Reauthoring multi-angle DVD?

[MatiasR]

Hi again.

I don't know if this is the right section to post this, but I guess the word 'newbie' just won me over.

Anyway, here's the situation: I downloaded an authored multi-angle DVD. It has a nice menu and all, but unfortunately there are no chapters for it. You can only play the whole thing. What I'd like to do, of course, is specify chapters and make a menu that directs me to each of them. The problem is just as obvious: I have no idea how to do that!

I'm working with TMPGEnc DVD Author. I don't know if this app supports multi-angle in the first place. If not, what app would you recommend? Being the newbie I am, I favor easy-to-use software, although I understand that I'll have no choice than to deal with a more high-end software at some point if I want to go further than just converting and burning.

In case TMPGEnc DVD Author does work with multi-angle (which would be really good news), could anyone point me in the right direction? The problem is I can't find a way to make the software acknowledge it's dealing with 2 angles of the same 'piece'. I can only import both 'angles' as separate pieces of video, just as if I was importing two completely different movies. Consequently, chapters will be duplicated: I can choose to watch chapter 1 of Angle 1 or chapter 1 of Angle 2. If there's a way to make both angles 'run parallel', I'd love to know how. And of course any extra useful info you can throw in will be just as appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

[Baldrick]

Nope, no multi angle support. I would use DVD-lab Pro, version 2 supports multi angle but I have never tried it.

[guns1inger]

TDA doesn't support mutli-angles. Very few authoring apps do support true multi-angles. The simplest method of extracting seperate angles is DVD Shrink. If it is true multi-angle, when you load it into Shrink you should see two main titles. You can re-author either of these to a single disk. If they are short enough, you could re-author both to seperate disc structures, then use the Add Video function in TDA to import them, add chapters and a main menu to select which version to watch.

[MatiasR]

Baldrick: Thanks for your quick reply... again! I guess I'll have to look up some info re: DVD-lab Pro to see where it gets me.

guns1inger, I don't quite get what you mean. You wrote:

If it is true multi-angle, when you load it into Shrink you should see two main titles.

As far as I know, it's true multi-angle as in, you can switch from one to the other with the angles option in Power DVD or any playback app that supports it (I haven't tried it in a standalone but I know it works just the same way). I guess this is what you mean, right?

I didn't load it to DVD Shrink, but I did load it to TDA as I explained, and yes I got the two main titles (subtitled Angle 1 & 2).

You can re-author either of these to a single disk. If they are short enough, you could re-author both to seperate disc structures, then use the Add Video function in TDA to import them, add chapters and a main menu to select which version to watch.

This is what I don't understand. I mean, I don't understand why I would want to do it. As I explained before, I was able to import both angles to TDA, but only as disctint movies that you can watch, index, etc., separately but that's exactly what I don't want.

What I want is to keep the multi-angle feature on the DVD while being able to add a nifty menu. But maybe it's way more complex than I thought. By the way, probably a stupid question: I absolutely do need to reauthor the DVD if I want to add a menu with chapters, right? Because it's not just adding a menu, I would also need to index each chapter and specify the proper times. But I don't know, I'm really inexperienced here and I may be missing something so I figured I could just ask.

Ok, thank you two guys for your replies and to the rest for reading! Any insight into this will, again, be greatly appreciated.

[guns1inger]

PGCEdit might be a better tool for this. It can be used to add a menu to discs that don't have them, and can possibly alter chapter points etc. Certainly worth a look.

[mazinz]

you can easily add chapters using dvdremakepro

[guns1inger]

Does DVD Remake Pro handle multi-angle material ?

[mazinz]

I know their was some issue in VERY old versions of the app that was addressed (and fixed in later ones). I can fully test it out once I figure out a title (that I own) that has multi. But for the most part it would still read it fine and you should be able to do what you want. All you would be doing is splitting the cells to make your chapter points, nothing fancy

[canadateck]

DVD Architect does Multiangle video,If that helps.

[MatiasR]

Thanks a lot for all the replies. I guess I'll have to do some serious research because many apps have been suggested. I started with DVD-lab Pro which of course has left me scratching my head as I'm no expert and this program does look pro.

What I don't understand is, considering the DVD I downloaded is already authored as a multi-angle movie, is there a way to make DVD-lab Pro import it correctly? I found the multi-angle option but the fact that it shows Angle 1 to 4 as different 'objects' you can import a file to makes me wonder if the only way this would work is if I had the 2 angles separated in different files instead of having them already interlaced into one movie.

What about those apps that let me add chapters etc. without reauthoring? Will multi-angle work with those?

Sorry for the sheer quantity of questions but I'm really trying to learn from scratch here! Thank you for all your support. I hope I can get it done in the end!

[guns1inger]

No. You can attach it as an external VTS, but DLP is for authoring discs, not editing existing discs.

Either extract the angles and reauthor from scratch (possibly beyond you at this stage or your experience) or look at DVD Remake Pro (not free)

[MatiasR]

No. You can attach it as an external VTS, but DLP is for authoring discs, not editing existing discs.

Either extract the angles and reauthor from scratch (possibly beyond you at this stage or your experience) or look at DVD Remake Pro (not free)

So you mean PGCEdit will not work either?

This may be hopeless but, how about any freeware alternative to DVD Remake Pro? Is there any?

[MatiasR]

...or, let's put it this way: there is a big chance I won't need to do such a thing again (messing with multi-angle) in a long, long while. How about the DVD Remake Pro trial version? Or does it have restrictions as to what I can do? I've just downloaded it and it looks like I can save the stuff I make (sometimes demos don't let you) so it looks like it should work.

Now, the big Question... There's not a chance there can be a guide for what I need to do, right? Could someone please help me out with some idiot-proof hints? Remember: the angles are already merged together, so that when I play one of the VOBs, it'll keep skipping from one angle to the other, repeating each small section of the video.

Again, help is much appreciated!

[guns1inger]

I have just used the multi-angle feature in DVD Lab Pro, and it is a breeze. It might be simpler to extract both angles, and re-author a multi-angle title in the DLP2 30 day demo. Use Shrink in re-author mode to get both titles (angles), then create a multi-angle title in DLP2, add chapters, menus etc and compile.

[MatiasR]

guns1inger, I tried your suggestion. I extracted the 2 angles as separate movies with DVD Shrink in re-author mode, then created the multi-angle title in DLP2.

Everything seemed ok... but then I got this error message in the little test it runs on the project before compiling the DVD.

Here's the exact message I got:

Title 01 - Type - Multi Angles
Wrong video type for multi angle application
Angle 1, Video File C:\Documents and Settings\Administrador\Mis documentos\4\angle 1.VOB
Frame size: 720 X 480
Frame rate 4 [1--23.976, 2--24, 4--29.97, 3--25, 5--30]
Aspect Ratio: 43 [43--4:3, 169--16:9]
MPEG Video Type: 2 [1--MPEG 1, 2--MPEG 2]
Chroma: 1 [1--4:2:0, 2--4:2:2, 3--4:4:4]
GOP 1, size - 370685
GOP 2, size - 378880
GOP 3, size - 328569
Wrong video type for multi angle application


Totally clueless here, any idea of what that could be?

[MatiasR]

I've tried running through the process a couple of times, always the same result:

Wrong video type for multi angle application

This goes for each of the 2 movies (angles), which were extracted with DVD Shrink in reauthor mode from the original mutiangle movie; then imported to DLP2, one for each angle.

Whenever I click on Compile DVD, the test report runs and gives me that warning.

So I must assume no one knows what my problem is?
Or have I supplied little/unclear information?

Please let me know and I'll try my best. I'd really love to get this done.

[manono]

So I must assume no one knows what my problem is?

The way I see it, your problems are two-fold:
1. You downloaded crap, a multi-angle DVD with no chapters.
2. You're trying to keep the angles while inserting chapters.

My suggestion is to strip out one of the angles, demux what's left, add chapters in the form of a celltimes.txt, or whatever your authoring app takes, and reauthor.

If it couldn't be compiled in DVDLab Pro, then perhaps whoever you got it from had reencoded it using open GOPS, where multi-angle DVDs require closed GOPS. Just a guess, though. But it would explain the error, and it would provide a real good reason for you to stop beating your head against a wall, and just keep one of the angles, where open GOPs are OK.

[MatiasR]

1. You downloaded crap, a multi-angle DVD with no chapters.

Now that you mention it, I later downloaded a different source that does have chapters. That is the one I actually processed. So the above quote would not apply anymore. Sorry I forgot to bring that to the table.

Now, you said one of my problems was the lack of chapters. Now that you know it's not a problem anymore, can you think of any easy way to work this out? Remember that the way I did it, I lost the chapters anyway right from the start.

The way I did it would be:

a. Exctract multi-angle movie with DVD Shrink into 2 separate ones -> therefore losing the chapters

b. Import them to DVD Lab Pro as Angle #1 & Angle #2

c. Insert chapters and create menu.

Maybe I can use a software that lets me just add a menu to an already authored / chaptered multi-angle movie?

[canadateck]

DVD Architect does Multiangle video,If that helps.

[manono]

I thought this whole thread was about getting chapters back into a multi-angle DVDR. If it has chapters and a menu, what's the problem? Why are you reauthoring?

It has a nice menu and all

So, let me get this straight. The original one, the one you wasted guns1inger's time with, has a menu but no chapters, and the newer version has chapters but no menu? Whoever created these beauties didn't know what he was doing, but then not many people do, when it comes to handling multi-angled DVDs. My advice still stands. Strip out one of the angles and take it from there. It can be done while keeping the chapters. And no, you don't use DVD Shrink.

You can use the menu from the first DVD (chapterless) for the second DVD (menuless?) by importing it using PGCEdit (Menu->Import Menu), I'm pretty sure. No reencoding, and you'll keep the angles (I think) and chapters.

[MatiasR]

Ok first of all, I don't think I really have to put up with this crap to get some help. I've tried my best to be as polite as I could, so I expect nothing less in return. And forgive me for downloading useless, badly done videos but you know what? I couldn't find anything better. If I had, I wouldn't be struggling to get it right, would I?

If I 'wasted' guns1inger's time it's because I didn't have anything better then. I found what seemed like an upgrade and downloaded it. That's what I'm trying to work with now. By the way, I didn't hear him complaining. He was actually very helpful and polite. And I know you're trying to be just as helpful but I don't really need to be the target of your general newbies' frustrations. This is the kind of thing that keeps people who want to learn away from these places and I think it's a real shame.

Anyway, both the original (unchaptered) and (chaptered) upgrade have a menu, but it's a simple -even if nicely done- menu with the only options to 'Play All' or to see the Credits. No chapter selection. So it's nice, but useless too. I want to replace that menu with one that has chapters. I made one with DLP but got that error message when compiling the DVD.

My advice still stands. Strip out one of the angles and take it from there. It can be done while keeping the chapters.

I don't want to lose one angle, that's the whole point of this.

Thank you for your help.

Matias

ps Sorry if I overreacted here, I know this won't make me really popular in the forums, especially knowing manono is an active poster who've helped lots of people I'm sure. But I've been reading many threads and this is not the first time I see this kind of behavior. Sometimes I do understand you, honestly: people who just ask anything without even doing their homework, etc. It gets frustrating even for someone like me who knows just about nothing. But I've tried my best to help you help me and I don't think I deserve to be "accused" of wasting anyone's time by posting a question to a forum. Nice way to encourage newbies to participate.

[guns1inger]

I'm not sure why you are getting upset, as reading back there seems to be nothing but helpful suggestions. I'm sorry you aren't getting to a solution yet, but multi-angle work is rare, even in commercial discs, and not a lot of software supports it properly, if at all. This means that we don't necessarily have the answers on tap, as we might for other problems.

Are the running times identical for both videos ?

DLP is still a viable solution, but as pointed out, your video is currently not compliant for multi-angle work. A re-encoding of the video with closed GOPS, matching framerate and correct bitrate will solve this. See the DLP manual for the restrictions on multi-angle source material.

I ask about the runtime because branching material done using playlists can also appear to be multi-angle in DVD Shrink and other software, although in reality it isn't. If the runtimes are different, it is more likely to be branching than true mutli-angle.

[manono]

Your last post is the first time I've seen you state clearly what you have and what the problem is. If earlier you had said something to the effect of:

I have a multi-angle DVD with a rudimentary menu and chapters, but no chapters menu. How can I create a chapters menu at the same time keeping the angles?

then I, for one, would have understood better.

So, you might respond that you didn't need to say that because all you wanted was help in creating the chapters in DLP. To which I would respond that with a full detailed explanation, often other easier solutions can be suggested, such as mine about importing what I thought was a good menu using PGCEdit. But my suggestion was no good, as I was under the impression (after you admitted neglecting to inform us that you now had a slightly better version with chapters) that you had lost the menu using DVD Shrink, and just wanted to get it back. There's no such thing as providing too much information, and we can then sort out what's important and what's not. It's when we're forced to guess that we get frustrated. guns1inger has the patience of a saint. I don't.

It seems fairly clear to me that some idiot just took the vobs and reencoded them, without regard to the ILVU/Angles. He maybe then just reinserted the reencoded vobs back into the DVD, deleting the old and replacing with new. If that's true, I think you're probably doomed, even if you knew what you're doing, which, by your own admission, you don't.

Just about the only reasonable way to reencode a DVD at the same time keeping the angles, chapters, menu, etc., is with DVD-Rebuilder Pro. That wasn't done here. Good luck.

[MatiasR]

guns1inger: I got upset about the way manono replied to me in his last couple of posts. No big deal, but I really thought it was kinda gratitious to treat me that way, that's all.

And yes, all I've seen -save for that detail- is the best wills to help me out. I really appreciate that. I didn't get frustrated because I couldn't solve my problem either. I knew right from the start it wouldn't be easy for a newbie and I was more than ready to fail, lol. It's just I thought manono was too hard on me without reason.

Just wanted to remind English is not my mother language, so please bear with me. Believe me I am doing my best but it's still a disadvantage.

The 2 videos are indentical in running time. I might recall that I got these videos (each angle) separatedly only after reauthoring the original source with DVD Shrink. The original source was an already chaptered, authored and fully functional multiangle movie.

I don't know the technical word for this, but the original multiangle movie had the angles 'intertwined' so to speak. Which means that if you played the raw VOB files instead of running the DVD normally, you would see each section of the movie twice (one for each angle). Like, say, it plays the segment from 00:00 to 00:02 on angle 1, then the same segment on angle 2, then it moves to the next segment, 00:04.

The original source plays fine and you can switch from one angle to the other without any problems, good sync, etc. It's after I split it into 2 angles as was suggested and try to import it to DLP to add chapter menu & reauthor that it gets screwed up. Somewhere in the process I must be doing something wrong, I guess.

manono: If I didn't state the problem clearly right from the start it's because the problem changed midway through when I got part of the problem solved by getting a new, chaptered version.
The neglection you mention took place for the eternity of 2 posts. Yours, were you get misguided by my omision, and the next one, mine, where I correct myself. I don't think you need the patience of a saint to put up with that.

The other confusion, about your misconception that the menu 'was good', I did say that. I said it looked nice, but was useless as it didn't have chapter selection. I don't quite get what all those things you were forced to guess are, honestly.

And in the end, if my explanation was so poor as your fully detailed description suggests, you could just asked the info you needed from me instead of being harsh out of frustration.

"[...] have I supplied little/unclear information? Please let me know and I'll try my best."

That was the last message I had posted before you hopped in to help me out. I was precisely admitting that due to my lack of knowledge I might have had omitted relevant information and that I'd be more than glad to make up for that in order to help you help me. It's not like I threw a brief explanation and then bitched and moaned when I didn't find the solution in your replies.

Thanks again for all your help.

[guns1inger]

The issue as it now stands appears to be that you have two angles of the same movie, which you wish to author into a new DVD with a new menu and chapter selection, however the video is not compliant with your multi-angle authoring tool. A secondary issue is that you seem to have your angles in VOB structures at the moment.

The simplest solution, at this stage, would be to re-encode the video to be compliant with DLPs multi-angle processing. That is :

a) 720 or 704 x 480 (Yours is already 720, so leave it that way)
b) Bitrate below 7500kbps for each angle. I would suggest CBR at around 7400 kbps, a number I have used successfully in the past
c) Close, fixed GOPs. CCE or Mainconcept can do this.

If you can do this, you should have no trouble putting things back together again in DLP.

I would also suggest demuxing your assets before bringing them into DLP. VOBs aren't the best container for your assets when working with DLP.

[MatiasR]

guns1inger: Thank you so much for your reply; I will definitely try that. I think I can get it to work... and if not of course I'll run to these forums hehe.

Now, as I'm in the process of learning, I want to know something just to find out what the logic to this is.

Is it possible to only add a selection menu (the only thing missing now) to an already authored / chaptered movie such as this without reauthoring? I've seen references to apps that use what they call dummy movies to make menus and then replace them with the original. I'm wondering if such a thing is possible with a movie with multi-angle, which seems to be the complication here.

Thanks again for all your suggestions.

[guns1inger]

The complication is more tham just adding a simple "play movie" type front menu. You need a chapter selection menu and to add chapter points as well. This ups the complexity level a couple of notches. Others may have a different view - I don't spend much time re-authoring discs unless it is to remove menus completely. But I have yet to see a simple solution for re-chaptering an authored disc, let alone dropping in a chapter selection menu afterwards.

[MatiasR]

I see. But do I need to add chapter points / rechapter when the original already has the chaptering done?

[guns1inger]

It's that language barrier again - from your first post :

[qoute]but unfortunately there are no chapters for it[/quote]

I read this as there are no chapter marks or menus on the disc.

Personally, I wouldn't bother - the remote can skip chapters easily. However if you want to try it, you could have a look at

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=705#705

However you will have to extrapolate this to your needs, and don't forget you need to add a button to the original menu to get to the chapter menu. If it were me, I would probably create a whole new set of menus and replace what's there entirely (actually, I would just use the remote)

[MatiasR]

Yeah, again, sorry... I'm still getting used to the most basic terminology here. Of course now it's clear that what I tried to say was that there wasn't a chapter menu.

As you say, the remote can easily skip through the chapters and once I got my hands on the chaptered version I really doubted if I needed to work on this anymore since my main concern was precisely not being able to skip through the set, which I can now.

To be honest, as soon as I found this upgraded copy I was ready to let this all go, but I got interested in the learning process more than in the results; that is, even if I didn't really needed to anymore, I wanted to work it out.

But I guess I underestimated the problems that come associated with a multi-angle production (at least for someone who doesn't fully know what he's doing - I bet a knowledgeable person can reauthor this set with his eyes closed while playing Minesweeper).

I'm gonna try some of your suggestions just for the sake of trying, to see how much more I can learn in the process which has become my main point with all this. But on the other hand, I'm thinking this is probably gonna be the only time I really have to deal with multi-angle stuff so I'm not sure it's really worth the hassle (yours and mine!) because how many more times will I have the chance to apply what I can learn from this experience?

Oh well, I'll give it a few shots before saving the last shot to my PC and burning the DVD as is, lol. But not without trying.