new members' first post

[TooLFooL]

i think disciplinary action should be taken against anyone who's first post is "can someone please tell me how to backup this dvd?"

it's amazing what you can learn here by NOT ASKING. don't get me wrong, i understand we are here to help people, but i think you guys know what i'm talking about. it takes half a brain and 5 minutes of initiative to figure it out yourself.

[redwudz]

They usually get a warning, along with their thread title being changed, and continued violations will get a card. This is not a major problem for us, just housekeeping. Please report those type of posts if we miss them.

EDIT: Actually, when I re-read my reply this morning, I was thinking more of a post title like 'Hi there' or similar.

For just a clueless question, a more suitable reply might be to point them to the FAQs: https://www.videohelp.com/faq

[kimco52]

Here is a good example of what, I believe, Toolfool is talking about.

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=317760

[steveryan]

It's a typical christmas on Videohelp, people get shiny new DVD players, Mp3 players and maybe even a laptop if they've been a good boy/girl.

[psx_pirate]

I must have been a real good boy then as the wife got me a new laptop for christmas .... luckily i have been backing up dvds for a long time so won't be asking any silly questions lol

[Mr. Dweezel]

<--------- For their first post just direct them to the Guides on the left.

You can't help someone who doesn't want to learn.

All of us were, and still are in a sense, newbies! :P

[classfour]

Much knowledge in the guides but little patience to learn by many, especially newbies. I have a relative like that - finally quit answering the phone - wanted knowledge, but wouldn't do the leg work. It took me months of patience, spending money, and trial & error - even with the help of guides here and elsewhere: Before I could reliably make a proper disc every time.

[TooLFooL]

exactly.. all the information you need is here, over and over again. just seems like every-other new member immediately asks for the answer, rather that spend 5 minutes reading the HUGE BOLDFACED stickys that tell them everything they need to know. or worse, god forbid they have to use the search feature!

some examples:
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=317977
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=317808
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=317658
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=316972

sorry - i just needed to vent a little! btw HAPPY HOLIDAYS everybody!

[daamon]

I understand your need to vent - I, too, get very frustrated by what, in essence, is plain laziness and a total lack of intuition.

It used to p155 me off no end - now my form of "disciplinary action" is to point them to the guides and stickies, tell them to "read, read some more, learn by trial and error, and then ask when you get stuck".

Then ignore them until they do...

I'm safe in the knowledge I've told them where to go, so I've helped, but I'm not prepared to wipe their ar5e5 for them.

[jimmalenko]

I'm safe in the knowledge I've told them where to go, so I've helped, but I'm not prepared to wipe their ar5e5 for them.

Typical pommie ....... all talk, no action

[Bjs]

I'm with jimmalenko on this one ... the pommie bit ... what a sad sack .

I think you misread some sarcasm from both posters / Moderator Offline

I say If you wont help other's out , then by all means , bugger off elsewhere ... "your" a waste of time and effort .

Just saying "go here" , "then here" , "read them" , now you "figure it out" is just , too a point , being obnoxious .
It's as bad as bouncing spam ... your just adding to the traffic congestion problem ... what a looser .

It's why I spend alot of time answering pm's rather than out in the open forum helping user's ... hour's at a time , and on several forum's .

The moderator's do a good job at redirecting traffic when needed ... but a few do get stuck on the round about ... esspecially brand new newbies who dont always use "search" first ... those L plate's will send you blind ... lol .

[manono]

I'm with jimmalenko on this one.

Except there's a difference; Jim's joking and you're serious. And seriously wrong, in my opinion. If the poster isn't willing to meet us half way by doing the searching, reading, studying, and experimenting, then he deserves all the abuse, insults, and sarcasm he gets. To do otherwise only encourages the lazy louts. There are very few questions a rookie can ask that haven't been asked countless times before. Usually a quick search will turn up the answer. No, I'm with daamon, TooLFooL, and the others who have spoken out against putting up with these fools.

[Capmaster]

Agreed. Daamon has the right approach.

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime"

[MJA]

I noticed alot of new members joined the forum this month,and Spammers too.

[TooLFooL]

it's not that i think these people don't deserve help, but it's probably safe to assume they came here looking for one thing and one thing only:

someone to tell them how to make an illegal backup.

i guess that just irks me a little, and i think that if that's all they really want, the least they could do is take 5 minutes to figure it out, y'know?

[lenti_75]

there are people who might read on the left, but still don't understand......

I agree that 99.99% just what to back-up right away...but, we still have to help that 0.01%, who just can't understand the pc world.

:P

[kimco52]

I am all for helping someone. Lord knows I come here asking for info.
I would like to see someone show that they have at least looked but somehow ran into a dead end or didn't understand, or......
I would also like a well written query.... one with details and information so that we can give a proper response.

What bothers me would be someone asking a generic question about something that has been answered and is covered very well if someone had spent 5-10 minutes looking for it. I don't like someone coming in and saying, effectively, that they don't have time to look and just want someone to tell them what to do step by step so that they don't have to understand what they are doing........ just a cookie formula.

Don't get me wrong. cookbook formulas are great for a how to. But generally, those are written and can be found fairly easily without help.... if some effort is put into it.

[Capmaster]

it's not that i think these people don't deserve help, but it's probably safe to assume they came here looking for one thing and one thing only:

someone to tell them how to make an illegal backup.

i guess that just irks me a little, and i think that if that's all they really want, the least they could do is take 5 minutes to figure it out, y'know?

Sooner or later they let slip the wrong thing and they either get a yellow pillow or the heave-ho for their trouble

[Scorpion King]

The mods do a good job of answering those dumb questions the rest don't want to mess with and I think it should be that way. Never a question unanswered - somehow, no matter how it's answered... its answered in some way. At least thats how it looks like it's being done for the most part. And I see some pretty lengthy answers being generated because of the way some questions are asked. lol

Use my technique.... If I don't like what I see/read I use File-Exit. That usually fixes it.

[Capmaster]

The mods do a good job of answering those dumb questions the rest don't want to mess with and I think it should be that way. Never a question unanswered - somehow, no matter how it's answered... its answered in some way.

Absolutely. The mods here are so patient, they border on sainthood at times, with all the hand-holding and friendly guiding of the noobs to the right place

And I say that not because I used to be a mod here They all deserve a pat on the back! 8)

[kisrum]

I've never seen a forum from gaming to cameras to travel to zoology that didn't have exactly the same issues with newbie questions.

So what. Grow up. Answer or do not. Come to the forum or do not. But stop whining about it. We all have a stupid question or two in our past.

The guides are overrated as a resource for newbies. For most it is obvious that they are not written by technical writers or human factors engineers and most are way over the heads of your typical newbie.

I am most inspired by the old dudes that hang around shotgun clubs and ALWAYS have time to work with newbies because it is ALWAYS good to have new people interested in an activity, especially activities like shotgunning, or perfectly legal manipulation of digital media, which are under threat. But then there are always the people who compensate for their shortcomings by insulting or belittling the newbies.

edited

I apologize for the ******* comment. A bit strong for such a nice place, generally.

[Capmaster]

@kisrum - I know what you mean. But remember that there are noobs, and there are lazy wastes of skin who want everyone to do their searching, and lack the initiative to learn anything. They are "immediate gratification" types who want it all NOW without investing any time at all. But they don't mind someone else investing their even more valuable time to help them

But most noobs are just sincere, inexperienced folks who need a gentle nudge in the right direction. Us old-timers here can immediately spot them, and we can also spot the lazy-asses

[soul2]

Human nature being what it is, we all like to impart our knowledge and we all think that ours is the only opinion that is correct. (C'mon, be honest!)
Having just read through this and agreeing wholeheartedly with the 'fors' and 'againsts' (OK. call me fence-sitter), isn't there a way of going through this dichotomy rather than arguing round and endlessly round?
These days, I do make every effort to try and find a likely search/knowledgebase/forum that will answer my question, but I can still easily get bogged down with what I'm reading about, especially when new acronyms get thrown up in the middle of my basic query and I then have to go off and discover what that means as well!
It can be like a starving man being suddenly presented at a feast sometimes.
So, supposing someone has been given a new pc this Christmas? Supposing it's their first? Knowledge and experience is zero. It's more than likely come with inbuilt 'goodies' and it's easy to understand the urge to run before learning to walk. But how? So they make their first steps at posting their particular question on a forum. After all, what's the point of reading through the help files when they can get an instant answer? They're tentative in how to address their q.....so they type "Hi", "Help", "Please help!", and of course, everyone else loudly groans.
Yep. It's easy to see both sides. So, what about some sort of early-learning for new ppl. i.e. they can't post anything until they've researched the 'beginners course' and 'passed' the test of their understanding? Something along those lines maybe? Is that possible? Since all forums have this greivance, surely there is a way that will keep everyone happy?

[offline]

i think disciplinary action should be taken against anyone who's first post is "can someone please tell me how to backup this dvd?"

I agree.

At the moment, if such posts are reported, the mods will act on a case by case basis. If we get enough reports to indicate this is a growing problem, more proactive methods may be tested. We have to remain fair to new members though, and maintain a balanced approach at all times.

surely there is a way that will keep everyone happy?

drugs?

[soul2]

Great idea, Offline. If you're volunteering I'm wondering how you intend to execute the mammoth task. Does it include a red suit with white trimmings and reindeer? Will you have just one exhausting night to post packages down forum members chimneys?

(...and, NO! Despite the above, I'm not already on 'em!)

[offline]

[thecoalman]

Does it include a red suit with white trimmings and reindeer?

That's how Santa does it...

Chong: Hey, just a minute, man. Now, how'd he do that, man?
Cheech: Oh, well, man, he took da freeway. How else, man?
Chong: No, man. No, man, how'd he do all that other stuff, man? Like, how'd he
make himself small, man. And, how'd he, like, how'd he get the reindeer
off the ground, man?
Cheech: Oh, well, man, he had some magic dust, man.
Chong: Some magic dust?
Cheech: Yeah, magic dust, y'know? He used ta give a little bit to da reindeer, a
little bit to Santa Claus, a little bit more for Santa Claus, a little
bit more...
Chong: And this would get the reindeer off, man?
Cheech: Aw, got 'em off, man?!? Are you kidding, man? They flew all da way
around da world, man!

[gll99]

I know some are of the "help me now I have a school project due on friday" type, sometimes noob questions may indicate something lacking in the site design.

What page are they seeing first?

Maybe something is needed for the long term.

Before they can post is there a faq that they must first read and checkoff or is there only a time delay?

You can't just think that a 1 to 3 day delay before allowing posting will make people search and read on their own. Maybe a forced flash type trip through some faq, tools section overview and common guides with a tutorial on using the search engine would benefit users before being able to post. Unless they go through the tutorial and check mark simple questions along the way their user id would remain read only access.

Nothing too complicated at first mostly recorded screen activity converted to flash which could be embellished and made more interactive in time.

[fritzi93]

I am most inspired by the old dudes that hang around shotgun clubs and ALWAYS have time to work with newbies....

Ha, it's because there are dire consequences if you fail. On the one hand, you don't want to discourage novices, on the other hand, safety consciousness and correct procedure has to be pounded into them. (In the nicest possible way, of course.) We're talking a matter of weeks before you feel you can take your eye off a new guy at the range. Nobody wants to squad with a gun-waver/accidental traphouse shooter. :P

Anyway, this is quite different. Happens every year, same old same old, and the regulars get cranky about it.

[Ai Haibara]

Before they can post is there a faq that they must first read and checkoff or is there only a time delay?

You can't just think that a 1 to 3 day delay before allowing posting will make people search and read on their own.

Actually, I thought the delay before new members could post was to discourage spammers and spambots, more than anything else.