Will this PC do for editing 1080i HDV in 4:2:2?

[saugox]

Hey all, been lurking around this forum forever, but this is my first post.
I need a PC that easily can edit and color correct 1080i HDV in 4:2:2 as shot by Panasonics HVX200.

This is the specs for what I plan to buy:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
XFX GeForce 7900GT 256MB DDR3
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V300F0 300GB 7200rpm 16MB SATA2
Corsair XMS2-6400 Xtreme 2x1024MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz

Comments on this would be greatly appreciated. Should I replace something or is this a good setup? Thanks.

Cheers! /Markus

[edDV]

Hey all, been lurking around this forum forever, but this is my first post.
I need a PC that easily can edit and color correct 1080i HDV in 4:2:2 as shot by Panasonics HVX200.

This is the specs for what I plan to buy:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40GHz
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
XFX GeForce 7900GT 256MB DDR3
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6V300F0 300GB 7200rpm 16MB SATA2
Corsair XMS2-6400 Xtreme 2x1024MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz

Comments on this would be greatly appreciated. Should I replace something or is this a good setup? Thanks.

Cheers! /Markus

First, the Panasonic HVX-200 is not a HDV camcorder. It records in these formats

DV 480i/576i with standard MiniDV tape recording and DV format IEEE-1394 transfer
DVCPRO 25Mb/s 4:1:1 480i, 576i
DVCPRO 50Mb/s 4:2:2 480i, 480p/24, 576i, 576p
DVCPRO HD 100Mb/s 4:2:2 960x720 (output scaled to 1280x720p), 1280x1080i/29.97 and 1440x1080i/25 (output scaled to 1920x1080i)

Only DV format is recorded to tape. The others must use P2 cards (expensive) that can be accessed either as an external drive under network control, or read from a standard PC card slot.
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&store...odel=AG-HVX200

All of the above formats are compressed 25Mb/s to 100Mb/s (plus audio) so they are well within transfer range for a second 7200RPM PATA/SATA ATA133up desktop drive (separate from OS drive). Single drive notebooks will probably struggle with DVCPRO 50/100.

Processing 4:2:2 or DVCPro HD is another story and will require as much raw CPU power as you can afford. If you plan to decompress HD, you will need an industrial strength hardware controlled RAID. People get around this problem using lightly compressed "Digital Intemediate" formats like CineForm. Consult the requirements of your particular editing and color correction software.

[rallynavvie]

You need to look at dual-socket, not just dual-core, in order to get the most processing power from a single Windows system.

Fortunately you can save a lot of money by getting a cheaper video card. Hell, I have a GeForce 4400 than can handle HDV. If you're looking for hardware decoding capabilities you'll have to look to a workstation card like a Quadro. I think some of the more recent ones have HD-decoding for a few of the more common compressed formats.

[saugox]

Thanks, I realize that I should get a second HDD for the OS. How much performance would be gained by running the OS on a 10.000 RPM drive?

I've got a Firestore for the HVX200 (so f***n' impractical but who can afford the P2 cards?) so I do get the DVCPRO HD data, however I've realized that for my production now CineForm will do just fine, I can't notice any quality loss at all.

The cheapest 256mb Quadro card is still twice as expensive as the 7900GT, and I don't have a budget for that and dual sockets. Processing 4:2:2 will have to wait for future productions...

So with this system I will be editing CineForm HDV using Premiere Pro 2, I'm not sure which color correction software to use yet. I will evaluate the trial versions of Combustion and Lustre, maybe that Avid app. For doing this, a Core 2 Duo with 2GB 800mhz ram should work, neh? I can still upgrade to Quadro and 8GB RAM later on.

[normcar]

You do not need a 10,000 RPM HD for you OS. Your machine may boot a little faster, but the price difference would not be worth it. The best HD configuration would be at least 3 drives. One for OS, and 2 for video processing from one to the other. For ripping a movie, processing, and shrinking, I do the following.

My OS is on drive C. I rip to drive D. I do a vobblanker to drive E. I then do a DVDShrink to Drive D, and Burn to drive F. For best processing you should have the drives D & E on different controllers.

This is a minimal setup, and I actually have a DVD writer, DVD reader, a floppy, and 7 HDs in my video processing computer. I have the 2 MB controllers and 4 more on 2 controller cards.

For faster video processing, buy the fastest cpu you can afford. Having seperate HDs on seperate controllers and a fast CPU are the 2 most important speed considerations. Any additional speed improvements such as 10,000 RPMs and/or SATA drives are of secondary importance to CPU processing speed.

Also purchase a new cooler for the CPU, because the CPU will run at 100% for several minutes to several hours. The standard CPU coolers are not meant to meet this standard.

[saugox]

thanks normcar, that's good stuff. Three HDD sounds like a good idea, I will be encoding video so it should improve performance.

The Intel Core 2 Duo seems to be performing well in tests, and it's reasonably priced, so that's probably what I'll get. Dual sockets seems like overkill at the moment.

[rallynavvie]

Dual sockets are never overkill when it comes to raw encoding 8)

You still don't need to spend so much on a video card. Anything that will support your desired display configuration will work. The only reason you would need a high-end consumer card like that (and with that much VRAM) is for gaming. The whole point in the power of those cards is for 3D work, but video is simply 2D. The VRAM is really only utilized when it needs to buffer textures and the like, I don't think it's ever used for video.

Premiere will work for color correction, though I tended to use AfterEffects with Magic Bullet for better results.

[edDV]

Thanks, I realize that I should get a second HDD for the OS. How much performance would be gained by running the OS on a 10.000 RPM drive?

A normal 7200 RPM drive will work fine. There is no need to a fast OS drive. They are expensive and noisy.

I've got a Firestore for the HVX200 (so f***n' impractical but who can afford the P2 cards?) so I do get the DVCPRO HD data, however I've realized that for my production now CineForm will do just fine, I can't notice any quality loss at all.

I hope you got the new version Firestore FS-100 that reads in P2 MXF format for all the DVCPro modes rather than just the DV mode. Another popular hard drive for the HVX-200 is the CitiDISK.
http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=150
http://www.shining.com/store/home.php?cat=253

The cheapest 256mb Quadro card is still twice as expensive as the 7900GT, and I don't have a budget for that and dual sockets. Processing 4:2:2 will have to wait for future productions...

The Quadro isn't necessary for editing applications. The OpenGL modes are used for 3D graphics modeling and CAD. All you need is a low end current generation consumer ATI or NVidia card. Try to get one with "AVIVO" or "Pure Video" HD decoding features. The low end card works just as well as the high end card for 2D.

So with this system I will be editing CineForm HDV using Premiere Pro 2, I'm not sure which color correction software to use yet. I will evaluate the trial versions of Combustion and Lustre, maybe that Avid app. For doing this, a Core 2 Duo with 2GB 800mhz ram should work, neh? I can still upgrade to Quadro and 8GB RAM later on.

Read the system requirements for each application. I doubt there is any advantage using a Quadro card but it may be the case. It should be all about raw CPU power.


PS: DVCProHD in 1440x1080i/25 is a good match for Premiere Pro HDV Cineform mode which is also 1440x1080i/25. In 29.97 fps DVCProHD would be 1280x1080i and would require a rescale.

[saugox]

You still don't need to spend so much on a video card. Anything that will support your desired display configuration will work. The only reason you would need a high-end consumer card like that (and with that much VRAM) is for gaming. The whole point in the power of those cards is for 3D work, but video is simply 2D. The VRAM is really only utilized when it needs to buffer textures and the like, I don't think it's ever used for video.

You've got a point. Though I read that Premiere does use the Graphic card memory, in oppose to some other editing systems, so I thought I should put some money there. A Quadro with 128mb is perhaps a better investment. Thenagain, I'd like the machine to be "Fallout 3" ready Anyways...

I hope you got the new version Firestore FS-100 that reads in P2 MXF format for all the DVCPro modes rather than just the DV mode. Another popular hard drive for the HVX-200 is the CitiDISK.

Yup, it's the P2 MXF format, never heard of the CitiDISK it looks interesting, maybe it hasn't arrived in europe yet... Now I'm just waiting for a Premiere update that will allow capture directly from the Firestone, I heard FinalCut can do that. And you'r completly right about the HDD's.

The Quadro isn't necessary for editing applications. The OpenGL modes are used for 3D graphics modeling and CAD. All you need is a low end current generation consumer ATI or NVidia card. Try to get one with "AVIVO" or "Pure Video" HD decoding features. The low end card works just as well as the high end card for 2D.

I noticed Geforce 7900GT did have the "Pure video" feature. I will look for the AVIVO thingie... AVID appears to recommend Quadro for any of thier applications, but I suppose it's not really needed. Though a low end card would perhaps not be enough for Premiere Pro 2?

Thanks for the advices. I realize I could study this forever, he... but I need this workstation like, a week ago, will place the order this weekend. And one can always upgrade later on.

[saugox]

The Quadro isn't necessary for editing applications. The OpenGL modes are used for 3D graphics modeling and CAD. All you need is a low end current generation consumer ATI or NVidia card. Try to get one with "AVIVO" or "Pure Video" HD decoding features. The low end card works just as well as the high end card for 2D.

I read something about AVIVO having a 10-bit pipeline, and something about 12-bit capturing. Is this unique to AVIVO or can "Pure Video" perform this as well? From reviews it seems "Pure video" is doing better at de-interlacing though, but color depth is prio. So what kind of support does "Pure Video" have for 10/12-bit video?

btw. I'm now looking at a 7600GT card, the 7900GT would be overkill for a editing machine as some of you mentioned. Both have the "pure video" feature. So I'm not sure about the GPU yet, but the rest of the config looks like this:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz
Asus P5W DH Deluxe,
Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2, 2048MB
2x. Samsung SpinPoint P120S 250GB SATA2 8MB 7200RPM
Cooler Master Cavalier 3 chassi with a Hiper ATX 580W

So recommendations on GPU appreciated, will probably place the order this evening. Probably I'll get the XFX 7600GT, but I will read some more about AVIVO and "pure video" before I decie.[/quote]

[jagabo]

From reviews it seems "Pure video" is doing better at de-interlacing

That deinterlacing is only for viewing video on the computer monitor (eg, watching TV). It doesn't have anything to do with video editing.