960 for playback on HDTV via its up-converter.
Just my opinion.

[mech1]

are there any real differences between hdmi cables?

[Neuron]

Here it is ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220058468461

and see my added comments about Philips 5960 in my previouse reply.

[mech1]

i'm currently using component cables with my dvd player but $2.95 might be a worthwhile investment for hdmi cables. the douchebag at circuit city tonight tried selling me those ridiculously priced monster cables.

btw, what are you upconverting to? 720p? 1080i? what kind of tv do you have?

[Neuron]

I tested Philips in all its available up-conversion modes - 480p, 720p and 1080i. I used both DVD-video and DivX video. I did not like any of the results. I did not even notice the difference between Auto mode, 480i and 480p settings. Seemed equal to me. On 720p and 1080i up-converter creates very “noisy” and kinda blurred picture.

I have Panasonic 42" plasma HDTV and my cable box (Comcast digital HD box) and HTIB system (JVC TH-C50) connected to that TV via HDMIs. Cable box has DVI-D output so I'm also using DVI-to-HDMI adapter. JVC TH-C50 does spectacular up-scaling. DVD video played via 720p looks practically HD-like. Very crispy and noiseless and full of colors picture. I really like this machine and its up-scaling quality. I tested a few other players before I ended up with JVC TH-C50

[mech1]

hmmm. unfortunately, i'm not looking to spend $300 on a dvd player. the reviews (for the 5960) i've read through c-net seemed promising, plus, I imagine using an hdmi cable over component cables would be a step up in pic quality. also, I like that the 5960 is hackable. thanks for the tip on monoprice.com though, i'll definitely be using them in the future.

[edDV]

are there any real differences between hdmi cables?

Start by reading this.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm

Better to invest in a quality DVD player than overpriced cables.

[Neuron]

hmmm. unfortunately, i'm not looking to spend $300 on a dvd player. the reviews (for the 5960) i've read through c-net seemed promising....

OK. Choice should always be yours based on your own judgment and preferences. I made mine and at least I shared with you my experience and opinion. The only thing that I would recommend is jut get Philips for test drive and see for yourself if this player is good for you. If yes - keep it / If not - return is back to the store and continue shopping until you find your gold.

[mech1]

are there any real differences between hdmi cables?

Start by reading this.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm

Better to invest in a quality DVD player than overpriced cables.

thanks for the link. looks like I won't be buying any hdmi cable after all. i'm using some decent component cables with my dvd player and haven't had any problems with pic quality. i'm tempted to go back to circuit city to tell the sales guy what a wet bag of shit he is for trying to sell me overpriced & useless hdmi cables.

[Neuron]

.... looks like I won't be buying any hdmi cable after all. i'm using some decent component cables with my dvd player and haven't had any problems .....

Well ...
Having knowledge of "molecular level" of cable engineering design and differences between cables will not change your physiological visual perception of image. You will always see what your eye allows you to see. I’m sure your eyes will not tell you difference. I did not notice any differences or changes in picture quality when I switched from component cable to HDMI cable. I only switched to HDMI because it allowed me to eliminate necessity to use extra pare of cables. I meant audio cables. And, of course, if using separate audio / video cables is not an issue for you then stay with component cable.

[jagabo]

.... looks like I won't be buying any hdmi cable after all. i'm using some decent component cables with my dvd player and haven't had any problems .....

I did not notice any differences or changes in picture quality when I switched from component cable to HDMI cable.

This can vary from TV to TV depending on the processing. Might as well try an inexpensive HDMI cable. Even Amazon has them for well under US$10.

[Neuron]

...This can vary from TV to TV depending on the processing. Might as well try an inexpensive HDMI cable.

I’m using inexpensive HDMI cables (see my previous posts) and my TV is not a hi-end / top-gear HDTV set. And I’m pretty sure that even if I would go with "expensive" cable this will not make any differences. IMHO

[jagabo]

...This can vary from TV to TV depending on the processing. Might as well try an inexpensive HDMI cable.

I’m using inexpensive HDMI cables (see my previuse posts) and my TV is not a hi-end / top-gear HDTV set. And I’m pretty sure that even if I would go with "expensive" cable this will not make any differences. IMHO

I'm not saying there will be a difference between expensive and cheap HDMI cables. I 'm saying there may be a difference between component and HDMI cables depending on how the DVD player and HDTV handle the two. Just because you see no difference doesn't mean that somebody with a different DVD player and/or different HDTV will have the same experience.

[Neuron]

... I 'm saying there may be a difference between component and HDMI cables depending on how the DVD player and HDTV handle the two.

OK. Sorry! I got it.
Yes. This can be true as well.

[Neuron]

....Just because you see no difference doesn't mean that somebody with a different DVD player and/or different HDTV will have the same experience.

Absolutely agree.
I’m not insisting that everyone should agree with me or rely on what I have said. I just expressed my opinion based only on my own experience and knowledge. For you, or for someone else, this experience might be different. I only shared my thoughts.

[FulciLives]

I have a Philips DVP-5140 connected to my 51" 16x9 WS HDTV via component video. The image quality is most excellent but the HDTV is doing the up-conversion.

Unless you need the USB input (which seems very hit or miss) or the "high rez" JPEG capability ... you really don't need the DVP-5960 model.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Neuron]

... but the HDTV is doing the up-conversion....you really don't need the DVP-5960 model

The key point is that your HDTV has its own built-in active scaler (and most likely with naitive screen resolution conversion in mind) with deinterlacing so in your case it does not matter what DVD player to have because your TV does up-scaling by itself. And in some cases using both DVD player-based un-conversion and HDTV up-scaling can result in bad image quality. Of course having HDTV with built-in up-scaler is ideal, but not all HDTV have this and in case if your HDVT does not do up-scaling it would definitely be better to find DVD player with good quality up-scaler. Unfortunately Philips 5960 is not the one anyway.

[FulciLives]

... but the HDTV is doing the up-conversion....you really don't need the DVP-5960 model

The key point is that your HDTV has its own built-in active scaler (and most likely with naitive screen resolution conversion in mind) with deinterlacing so in your case it does not matter what DVD player to have because your TV does up-scaling by itself. And in some cases using both DVD player-based un-conversion and HDTV up-scaling can result in bad image quality. Of course having HDTV with built-in up-scaler is ideal, but not all HDTV have this and in case if your HDVT does not do up-scaling it would definitely be better to find DVD player with good quality up-scaler. Unfortunately Philips 5960 is not the one anyway.

I think the Philips DVP-5140 and DVP-5960 are most excellent for MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) playback. However I agree that the up-conversion of the DVP-5960 is not that good (I've heard this many times myself).

I guess my point is this ... don't waste money on the DVP-5960 ... instead buy the cheaper DVP-5140 and output everything at 480i via component video and let the HDTV set do it's job. I should point out though that I do set the output to 480p if I am playing a MPEG-4 file or a DVD that I know is progressive. If I don't know for sure though that the DVD is progressive then I set to 480i output.

Most of the HDTV sets on the market can do 480i up-conversion to the HDTV's native resolution much better than most DVD players can although if you want to go "all out" then there is always the Oppo Digital DV-981HD which will outperform the scaler in most HDTV sets as long as you use the HDMI output. Of course the DV-981HD is $229.00 + shipping.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[mech1]

I only bought the 5960 because it's hackable. is the 5140 hackable?

[FulciLives]

I only bought the 5960 because it's hackable. is the 5140 hackable?

If my "hackable" you mean it can be made REGION FREE and does PAL to NTSC then yes. Otherwise if by hackable you mean something else ... well then I don't know what you mean then I guess LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Neuron]

I only bought the 5960 because it's hackable. is the 5140 hackable?

...If my "hackable" you mean it can be made REGION FREE and does PAL to NTSC ...

I believe by “hackable” he meant make player be Microsovison immune or so.
For other purposes I do not understand why it is needed. Mostly all DVD players on today’s market are both formats (NTCS and PAL) playable, and I wonder how may DVD discs here in US you ever had a chance to have marked with regions other than “1” or “All”? I personally never.

[FulciLives]

I only bought the 5960 because it's hackable. is the 5140 hackable?

...If my "hackable" you mean it can be made REGION FREE and does PAL to NTSC ...

I believe by “hackable” he meant make player be Microsovison immune or so.
For other purposes I do not understand why it is needed. Mostly all DVD players on today’s market are both formats (NTCS and PAL) playable, and I wonder how may DVD discs here in US you ever had a chance to have marked with regions other than “1” or “All”? I personally never.

Well one nice thing about the Philips DVP-5140 and DVP-5960 is that they are both easily "hackable" to be made region free and this is important to some people. As for myself I have many "import" DVD releases. I live in the USA but not all of the movies I want to watch are released here. I have DVD Videos from the UK, Japan, Germany, Netherlands, Hong Kong, etc. and some are NTSC and some are PAL and some are something other than REGION 1 or ALL REGION.

So yes for some people the ability to make a DVD player that is already cheap be REGION FREE is a big deal ... also knowing it will do PAL to NTSC is a big deal.

Having said that I bought the Philips DVP-5140 for MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) playback. I already have another DVD player that is region free and does better PAL to NTSC than the Philips. Unfortunately neither the DVP-5140 nor the DVP-5960 do all that well on PAL to NTSC conversion (at least when the source is a DVD).

For those looking for a region free DVD player that does excellent DivX and XviD as well as excellent PAL to NTSC then I suggest you get the Oppo Digital DV-981HD but bear in mind that you only get the benefits of excellent PAL to NTSC when using the HDMI output ... otherwise the PAL to NTSC is somewhat lacklaster ala the Philips units. This is because the special "circuitry" that the DV-981HD uses only kicks in when using the HDMI output ... otherwise it uses the "other circuitry" it has for the other video outputs which gives you quality that is about on par, give or take, to that of the Philips units. As for the DVP-5960 being better than the DVP-5140 because it has HDMI output? ... sorry but that isn't the case!

The only "bad" thing about the Oppo Digital DV-981HD is that it is not "Ultra DivX" but merely "DivX" certified. From all accounts it handles MPEG-4 as well as an "Ultra DivX" certified player but it can't do the "Ultra" menus or chapters etc. although in the end who cares about that?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Neuron]

What is the big deal about Ultra DivX and I wonder how many "Ultra DivX" files you have?
My JVC TH-C50 is also "Ultra DivX" and I have relatively big collection of MPEG-4 media files (DivX, XviD and etc.) and never came across “Ultra DivX” files other than just a demo movie from DivX
I personally more concern about DivX-HD, WMV-HD and EMPEG2-TS supportability rather than Ultra DivX support. But unfortunately still not supported by easy-to-find-in-store players.

Speaking of DVD players like OPPO.
If someone can afford DVD players level like OPPO I would better suggest to look at Snazio 1350 or Zensonic Z500 or even Helios X5000.

[mech1]

Having said that I bought the Philips DVP-5140 for MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) playback. I already have another DVD player that is region free and does better PAL to NTSC than the Philips. Unfortunately neither the DVP-5140 nor the DVP-5960 do all that well on PAL to NTSC conversion (at least when the source is a DVD).

what noticeable problems are there with PAL to NTSC conversion for these models?

[TBoneit]

I've been using TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 to do Ultra Divx... For some things Chapters and Menus are handy. So the big deal is I can do a TRUE DVD or a UltraDivx of the same source... I can get more on a Divx DVD vs DVD and have the same experience. Menu's, Chapters, And quality.

I'm not talking about going from a DVD to Divx here but rather a DV or Capture to DVD/UltraDivx.

[FulciLives]

Having said that I bought the Philips DVP-5140 for MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) playback. I already have another DVD player that is region free and does better PAL to NTSC than the Philips. Unfortunately neither the DVP-5140 nor the DVP-5960 do all that well on PAL to NTSC conversion (at least when the source is a DVD).

what noticeable problems are there with PAL to NTSC conversion for these models?

The two Philips DVD players actually do a good job of doing the frame rate conversion of PAL to NTSC but the resize from PAL DVD to NTSC is done very poorly which results in what you might call "jaggies" or anti-aliasing artifacts.

They seem to do fine with PAL MPEG-4 files that have been resized to a square pixel resolution but PAL DVD to NTSC just looks ugly with all the "jaggies" and what-not (the image also has a very slight bob to it if I recall ... most noticeable at the start of movies that have non-moving titles of white against a black background).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Neuron]

... For some things Chapters and Menus are handy. So the big deal is I can do a TRUE DVD or a UltraDivx of the same source... I can get more on a Divx DVD vs ...

I'm sure it is handy but I wonder how many Ultra DivX media is and will be out there? .. At least now I see none. And as I said before I would rather care and prefer to have DivX-HD and/or WMV-HD support option. But it is only matter of individual preferences of course.

[TBoneit]

Whether or not it is out there is a moot point. IMHO it is hard to walk into any store and buy Divx..... There is some legal Downloadable Divx, WMV,Mov out on the net. The Ultra Divx authoring and player is for things done in house by me. Divx HD would mean a whole new model as I'm pretty sure the electronics in this one can not do HD Divx playback. Why upgrade when you can make a new model and charge more.

to put it another way. The 5960 is what it is and for my needs it does the job. Same with TDA 3

[jagabo]

The two Philips DVD players actually do a good job of doing the frame rate conversion of PAL to NTSC but the resize from PAL DVD to NTSC is done very poorly which results in what you might call "jaggies" or anti-aliasing artifacts.

I've seen the Philips DVP-642 and it has poor PAL->NTSC scaling. It probably used a nearest neighbor filter (just dropped scanlines) to resize from 576 to 480 lines. Frame rate conversion was smooth, probably 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown.

I have a DVP-5960 and it has both good scaling and good frame rate conversion.

I haven't seen the DVP-5140. I suspect it's the same as the DVP-642.

My old Liteon LVD-2002 has good scaling but mediocre frame rate conversion. It simply repeats frames to go from 25 to 29.97 fps.

This is all with progressive PAL DVDs played back on an SD NTSC CRT TV via component or s-video. I don't have any interlaced PAL DVDs to test.