Overscan feature not working, demo limitations?

[ministryofmind]

I have yet to purchase SVCD2DVD in the hopes of trying out the demo and seeing if it works for my project. I have several .avi to burn on a DVD. When I burn them the quality is excellent but some parts of the edges are missing on my TV. I have tried this with another DVD player and another TV; same problem. The avis are not pal, encode beautifully and I have no other problems with them save for the fact that a little bit of the left and right are cut off. The top and bottom doesn't matter because there is a black border at the top and bottom initially, probably due to corrected aspect ratio as I do not see this border on my computer DVD player, nor do I get the overscan problem on a PC dvd player.

I searched the forums for the overscan problem and found the "CRT: Overscan" feature in the SVCD2DVD 2.1 demo, I put a whole 30 pixels in there and I see no discernable change in the next DVD I burned with the same features. And yes, I did save the settings, when I burned the log showed "CRT: Overscan 30 pixels."

Is this just a limitation of the demo or is there another problem?

I would like to rectify this before I purchase. And I would really, really like to purchase as I am sick of using six billion different command prompt tools to do what I need to do here.

Help a lady in distress, get a digital cookie

[Jikchung]

I don't know if it is a demo limitation or not. To see if overscan is being applied, try viewing the created "S2D" files on your computer to see if side borders have been added.

[ministryofmind]

I did view the S2D files, the borders exist there but not in the DVDs. Something is seriously wrong here ...

[ChrissyBoy]

If you play the DVDs (or the VIDEO_TS folder) on your PC can you see the same borders? Also when doing so what software are you using?

[ministryofmind]

Yes, when I play back the VOB files, the border does exist, although not in the menu (but I can live with that). I used Zoom player and AVS DVD player, both showed the border.

[ChrissyBoy]

It is this "Side" border which is created by the overscan feature... So all is well as these are in the final DVD?

[ministryofmind]

No!! They're not! That's the problem!

[ChrissyBoy]

Yes, when I play back the VOB files, the border does exist....

So are they there or not?

[ministryofmind]

Look:

The vob files, when played back on my computer via Zoom or AVS DOES show a border.

When burnt with DVD Decryptor:

The DVD ... the actual physical disc, played in one of two physical DVD players attached to two different TVs in separate occassions, did NOT have the border.

That's my problem.

Edit: This isn't the first time either, it's only after making two coasters that I decided to give up and come here for help. For some reason, the overscan feature works on the digital media present on my computer, but when actually burnt in a DVD on a TV, does not show up. The border even shows up when I play the physical DVD with a DVD player on my PC.

The dimensions of the AVIs I was burning to disc is: 640X360 maybe that has something to do with it?

[ChrissyBoy]

I hear what you are saying.... Everything is working as expected. The final DVD VOBs have been adjusted for a certain amount of overscan.... It just sounds like your TVs are overscanning more than to be expected. What value have you set for the overscan pixels?

[ministryofmind]

I put a whole 30 pixels in there and I see no discernable change in the next DVD I burned with the same features. And yes, I did save the settings, when I burned the log showed "CRT: Overscan 30 pixels."

This is driving me bonkers. Oh! And ... it's not like anything improved! No matter how many pixels I put in there, the TV cuts off at the exact same places. You know, the same letters get cut off in the letters of the credits, things like that.

[ChrissyBoy]

try 50

[ministryofmind]

Okay. But you owe me a blank DVD and a slice of pizza!

I'll be back in a bit to report my findings ...

[jagabo]

Buy a RW DVD.

[ministryofmind]

Jagabo: You're not helping.

The 50 pixel test:

I still don't see a border when I ran the dvd, however, the text that used to be cropped up is no longer cropped and I can see most of the things that I think are being overscanned.

To be safe though, in the future perhaps up the maximum to more than just 50 pixels? Or is that unfeasible? How come I don't see the border when I play it on the TV but it shows on the vob?

[jagabo]

How come I don't see the border when I play it on the TV but it shows on the vob?

Because TVs overscan by design.

[ministryofmind]

But I don't see *ANY* border. Which leads me to think 50 pixels somehow, wasn't enough.

[ChrissyBoy]

well I'll see what i can do to increase the value.... But jagabo is correct - it is by design and this is all to be expected.

[jagabo]

CRT TVs typically overscan by 5 to 10 percent on all four sides. But it can be even more. And it's usually not even on all four sides.

There is often noise at the edges of the frame in broadcasts, from VHS tape, even from DVDs. CRTs are not good at keeping the image centered. They usually don't have good linearity, especially near the edges. The size of the picture varies with time. All these parameters vary with the temperature, the brightness of the picture, etc. Overscan helps hide all these problems.

There is also a psychological issue. When people see two equivalent TVs next to each other on the floor of a dealership, the one that overscans more appears to have a "bigger" picture. They tend to buy that one.

Broadcasters know not to put important information, especially text, in the outer 10 percent of the picture. You're problem is that the fans that subbed the video didn't allow for overscan. They either were unaware of it, assumed the video would always be watched on a computer, or just didn't care.

What you're doing is shrinking the actual picture so that the black borders appear in the overscan area. You're trading resolution in the actual image to get it. If you increase the border around the picture so you can see the whole image on your current TV, what are you going to think in a few years when you see a big black border on a new TV? Or maybe the new TV will overscan even more and you'll be missing more of the picture! Obviously, it's up to you how much you want to compensate for overscan. Just remember there is no PERFECT fix.

[ministryofmind]

Okay. Thank you all for your input.

There's no need to thoroughly patronize me, I know what it's like to get jaded after posting hundreds of posts to newbs who refuse to do a forum search before they post, jagabo (and read a lot of your recent posts.) I realize there's no perfect fix, although I may sound like needless bitching, I am merely obtaining information that I didn't find with a thorough search on the forums. The rest of the posts I found, you all said the average amount of pixels used was about 25 pixels, which is why this is a surprise for me using twice the amount and still not seeing the edge of the border! So no, it wasn't exactly expected. But I consider the issue fixed as I can now read all of the subing. For the future when people do another search on overscan, they will now have the added benefit of knowing how varried the amount of pixels may be!

When I see a big black border in a few years on a new TV, I'm going to think "oh, overscan compensation." And as of the moment, with a huge 42'' TV, I'm pretty happy with the way things turned out and the resolution so far is superb (I'm really not picky.)

I have now a purchased copy of the software and am proceeding to enjoy it. Issue resolved!

[ChrissyBoy]

Well I am glad things are resolved - and that you got the software (thanks!).

Rereading the thread - there is no patronizing from jagabo at all... So lets all leave that out please. Other than that I agree that this thread will no doubt be useful to others, due to ALL contributions.

[ministryofmind]

In my defense, telling me to go buy some RW DVDs when I was merely joking before providing *any* helpful information was just ornery. I also have a severe dislike of rhetorical questions with the assumption that I'm going to complain about something later.

I am very happy with the solution jagabo provided and I am VERY grateful for that. I am only a bit irked at the tone of which he decided to deliver it. By reading some of his other posts I now realize this isn't personal, but still find it to be unfriendly. I'm only providing feedback for the method of which he is responding to my posts, maybe he'll find this useful in the future.

On an actual related note, I have burned my first DVD with the same content as the demo and have found no further issues. Thanks again for all the help ... both of you.

Women and their sensitivities, eh?

[ChrissyBoy]

Tell me about it - my wife is pregnant!

[jagabo]

Sorry. Guess I get tired of addressing the overscan issue every week.

[james039]

Things would be so much simpler if people didn't crop their video upon ripping to AVI. Those black bars are there on the edges for a reason! Having to "uncrop" the video when transferring back to DVD makes the video quality degrade even more. I understand concerns about wasting space in the file encoding the black border, but once you crop the video, it will forever be slightly zoomed, when viewed on a regular TV. (end rant).