DVD authoring software

[vanderbog]

Hi guys,
I need a reliable software for my DVD authoring and wanted to ask what is the best option.
I only need to make a DVD from an AVI file and sometimes add subtitles.
What I care the most is to have a good encoder and the ease of use. I am not doing these things every day and would really like something easy to use.
I found a software promising to do exactly what I need but it's not working (Avi2DVD). It's able to use the encoder that I find the very best of all (QuEnc) and do it all in a simple and intuitive way, but I couldn't use it because of the following error: I select the Avi, the subtitles, output options....and when I say GO...it's asking for an audio track !! If anyone had the same problem and found the workaround...please let me know.
I would really like to use as the encoder QuEnc because the quality is incredible. By the way, since QuEnc output is a single mpeg2 file, does anyone know a reliable multiplexer able to mux this with a subtitle and make a DVD ?
Thanks guys.

[FulciLives]

HCenc is better than Quenc in my opinion. To get the most out of HCenc you need to learn AviSynth AVS scripting although for AVI input FitCD will help you create your AviSynth AVS script.

Muxman is a simple DVD authoring solution that allows for multiple audio and subtitle streams. Another option is DVDauthorGUI.

As for audio you will need to demux from the AVI and if you need AC-3 then use ffmpegGUI.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[grannyGeek]

If you like Avi2Dvd, there is a rather large thread at DigitalDigest that might have helpful information for you
LINK.


I like DvdAuthorGui. It fits my simple needs, it accepts mpg2 (output from Quenc), or elementary m2v video and ac3/mp2 audio, and does support multiple subtitle and audio tracks.

[AlanHK]

I couldn't use it because of the following error: I select the Avi, the subtitles, output options....and when I say GO...it's asking for an audio track !! If anyone had the same problem and found the workaround...please let me know.

Avi2DVD is a GUI for several programs, some of which are a bit old fashioned in what kind of filenames they expect. Make sure your source files and the folders they're in have simple names -- no more than 8 letters, no spaces or punctuation.

[vanderbog]

Thanks for your posts guys.
AlanHK, maybe in my intent of using Avi2DVD it was indeed a problem with the names lengths (I had more than 8 characters), because it wasn't picking up the audio stream and keep asking for one when trying to press GO. I'll try to rename the Avi and give it another shot.
GrannyGeek, you said that DVDAuthorGUI accepts mpeg2 straight from QUenc. I remember I tried that and didn't work but if you're sure about this maybe I didn't do it right and I'll give this one too another try.
Trying, asking, trying, asking....I guess this is the path to success in this matter, isnt't it ?

[grannyGeek]

Hey vanderbog --
now you have me doubting my memory, but I'm sure it worked for me the one time I tried it.
well, I'm pretty sure . . . . . . . .

When you "Add Video Track", at the "Select Video Stream" window, be sure to click the drop-down for "file type" and select mpg2 / vob. This list is defaulted to show the elementary streams, you have to select the other file-type manually.

Post back if this doesn't work, because then there is a mystery to solve.

later ----

[vanderbog]

No Granny, there's no mistery to solve, your memory is with you
It works like a charm, it's exactly what I needed: an excelent encoder (QUenc) and a simple authoring software able to handle mpeg2 files straight and mux them with a subtitle or two.
God knows why that AVI2DVD is not working It keeps asking for an audio stream ! Anyway, even if it would have worked....DVDauthorGUI is a better option and the quality is excelent.
Thanks again for your time to post guys ! Thanks granny !

[vanderbog]

Guys, Granny, everybody.....something terrible happened
-It looks excelent on the computer but when I play it on the standalone dvd....the image is shifted to the upper left corner, making visible like half of the image and the rest is black !!
What is this ??
So what I did was to convert the avi to mpeg2 with QUenc and author with DVDAuthorGUI by adding a subtitle. That's it and like I said it looks perfect on the computer.
In QUenc there's a box called "use Trellis Quant" (unmarked). What is this ?
Any idea might be usefull. Thanks guys.

[FulciLives]

Guys, Granny, everybody.....something terrible happened
-It looks excelent on the computer but when I play it on the standalone dvd....the image is shifted to the upper left corner, making visible like half of the image and the rest is black !!
What is this ??
So what I did was to convert the avi to mpeg2 with QUenc and author with DVDAuthorGUI by adding a subtitle. That's it and like I said it looks perfect on the computer.
In QUenc there's a box called "use Trellis Quant" (unmarked). What is this ?
Any idea might be usefull. Thanks guys.

What resolution did you use? Sounds like something an old Pioneer would do when playing back SVCD (480x480) as that model couldn't "handle" that resolution (it was not a SVCD friendly machine that old Pioneer ... actually a big problem for Pioneer for a while there).

So I dunno but sounds like maybe you used an incorrect uncompliant video resolution maybe?

That's only a guess since you didn't tell us your encoding settings in detail.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vanderbog]

Thanks for the prompt reply John.
OK, you might be right about the resolution. I am just looking on the
QUenc settings and do not see anything related to setting the resolution. But there's a setting in DVDAuthorGUI for NTSC/PAL.
My initial video is an Xvid 512x270 at 23fps and want to make a NTSC DVD out of it.
I don't think the player is an issue because I have no problems with it, it plays anything I feed it, it's a Phillips DVP 641 or something (I'm lazy to go upstairs to see ), and it plays DivX by nature.
I am just running the convertion once more now, but with AVI2DVD this time, with QUenc as encoder. But, this one has even less that DVDAuthorGUI !! There's no way to say "I want an NTSC DVD" !
Yes, I do think is a resolution issue and the final is a DVD with the same feeded resolution 512x270....and the player doesn't know what to do with it.
Does any of this lead you to an advice for me ?

[guns1inger]

NTSC DVD full D1 resolution is 720 x 480. The rest can be found under What is DVD (top left corner of this page). As FulciLives pointed out, some players simply cannot play non-standard resolutions correctly. (I had one of the early Pioneers, and never found the lack of VCD support an issue - it always seemed a half-assed format to me. That Pioneer played everything else though - +R and -R and lasted for many years).

[TBoneit]

Leave it as Divx? I have two cheap Divx players for that reason, one a new Phillips that I got to use with a external USB drive and a Toshiba for the living room. The Toshiba is a much better player in terms of features. Sadly I didn't realize that one of the two I had bought had a weak reader in it until past warranty. But the Toshiba has a much better remote with many more fuctions than the Phillips. However I like the phillip as a way to use an External drive. I have to 80Gb set up for use with it organized by content type. Drama on one and comedy on another.

[FulciLives]

NTSC DVD full D1 resolution is 720 x 480. The rest can be found under What is DVD (top left corner of this page). As FulciLives pointed out, some players simply cannot play non-standard resolutions correctly. (I had one of the early Pioneers, and never found the lack of VCD support an issue - it always seemed a half-assed format to me. That Pioneer played everything else though - +R and -R and lasted for many years).

I had a Pioneer 606D which I bought pre-modified (at $750 US Dollars) to be macrovision free and region free (although PAL came out as PAL ... no built-in conversion ... but I had a stand alone PAL to NTSC digital converter box for some PAL VHS tapes I had at the time). This was a 3rd generation Pioneer model that supported DTS when most other company's were still on their 2nd non-DTS models. It was a tank and had a beutiful picture (not progressive scan as that wasn't around yet) and it was still going strong until someone stole it from me about 1 1/2 years ago. It hated CD-R discs unless they were Taiyo Yuden and I got it to do VCD but not SVCD at all. It was fine with DVD-R discs and DVD+RW discs. I miss her especially considering how she was taken from me ...

Anyways ...

I tried Quenc once and wasn't happy with it and got rid of it but if I recall I think you need to do all your resizing via AviSynth. You should be using FitCD to create your AviSynth script ... then input that into Quenc.

Here is my guide on using FitCD ---> CLICK HERE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlanHK]

I am just looking on the
QUenc settings and do not see anything related to setting the resolution.

I think, like most encoders, that you actually should load an AVS file in Quenc, not the AVI file.

This is a series of filters that Avisynth runs on an AVI stream.

So if you haven't already, install Avisynth.
Then FitCd, a little app that helps to create basic Avisynth scripts.
That will resize it for you.

something like:

AVISource("P:\AVIs\01.avi")
LanczosResize(720,480,0,0,512,480)

512x480 probably is 4:3 rather than 16:9 widescreen, if so make sure any ratio settings say 4:3.

It may seem excessively complex, but later you may appreciate the flexibility of the approach.

For instance, all kinds of image processing filters can be used to improve or distort the image; I use a filter to remove TV channel logos quite a lot.

You have 23 fps. Most likely this is 23.976. Quenc should have a "pulldown" button that will make this into 29.997 fps, for NTSC.

[guns1inger]

It is a strange, almost square resolution, and will pillarbox in both a 4:3 and 16:9 frame (but a lot less in 4:3).

Even if Qenc can't do pulldown, you can always do it later with DGPulldown, so stick with 23.976 regardless.

[grannyGeek]

vanderbog, I hope you got your resolution / aspect ratio issue sorted out.

I wonder if this thread put a hex on me --
I've happily used Quenc a number of times with no problems.
Then this weekend, I had two !
So now I am looking at HCenc a lot more fondly, I must say.
< FulciLives, are you a witch doctor??? >

On one test encode, Quenc's pulldown did not take at all.
(on my el-cheapo JWin player, not a problem, it seems to accept 23.97 fps without any playback glitch, but for other players that might cause some kind of major belch.)

On another test encode, fed the Quenc mpeg2 into DvdAuthorGui, authored the dvd --
on playback, the playback on tv shows a rythmic dark / light pulse which might also be related to the Quenc pulldown. But I can't detect a thing wrong using computer playback, using VdubMod or Media Player Classic.
Just another mystery, one that I probably won't even try to solve unless it happens again.

[AlanHK]

On one test encode, Quenc's pulldown did not take at all.
(on my el-cheapo JWin player, not a problem, it seems to accept 23.97 fps without any playback glitch, but for other players that might cause some kind of major belch.)

You can apply pulldown to the MPEG with DGPulldown.
Purists prefer to do it this way, though I let the encoder do it unless I have something weird.

[FulciLives]

HCenc does not apply 3:2 Pulldown correctly either. I still pick that option when encoding 23.976fps material but afterwards I run it through DGPulldown (doing of course 23.976fps ---> 29.970fps) and that "work flow" has yet to fail me.

As for Quenc ... I tried it once about a year ago ... maybe a bit less than that. It worked for me but the quality was not what I expected. I saw way too many MPEG compression artifacts even though I had a pretty decent source and was using a decent bitrate.

I started fooling around with HCenc back around the start of November (2006) so yes I haven't been using it long but so far I've used it for several projects and have been amazed at the quality. It actually seems to be better than CCE when it comes to "low" bitrates.

Oh and another thing about HCenc. Do not use the AUTO GOP option. Manually set it to either 12-2 (for PAL or 23.976fps NTSC) or 15-2 (for 29.970fps NTSC). The auto setting seems to get it wrong and then you get GOP TO LONG errors.

Those two quirks aside (which have easy enough "work-a-rounds") I have found HCenc to be as good as CCE if not better in some instances (i.e., "low" bitrates).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Robert Simandl]

Really? I've never had that issue with HC (started using it and AVIsynth about a month ago too). Just the "GOP too long" errors before taking your suggestion to stop using AutoGOP.

Hey Vanderbog, you might want to take a look at The FilmMachine. It's a freeware front end to AVIsynth, QuEnc, HC, DGPulldown, and several other freeware programs mentioned in this thread. Even if you decide to write your own AVIsynth scripts like I did, The FilmMachine will have already installed those other programs for you.

HCenc does not apply 3:2 Pulldown correctly either. I still pick that option when encoding 23.976fps material but afterwards I run it through DGPulldown (doing of course 23.976fps ---> 29.970fps) and that "work flow" has yet to fail me.

As for Quenc ... I tried it once about a year ago ... maybe a bit less than that. It worked for me but the quality was not what I expected. I saw way too many MPEG compression artifacts even though I had a pretty decent source and was using a decent bitrate.

I started fooling around with HCenc back around the start of November (2006) so yes I haven't been using it long but so far I've used it for several projects and have been amazed at the quality. It actually seems to be better than CCE when it comes to "low" bitrates.

Oh and another thing about HCenc. Do not use the AUTO GOP option. Manually set it to either 12-2 (for PAL or 23.976fps NTSC) or 15-2 (for 29.970fps NTSC). The auto setting seems to get it wrong and then you get GOP TO LONG errors.

Those two quirks aside (which have easy enough "work-a-rounds") I have found HCenc to be as good as CCE if not better in some instances (i.e., "low" bitrates).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[grannyGeek]

FulciLives, a question about the "Closed GOP"---

Oh and another thing about HCenc. Do not use the AUTO GOP option. Manually set it to either 12-2 (for PAL or 23.976fps NTSC) or 15-2 (for 29.970fps NTSC). The auto setting seems to get it wrong and then you get GOP TO LONG errors.

When you say "29.97 fps NTSC", does that include 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown?
or only flat 29.97 fps / "hard-telecined"
???

[FulciLives]

FulciLives, a question about the "Closed GOP"---

Oh and another thing about HCenc. Do not use the AUTO GOP option. Manually set it to either 12-2 (for PAL or 23.976fps NTSC) or 15-2 (for 29.970fps NTSC). The auto setting seems to get it wrong and then you get GOP TO LONG errors.

When you say "29.97 fps NTSC", does that include 23.976 with 3:2 pulldown?
or only flat 29.97 fps / "hard-telecined"
???

OK first thing first.

You have your GOP setting which can be 12-2 or 15-2 etc. then you can select CLOSED GOP or not select CLOSED GOP and have OPEN GOP's.

The AUTO GOP setting in HCenc tries to select the GOP length (i.e., 12-2 or 15-2 etc.) and it seems to not be reliable.

For PAL you should always use 12-2

For NTSC you either have 23.976fps or 29.970fps

23.976fps will always be progressive and you should use 12-2

29.970fps can be a number of things. It can be true interlaced video (like that from a camcorder) or it can be 23.976fps hard-telecined to 29.970fps or it can be progressive (although that is rare).

However it doesn't matter. If your input is 29.970fps then you set the GOP to 15-2 regardless of what type of 29.970fps it is.

Now if you have 29.970fps that is 23.976fps hard-telecined to 29.970fps then you can perform an IVTC to get back to 23.976fps and this is best done in an AviSynth script (using the decomb filter plug-in). However if you do that then although the source is 29.970fps the script does an IVTC back to 23.976fps so in essence you are feeding the encoder 23.976fps progressive ... so you set it to 12-2 and perform the 3:2 Pulldown option (and then run it through DGPulldown to be "safe").

As for OPEN GOP's or CLOSED GOP's ... the DVD spec says that OPEN GOP's are A-OK and that is the usual recommendation as it compresses better that way. However there are some "special cases" where you might want to use CLOSED GOP's and truth-be-told although most people think I'm silly I just like using CLOSED GOP's myself. Somehow it feels "more right" to do that. It might hurt the compression-ability factor some-what but not enough I think to make a big difference and certain things are easier with CLOSED GOP's ... chapter markings ... editing ... the video seems to scan better in a DVD player, etc.

However the only time the DVD spec calls for using CLOSED GOP's is when you are doing a multiple angle DVD. When was the last time you even bought a DVD made that way little alone made one yourself? So yes you don't have to have CLOSED GOP's but that is MY recommendation. Take it however with a grain of salt LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[grannyGeek]

John, Thank you for explaining so clearly.

I'm doing IVTC on NTSC source, so will use 12-2 setting.

I'm learning new things around here every day !

[hank315]

Hi FulciLives, I have a couple of questions.

HCenc does not apply 3:2 Pulldown correctly either

Could you be a bit more specific what goes wrong?

For PAL you should always use 12-2

Why? IMHO for PAL 15-2 is a better setting...

[FulciLives]

Hi FulciLives, I have a couple of questions.

HCenc does not apply 3:2 Pulldown correctly either

Could you be a bit more specific what goes wrong?

It just doesn't seem to work correctly. I had two different programs that got confused by it. Once I ran 3:2 pulldown on those same files (using DGPulldown) then all was well.

For PAL you should always use 12-2

Why? IMHO for PAL 15-2 is a better setting...

I do live in a NTSC world but my understanding is that 12-2 is the "optimal" and "recommended" setting for PAL video.

If you say that I am wrong then that's fine but please provide some documentation, i.e., links to information supporting your comment about 15-2 being the better setting.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[hank315]

I don't have any documentation about it but in general larger GOPs mean better quality because you don't have to encode that many bit consuming I frames.
This is especially true for easy scenes where the Motion Estimation/prediction can do a good job.
But the ISO standard limits it to 15 (30 fields) for PAL and 18 (36 fields) for NTSC.

In case of 3:2 pulldown 14 is the max. GOP length or you will get the 'GOP too long' error, exceeding 36 fields.
Because 14 doesn't make a nice open GOP, it's usually set to 12.
If you use all closed gops then better to use 13-2 so you will get a IPBBPBBPBBPBB gop scheme.

I will change the autoGOP behaviour in HCenc if fps = 23.976 so it will never dump more than 36 fields in a GOP after pulldown.
There were more reports about pulldown not working correctly so something must be wrong
Will have another look at it...

[FulciLives]

Well I admit that I'm really no expert ... although I do tend to think I am

CCE SP suggests using 12-2 for PAL and for 23.976fps NTSC

CCE SP suggests using 15-2 for 29.970fps NTSC

I figured if anyone had it "right" it was the CCE SP team.

As for asking for source documentation ... I wasn't trying to be rude ... I really would like to read up more about it is all.

Anyways in the past I've used TMPGEnc Plus and now CCE SP for a long while ... I've only been using HCenc for a short bit here BUT damn I am very impressed with the quality which I consider to be as good as CCE if not better in some circumstances (i.e., low bitrates).

I do have another question though ... it seems most other MPEG-2 encoders (such as TMPGEnc Plus and CCE) allow the user to select a MIN, AVG and MAX when doing a 2-pass or multi-pass VBR encode. Yet you don't allow for a MIN setting. I am curious as to why and your thoughts on that.

Another curiosity ... why no CBR mode?

I would like to add a big THANK YOU for making such an excellent freeware MPEG-2 encoder!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[hank315]

CCE SP suggests using 12-2 for PAL and for 23.976fps NTSC

CCE SP suggests using 15-2 for 29.970fps NTSC

I figured if anyone had it "right" it was the CCE SP team.

As for asking for source documentation ... I wasn't trying to be rude ... I really would like to read up more about it is all.

Rude, absolutely not I just couldn't find any decent information about it.
There's some info on the Inet about it, some good, some bad but the general consensus is there's not much gain using more than 5 P-frames in a GOP which means a GOP length of 18 using 2 B-frames.
Why CCE suggests using 12-2 for PAL is beyond me, it's certainly not the way most commercial PAL DVD's are encoded, I checked about 10 of them and only one was 12-2 (KingKong), all others were 15-2.

I do have another question though ... it seems most other MPEG-2 encoders (such as TMPGEnc Plus and CCE) allow the user to select a MIN, AVG and MAX when doing a 2-pass or multi-pass VBR encode. Yet you don't allow for a MIN setting. I am curious as to why and your thoughts on that.

Probably bitrate allocation in HCenc is different than the method used in other encoders, in my development code I can set the minimum bitrate very low or zero and that works, it's really low, too low so it looks plain bad, a lot of MacroBlocking.
So HC calculates a reasonable minimum bitrate which mostly is lower than the default used in CCE.

Another curiosity ... why no CBR mode?

This may sound strange but good CBR encoding isn't that easy, VBR is easier to implement.
Maybe CBR will be in one of the future versions.

[FulciLives]

Well thank you for your comments.

I really do think that HCenc is a quality MPEG-2 DVD spec encoder. As I said the quality seems every bit as good as CCE (my favorite for a while now) but HCenc actually seems to work better when the AVG BITRATE is a "low" bitrate and perhaps that has to do with the way you have implemented the MIN bitrate calculation.

Just so I understand and to make it clear to other people reading this:

PAL should be 15-2

NTSC (23.976fps with 3:2 Pulldown) should be 12-2

NTSC (29.970fps) should be 18-2

Would it surprise you if I say that CCE SP uses a setting of 15-2 for NTSC (29.970fps)?

Also a final question I have about CBR encoding ... until you implement CBR encoding (and it sounds like perhaps you may not due to the difficulty of doing so) how can one achieve a CBR-like encode?

Let me explain ... I think I read somewhere (perhaps the doom9 guide) that if you set the AVG and MAX bitrate to the same setting and then set the "VBR bias" to "100" that such settings will approximate a CBR encode.

Your thoughts?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman