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  1. Member
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    Hi,
    I am supposed to choose a dvd writer with one of these connection: pcmcia directly, usb2, firewire.
    My laptop has got no firewire nor usb2 ports, so, I should buy a pcmcia adapter to have such connections. And I thought: if they make a pcmcia version of the drive, is it not better, faster, surer, and simpler than to buy an pcmcia-to-usb or to-firewire adapter? Or these usb and firewire adapter, even if they work through a pcmcia slot, are faster than a direct pcmcia connection?
    The brand is Origin Storage. Does anybody know it?
    Is it really so dramatic the compatibility matter, that I need to buy only the drives which Dell suggests?
    Thanks!
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    I would opt for a USB2/firewire unit and buy an usb2/firewire combo card.

    Many external IDE cards are PCMCIA (16 bits - ISA like) adapters. Alamost all USB2/firewire laptop cards are are cardbus (32 bit bits - PCI like) pcmcia.

    In general get the 32 bits solution. An external USB2 or firewire will work just fine. But firewire in a laptop is a bit better options because this interface consumes less CPU under the same loading.
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    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    I would opt for a USB2/firewire unit and buy an usb2/firewire combo card.
    Many external IDE cards are PCMCIA (16 bits - ISA like) adapters. Alamost all USB2/firewire laptop cards are are cardbus (32 bit bits - PCI like) pcmcia.
    In general get the 32 bits solution. An external USB2 or firewire will work just fine. But firewire in a laptop is a bit better options because this interface consumes less CPU under the same loading.
    Well,
    sorry but Youīll have to explain it further, because I donīt get You: why it must be usb-firewire combo and not just firewire? Can the drive be connected both via usb and firewire at a same time?
    What do You mean for external ide carc, and what is its difference with a pcmcia adpter which give two additional usb ports (or 1 usb 1 firewire)?

    Interesting the date about cpu usage...
    All this is valid for external hard disk too? Because I will buy also an external hard disk (suggestions permitted :P )
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    Originally Posted by Sir Joe
    ... I donīt get You: why it must be usb-firewire combo and not just firewire? Can the drive be connected both via usb and firewire at a same time?
    Actually you do not need to a combo card. You will do fine with a firewire only or USB2 only card. But if you get a combo card you will have more options in the long term

    If you have a drive that supports both UDB and firewire, you will connect the drive using only one interface. But by having a drive with both port you will be able to use it in other machines very straightforward.


    Originally Posted by Sir Joe
    What do You mean for external ide carc, and what is its difference with a pcmcia adpter which give two additional usb ports (or 1 usb 1 firewire)?
    A PCMCIA IDE card is an external adapter as you can remove at will without the need of opening your computer.

    I have not seen PCMCIA cards that will give you IDE, USB and firewire. But if you have a USB2 pc card you can get a usb2 to IDE cable


    Originally Posted by Sir Joe
    Interesting the date about cpu usage...
    All this is valid for external hard disk too? Because I will buy also an external hard disk
    Yes, this is valid for external hard disk also. In general USB2 will be OK if you do not plug additional devices to the card. Also under the same load, USB will consume more CPU that firewire, because the CPU is in charge for every single bit transferred through the USB bus. Finally the overhead in the USB protocol is higher than the protocol used in firewire.
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    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    if you get a combo card you will have more options in the long term ... by having a drive with both port you will be able to use it in other machines very straightforward.
    YEs, true!

    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    A PCMCIA IDE card is an external adapter ... if you have a USB2 pc card you can get a usb2 to IDE cable
    Ok, now I got it. This should be something like that? : http://www.expnet.com/product.nsf/Price+for+Calculation/81C5133032D6809A882565460033E7EB
    Well, it is not an adapter, but a connection...
    The drive I had to buy went with a usb to ide cable, or firewire to ide cable, or pcmcia to ide cable like this one. So I was asking if it was better this pcmcia to ide... I have no idea if this card at the end of the cable would be 16 or 32 bits...
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    I think you should get the USB adapter, and get a USB2 or USB2/firewire combo card.

    You have a capable, but older system, but If you intend to add an external HD, I think you should go with the usb2/firewire combo adapter. You will be able to use your burner with the USB2 port and the hard drive through the firewire port.

    I think you should consider alternate drives. Like the Lite-On SLW-831SX Read more abou it in here: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=16951
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  7. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    PCMCIA is a parallel connection. USB and Firewire are serial. You will get better performance with a PCMCIA connection, unless there is some interposed hardware provides a bottleneck. Today's heavy use of serial connections is a cost motivated issue and may or may not have enough bandaids to give you the same performance as a parallel connection.
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  8. 1. IDE and PCMCIA and compact flash are all based on ISA bus.
    2. Both Cardbus and PCMCIA are 16 bits.
    3. PCMCIA will be faster, but that flat cable will be a pain to deal with. USB is more practical.
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    Originally Posted by SingSing
    2. Both Cardbus and PCMCIA are 16 bits.


    Cardbus is the 32 bits implementation of pcmcia. For general information check this link: http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Cardbus.html

    In general USB and firewire cards will only be available in PCI (any implementation) or cardbus.
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  10. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    16 bit is still 16x wider than 1 bit. The big step in inconvenience is having to deal with an external box, flat vs round cable is secondary.
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  11. Due to the +12V power of the Harddisk. The external Harddisk drive will always in an external box with its power supply, for either PCMCIA or USB.
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    Originally Posted by oldandinthe way
    16 bit is still 16x wider than 1 bit. The big step in inconvenience is having to deal with an external box, flat vs round cable is secondary.
    firewire has a maximum transfer rate of 400 Mbps, 50MB/s, less some overhead.

    ISA 16, in theory had a maximum transfer rate of 16MB/s.

    High speed serial transfers are faster than low speed parallel tranfers.

    If the ide card is 32 bit cardbus, the interface will be faster than USB or firewire.

    If the card is 16 bits pcmcia, usb2 or firewire will be a faster option and firewire will consume less cpu.
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    Originally Posted by SingSing
    2. Both Cardbus and PCMCIA are 16 bits.
    I checked my notebook specs, here is what it say about pc card:
    PC Card:
    PCI controller Texas Instruments PCI 1225 CardBus controller
    PC Card connectors two Type I cards, two Type II cards, or one Type III card
    Cards supported 3.3 V and 5 V
    PC Card connector size 68 pins
    Data width (maximum) 32 bits

    As I can have seen by the pictures, they call Pc Card the slots for pcmcia...
    SO, in this case, it should be better to connect directly whit this strange cable with a pc card at the end, I guess...
    Anyway, I am seeing that dvd writer data transfer usually is 30 mbps or a little more... at least, slimline ones....
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    Originally Posted by SingSing
    Due to the +12V power of the Harddisk. The external Harddisk drive will always in an external box with its power supply, for either PCMCIA or USB.
    I am afraid I do not understand...
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  15. There are two sizes of hard disk and their respective encolusres : 2.5" and 3.5".

    The 2.5" HD are designed for laptop, and use +5V to run the motor. They run slower, has smaller capacity, and cost twice or more vs their 3.5" counter part. If you only need about 60GB of slower HD, then you can get a USB powered(at about 4.5V) 2.5" HD in a enclosure for laptop.

    The 3.5" HDs are fast, high capacity, and dirt cheap. Their motors are powered by +12V that draw a quite a lot of power. +12V is not available from USB or PCMCIA, and thus the 3.5" enclosure has its own +12V supply, that need to plug into AC.
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    I was convinced that in this thread someone told me to use the dvd writer with usb, and hard disk with firewire, but I canīt find it...
    I was wondering about the reason of this solution...
    I checked for hard disk, youīre right, thanks, I didnīt know it... I see that 3.5 are not so big, I will buy this...
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    Ok, Iīve found the quote, was Ofbara!
    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    If you intend to add an external HD, I think you should go with the usb2/firewire combo adapter. You will be able to use your burner with the USB2 port and the hard drive through the firewire port.
    OfBarea, as You gave me the fish, could you also teach me to fish? What makes you prefer to connect one thing in usb and the other in firewire, and so precisely, the drive in usb and the hard isk in firewire and not the opposite or both firewire or both usb? It is a so precise sentence that you made me very curious to lern and understand!
    I ask you also because I need to know soon to tell to the shop what to search for (I have an pen account on a shop in my city because I buyed something and had to return it. Here nobody give your money back. So, I have, yes or yes, to buy something here. Or the drive, or the hard disk...)
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  18. Member SaSi's Avatar
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    Let's give a "fishing" lesson:

    A DVD burner burning at 16x will only need a ~30MB/sec bandwidth. This is how much data per second goes through at 16x burning speed.

    A fast IDE controller in a modern PC gives a sustained bandwidth of 70~75 MB/sec (only seen in fast 10,000 rpm IDE or SATA Hard disks). More common 7200rpm disks top out at 55~60MB/sec sustained.

    NOTICE: You are not interested in peak burst mode data transfer figures, as recording a DVD means sustained data transfer of 4.36Gb of data through the interface.

    Hard disk fragmentation or other implications in the Operating system condition (age, lots of drivers installed, etc) can result in a reduced sustained data transfer rate from the disk, to the extent that you may not be able to record at a speed higher than 4x (~7.5MB/sec) even using the bult-in IDE or SATA controller. I have seen on my system that a clean re-installation of the OS solved the maximum burn speed problem magically...

    Now, on to the laptop interface options for the burner.

    We start with the fact that the laptop has a 2.5" drive which rotates not at 10.000rpm, not at 7.200 rpm but at 5.400rpm. This gives an even more reduced sustained throughput than ordinary IDE disks. Let's assume it is in the range of 40~45MB/sec.

    The USB2 interface provides a 480MBPS (Mega Bits per sec) bandwidth. This translates to 48 MB/sec bandwidth.

    The FireWire interface provides a nominal 400MBPS and FireWire2 interface 800MBPS bandwidth. These convert to about 40MB/sec and 80MB/sec transfer rate.

    Some people say that FireWire provides a better sustained performance compared to the slightly faster (on paper) USB2. I have never seen any difference in performance between the two, perhaps because the end devices (hard drives) were the bottlenecks and did not allow either interfaces to their maximum performance.

    Going back to 16x recording, we see that the burner "consumes" data at a max rate of 30MB/sec while the USB2 interface can provide them at a max. rate of 48MB/sec. This (at least on paper) means that a DVD Burner connected on a USB2 port will happily burn at 16x (or at least the USB2 port will not be the reason if 16x burning is not possible).

    In practice, I have experimented on this in the following way.

    My laptop has 4 USB2 ports. I connected a burner on one USB port and burned a DVD at 16x with data from the laptops hard drive. Actual burning speed was much closer to 8x~12x (data rate was on average 15~20MB/sec).

    I repeated the burning using an external 200GB HD connected to another USB port of the laptop. Burning speed was now much closer to 16x and burning time was almost half of the previous test.

    This (to me) proves that the USB2 interface had the juice to pass the data at the required speed, provided the data source (Hard Disk) could feed the data at the required rate. Obviously, the internal laptop's HD, with it's reduced performance and fragmentation was not able to achieve it, however a fresh, faster disk connected to the USB2 port was.

    How would things change if I used the FireWire interface? I doubt they would. The DVD Burner doesn't need more than 30MB/sec, so even if the FireWire interface could provide more data rate, the customer (DVD Burner) would not ask for them.

    How would things change if I used a Card Bus (32bit PCMCIA card) IDE or SATA interface? In burning a DVD, not much or at all (I am guessing here as I have not done this).

    On the other hand, I am in a search for a PCMCIA SATA controller to connect external 3.5 disks to the laptop. The reason is that the 3.5 disks can read and write at much faster rates than the DVD Burner (~55-60MB/sec). Therefore, connecting my external SATA disk to the laptop by means of such an interface would deliver me approximatelly 50% more bandwidth for disk related tasks. You see, life doesn't end at burning DVDs

    Lesson complete and I hope I have shed some light into the matter.
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    Originally Posted by SaSi
    Lesson complete and I hope I have shed some light into the matter.

    Great!!!
    Very interesting!
    A lot more light!
    And, as I really like fishing, allow me a question more:
    if I will not have a firewire2 adapter, the only one albe to give a sense to a 7200rpm external hard disk, but I will have a usb2 or a normal firewire adapter, does this mean that the 7200 will run as a 5400 one? Or anyway a 7200 will be better than a 5400 (apart that it will be cheaper...)?
    Why do you need a sata hard disk if You have a usb2 one?
    If the reason why I need the external hard disk is basically for ripping dvd, a 7200 or 10000 hard disk is useful or too much?
    There can be any reason for which it could be better to connect the dvd writer via usb and the hard disk via firewire? I understood that two devices connected in the same pcmcia usb2 adapter are not a wonderful thing (even if i do not understand why, as both would be connected to ac adapter, non fed via usb power), but If the firewire and usb ports would be in the same combo adpter, why to choose one or the other?
    All these particulars are wonderful for my mind, but at the moment to have to chooce what to buy, thing that it is already enough difficult in Argentina, it is better something simple. So, if I have to buy a pcmcia combo card, firewire and usb, this change all, because I need to search for a usb and firewire external drive or case...
    Well, This is all, because your lesson cleared up all others doubts
    Many thanks!
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    Hi, I just came from vacations.

    I was recommending to get an USB2/firewire cardbus combo card to maximize the CPU utilization in your laptop as you have an older machine.

    I have done informal test with my desktop and for external hard disk or DVD burning I have lower CPU utilization over the firewire bus. With more recent machines this is not a big thing, but then again your laptop is a bit older.

    In top of that, USB2 interface cannot sustain transfer rate when more than one device is connected to the bus. Even a mouse may slow down video recording on a drive that lives in a USB2 external case.

    If you do not plan using the burner and the HD at the same time you will be OK with plugging them to the same USB2 bus.

    But then the combo card cost more. Basically all is related to how much money are you willing to spend. 

    To SaSi,

    That was a great explanation.

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    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    Hi, I just came from vacations.
    Welcome back!
    I have lower CPU utilization over the firewire bus. With more recent machines this is not a big thing, but then again your laptop is a bit older.
    Ok, this is clear now: so, in older machines firewire can be faster even if it is slower, as it uses less cpu. Something like this...
    USB2 interface cannot sustain transfer rate when more than one device is connected to the bus.
    This is new for me, interesting. Correct me if i mistake: first of all, as we said, firewire get better performances by itself, one or two devices no matter. In addition to this, if we connect two devices, firewire is not affected at all, while usb is slowed down even more. Is it right? Or both connection are slowed down?
    If I remember well, one is serial, the other parallel, I do not remember anymore which one...
    What does it mean this? Can this be the reason of this difference between the two at the time of connectng more than one device?
    If you do not plan using the burner and the HD at the same time you will be OK with plugging them to the same USB2 bus.
    while ripping, I could use internal dvd rom to read and external HD to rip. But burning I will have to use external HD and DVD togheter, yes...
    Anyway, I am surprised that this better performance of a firewire connection over a usb one works even when both connection are on the same pc card adapter, and not on two different adapters.
    But then the combo card cost more.
    Yes, the double, at least here in Argentina. And, even worst, the case for a hard drive is not available in just firewire, not here, not now, so I should buy a combo case, more expensive...
    So, I am checkingit. If the price is affodable, I could do it, if not, I will have to hope in the angel protectors of older machines...
    Bye Offbarea, and thanks again!
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    Look what i have found out!
    http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm
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    Hi,

    Well this is more or less what I have found in my informal testing done in the past; good luck with your purchasing.

    When you finally have your new system running, post a reply in here to learn how it went.
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    I will!
    Thanks again...
    I think I will go for a firewire... I just have a doubt: as I see that, no idea why, buying two separate pc-card, one firewire and one usb2, is cheaper than one combo with two ports for each kind of connection (4 total), I am asking ifm with two slots free and no actual need to fill them with other kind of card, if it is better for system and connection to use two separate cards, of just one... Of course, in case i will buy a card for wireless connection, to have a slot free is good, but I could just manage it anyway, so, better to know just the difference in using one or two cards...
    Bye!
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    A combo card has more components than a single function card.

    In general a combo card will require a pci bridge controller, a firewire chip and an usb2 chip. A single function card just requires the usb2 or firewire chips. Because of this the manufacturing line requires additional steps to build a combo card. This is more expensive.

    In regards of getting separated cards you will find that sometimes it is not possible them at the same time, especially if both cards have built-in bulky ports. Basically both cards will not fit in the slot at the same time, unless one of them has some kind of dongle, but then again you may lose the dongle… This is the reason why I think a combo card is more convenient.

    But better the day you want to buy the cardbus cards, bring in your laptop and see if both cards will fit at the same time in the way you intent to use them.

    I do not know it this is possible or cheap in Argentina, but you could try getting your card on-line. I bought an used usb2/firewire card at eBay for around $12 (us). I’m affiliated to a mail forward service. The stuff I get on-line in US, is delivered to an address in Florida, and they forward that package to me in Costa Rica. I just pay for the delivery process. Almost always this service is cheaper, after paying delivery and Costa Rica taxes, than buying the stuff at a local shop.

    The only catch is the warranty. The lack of local warranty could be a problem in case of getting a lemon. Since I started buying on-line, only two US robotics wired routers have failed on me, and after that and switch to D-LINK and Linksys and no problems ever...
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    Hi Ofbarea,
    yes, the first reason for which I try to get things here is the warranty and support on site...
    Anyway, if you give me some info about this mail service I can check...
    If I understand well, the problem with two cards would be a matter of space? I mean, that the part which exit from notebook is not tin enough to allow two card at same time even if I have two slots? Mmm, interesting...
    supposing that I will not use the two connection at same time, so I could put one and take it off etc, there should be some kind of advantage in quality using a separate card?
    I am thinking about firewire or combo enclosures. Combo worth $50 more. so, two enclosures are 100 more. So, supposing that I buy the firewire enclosure and will need to borrow the drive or HD to a friend with only usb connection, do you know if there are cables or adapter to use it on a usb port? I canīt get info on internet...
    Last thing: do you have any idea if the sony i-link is the same of firewire, because I can get an external dvd writer, sony drx-820u, which has got i-link and usb connection. Can i connect i.link on firewire port???
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    if you give me some info about this mail service I can check
    You can check the web site of one of these mail forward companies in here: http://www.aeropost.com/SJOE/home.htm


    there should be some kind of advantage in quality using a separate card?
    Not really, the cards should give you similar functionality.


    supposing that I buy the firewire enclosure and will need to borrow the drive or HD to a friend with only usb connection, do you know if there are cables or adapter to use it on a usb port?
    There are not . Sorry.


    do you have any idea if the sony i-link is the same of firewire
    Yes Sony i-link is the same stuff as firewire. Sony i-link uses 4 pin Firewire [IEEE-1394] pinout. So you will need to get a cable with the right pinout.

    If the pcmcia card has a 6 pin firewire connector you will need a 4 pin to 6 pin firewire cable to connect the burner to the PC.

    You can review the following link for a bit more of details: http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Firewire.html#b
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    (very happy)
    Thanks!
    I am waiting answer from Sony because it is not clear if the drx-820u has got or not i.link connection...
    If yes, i suppose that for $20 more it is good to buy it instead of a combo enclosure and an internal drive...
    I see on this site that it is a benQ OEM, no idea how did they found out this info, but if it is so, it is a pity that I cnaīt buy benQ external drive here...
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    You can find a good review of this Sony drive in here: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/260

    Sony DRU-820A is the internal model.
    Sony DRU-820U is the USB2 model
    Sony DRU-820UL is the USB2/firewire model


    The Sony DRU-820a is a BenQ DW1670.
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    Originally Posted by ofbarea
    You can find a good review of this Sony drive in here: http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/260
    Sony DRU-820A is the internal model.
    Sony DRU-820U is the USB2 model
    Sony DRU-820UL is the USB2/firewire model
    The Sony DRU-820a is a BenQ DW1670.
    Cose di pazzi! Non ci posso credere! estos malditos mentirosos!
    Te das cuenta!!! (do you speak spanish?)
    The vendor told me that he sells only manhattan enclosures, and he promised me, at a absur price of 100$, a combo enclosure for 3.5 hd and a combo enclosure for 5.25 dvd (other 100$).
    But manhattan do not produce any combo enclosure and about 5.25, even worst, it produces only usb2!!!
    And the same vendor told me that drx-820U is usb2 and i.link, while is not true!
    And he do not want to order any BenQ drive for me because he says they sucks and he had problems, and now he want to sell me a Sony which is a BenQ with the double of cost???
    What is he thinking about???
    Damn, why is it so difficult, I just need a good external dvd writer with usb2 and firewire connection and able to write + and - R DL, or a good combo enclosure with the correct chipset, prolific etc, to allow me firmware upgrade ets, using it with a good internal dvd writer udm4.
    Whoever in the world would tell me in a second what to buy, and this damn stupid little man it is one month letting me wait!!! And he has got my money yet!
    A newby knows he needs help, and looks for an expert.
    An expert knows he once too was a newby and needed help, so he is patient, offering his help.
    A newby knows that nobody MUST help him, so he is grateful for the help received...
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