BluRay delayed.....

[bendixG15]

BluRay delay..for those who care.........
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20060606/tc_nm/japan_pioneer_bluray_dc_1

[lenti_75]

this is no NEWS......

who cares anyway.....

[pegcity]

anything that hurts Sony is ok in my books.

[Jack&Water]

I'm not going anywhere near next-gen DVD players until a winner prevails in the format war. Early adopters beware.

[CubDukat]

These guys really can't catch a break, can they?

Personally, I intend to wait at least a year before I touch either format. From the little bit I've seen of HD-DVD, I am singularly unimpressed.

And that's not even counting the still-missing HDMI 1.3 spec and receivers capable of decoding Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD/DTS-HD--and don't even get me started on the lack of support for DVD-Audio and/or SACD.

Why couldn't these guys just do what they did for the DVD format--take the best parts of two competing designs and put them together for one unified format?

[ROF]

No biggie here. I would not buy a Pioneer device anyway. Too expensive plus I am not looking to investing in blu-ray movie viewing until at least sometime next year. I will be burning them before the end of the summer, but I don't plan to buy a set top until other manufacturers begin flooding the marketplace.

[pegcity]

Why couldn't these guys just do what they did for the DVD format--take the best parts of two competing designs and put them together for one unified format?

cause that would be to simple

[Bob W]

The Sony BD player has been put off until until August, the pioneer until Maybe September, and the Samsung is rumored to slipped again this time until late July. I wonder if Sony will bother releasing BD movies later this month with zero players available?

Doesn't really bother me as I continue to enjoy my HD DVD player.

[EAO]

Since BluRay is delayed what are the implications on the PS3 which is supposed to come out end of year.

Will it have BluRay?

Is Sony going to sell the PS3 without BR for a lot less?

Is Sony going to replace all the PS3's without BluRay at no charge?

Freakin two format mess all and only because of greed.

[dvdguy4]

If they only told you the real reason for the delay. Again

[ROF]

Freakin two format mess all and only because of greed.

Welcome to Earth!

[SingSing]

There are many new formats being pushed on to consumers. Only those has real benefits become main stream. BD/HD may suffered the same fate as SVHS. The pictures may be better than the previous, but not enough to become main stream.

For the History of how DVD replaced VHS, remember that DVD not only offers 4 times better pictures than VHS, DVD also delivers the surround sound that are not availabled from VHS.

[ntscuser]

For the History of how DVD replaced VHS, remember that DVD not only offers 4 times better pictures than VHS, DVD also delivers the surround sound that are not availabled from VHS.

It was also a quarter the price of a rental VHS tape and easier to export to countries where certain titles were not legally available.

(kim)

[Baldrick]

For the History of how DVD replaced VHS, remember that DVD not only offers 4 times better pictures than VHS, DVD also delivers the surround sound that are not availabled from VHS.

1920x1080p vs 720x480p...6 times more image information....so give me bluray now!!! and throw in a 1080p projector.

[jman98]

CubDukat - I can answer your question. The BluRay and HD-DVD camps did negotiate to reach a unified format, but the problem was that each side demanded that the other concede to its disc format. Since the disc formats are very different from each other in terms of capacity and how they are manufactured, one side had to give in and neither wanted to.

I don't think you're going to be very impressed with BluRay either when it finally comes out. The word is that right now BluRay doesn't yet support any of the advanced video codecs it is supposed to, so early BluRay discs will all be MPEG-2 video at very high bit rates.

EA0 - PS3 will most definitely have BluRay in it. No, it will NOT be available without it. I guess you didn't read the news article link, but Pioneer, not Sony, is saying that they (and no one else) are delaying making players until the autumn. Sony has almost bet the farm on the PS3+BluRay killing off HD-DVD, so I guarantee you that the PS3 will most definitely ship with BluRay.

[lenti_75]

For the History of how DVD replaced VHS, remember that DVD not only offers 4 times better pictures than VHS, DVD also delivers the surround sound that are not availabled from VHS.

1920x1080p vs 720x480p...6 times more image information....so give me bluray now!!! and throw in a 1080p projector.

there is a limit from where your eye can't see any better....you can have 1000 times more info, just more space.......unless you have a 1000" tv.

[ROF]

There is a big difference even on a smaller HD screen when contrasting HD content and LD content. Once you go HD you never want to view low definition again.

[lenti_75]

There is a big difference even on a smaller HD screen when contrasting HD content and LD content. Once you go HD you never want to view low definition again.

everytime when I go to BB or CC and take a look at that HD crap...I keep wondering where is that BIG difference....because I really can't see it.

it's just an illusion in your head, more than anything else, no offence. :P

[ROF]

no offense taken and you are correct, my eyes are located within my head and what they see is an incredible difference.

[Bob W]

no offense taken and you are correct, my eyes are located within my head and what they see is an incredible difference.

HD DVD looks so much better on my 1080p 56 inch DLP I don''t want to watch standard DVD's any more. I think some may be confusing the upscaling "HDDVD" as being HD which it really is not.

[terjeber]

I don't think you're going to be very impressed with BluRay either when it finally comes out. The word is that right now BluRay doesn't yet support any of the advanced video codecs it is supposed to, so early BluRay discs will all be MPEG-2 video at very high bit rates.

HD-DVD and Blue-Ray movies both will probably ship encoded in MPEG-2 for the first few years. There are a number of excellent reasons for this, the main being that MPEG-2 is a format that is well established and that the studios knows how to encode into very well. Remember, encoding DVD video at the level we are currently used to is an art mastered by few. DVDs when they came out were of far inferior quality to what we are used to now. Today they encode frame-by-frame for good productions, with individual settings for varying scenes.

The reason we are seeing a format war is that MPEG-2 needs more disk space for HD video, you could probably encode perfectly acceptable HD movies on a dual layer DVD. HD-DVD and Blue-Ray are intended for MPEG-2 use.

For this reason, the additional storage capacity of Blue-Ray would indicate that the quality of Blue-Ray movies will be superior to the quality of HD-DVD movies.

Technically Blue-Ray is a better format, and I just wish that the technically superior format would win for once. Imagine how much better our old home movies would have been if Beta and not the inferior VHS had won the format war. I am currently converting a ton of home-video on VHS to DVDs. The quality is appaling. Anyone interested in video, as an enthusiast or professional, should support the technically superior format so that we are not stuck with "good enough for the dumbest users" once again.

[terjeber]

There is a big difference even on a smaller HD screen when contrasting HD content and LD content. Once you go HD you never want to view low definition again.

everytime when I go to BB or CC and take a look at that HD crap...I keep wondering where is that BIG difference....because I really can't see it.

it's just an illusion in your head, more than anything else, no offence. :P

No offence, but I have to extend my sympathies. I hope you will regain your vision soon. If you do not see the difference between SD and HD, you are either not looking at an HD screen showing HD content, or you are simply blind. That isn't an opinion, that is a statement of fact.

I expect you are going to your local shop and are looking at HD or HD-Enabled TVs, assuming that what you see on them is HD content. I have found that very few shops actually show HD content. The difference in both color fidelity and resolution in HD over SD is significant and immideately visible, you don't even need the TVs side by side.

[yoda313]

For the History of how DVD replaced VHS, remember that DVD not only offers 4 times better pictures than VHS, DVD also delivers the surround sound that are not availabled from VHS.

Well VHS DID have ProLogic Surround Sound. It was the predecessor to Dolby Digital. Now don't get me wrong I wouldn't trade DD5.1 or DTS5.1 for anything but PROLOGIC sounded REALLY REALLY good in the proper setup. So for the time VHS had its appeal.

Now if they can just design and market a dual format player that does BLURAY and HDDVD then we can get on to the business of what all this is really about - WATCHING MOVIES!!!! (and tv shows on dvd of course )

[SatStorm]

HDTV is excellent but needs something the mainstream european household don't have room for: A Big TV Screen. More than 37"
So, IMO, Bluray & HDDVD won't be something to look for, but something to store more data to.
DVD storage capacity is not enough for me. I bet it is not enough for others too.

[jntaylor63]

terjeber,

None of the HD-DVD disk in the US use MPEG2. They are VC-1

[ntscuser]

HDTV is excellent but needs something the mainstream european household don't have room for: A Big TV Screen. More than 37"
So, IMO, Bluray & HDDVD won't be something to look for, but something to store more data to.
DVD storage capacity is not enough for me. I bet it is not enough for others too.

Same here. I have a critical backup storage requirement equal to at least 5xDVD or 1x25GB Blue-Ray disc. It will save me a lot of work. I'm also guessing the cheapest way to acquire Blue-Ray will be to have it bundled with a new PC as happened with the first CD-RW and DVD-RW drives.

(kim)

[SingSing]

Now if they can just design and market a dual format player that does BLURAY and HDDVD then we can get on to the business of what all this is really about - WATCHING MOVIES!

That's should not be a technical challenge at all. First gneration of laser diode in DVD player can't read CD, so Pioneer make twin laser DVD player to read CD and DVD.

It will never happened because Toshiba and Sony are in the pissing contest mode.

The reason that Japanese want new DVD formats, is the Chinese and Korean own the DVD player market now. They are waging format war among themselves and also shut other people out.

[Cornucopia]

terjeber,

None of the HD-DVD disk in the US use MPEG2. They are VC-1

Unless I'm very much mistaken, this isn't true. Neither camp has yet incorporated either of the MPG4 codecs yet (VC-1 or h.264), mainly because the quality hardware & software encoders for them haven't been released yet. I believe edDV said as much earlier in the thread.

And ROF and terjeber,
the studios themselves, when promoting HD-DVD in their whitepapers (which I have a copy of) specifically say that HD quality only becomes evident/obvious on screens larger than ~32". There have also been scientific double-blind tests and human vision theory experiments which concur showing that there is a relationship between pixel size/density, distance (from viewer to screen), arc/degrees of FOV, and quality perception. And unless you go so close to something like a 25" screen that you can already see the dots, HD won't be a noticeable improvement. HD has many merits, no need trying to add on some it doesn't deserve.

Scott

[TBoneit]

So since I sit 6+ feet from the TV I do most of my watching....

And I suspect I'm a bnit close for its 32" size HD will do nothing for me?

[lgh529]

terjeber,

None of the HD-DVD disk in the US use MPEG2. They are VC-1

Not true. HD-DVD uses MPEG-2 compression. So does Blu-ray. Digital TV transmission in both the US (ATCS) and Europe (DVB) also uses MPEG-2 compression. The satellite guys are currently using MPEG-2, but are planning to switch to MPEG-4 to squeeze more bit rate into the bandwidth limit.

The irony is that there is no HD-DVD recorders or media on the market, only players. And Blu-ray has recorders and media, but no players.

The bad thing about Blu-ray is that the anounced players are going to be $999 or more while the HD-DVD players are in the $500 range. That will be the death of Blu-ray in my opinion. The bottom line is that consumers are not going to pay a higher price for better quality picture. For those of you younger than me, I'll remind that you the reason we had VHS and not Beta was for the exact same reason. Beta was a better quality picture, but the players were more expensive. The only possible exception is the Playstation 3 which should have a Blu-ray player in it (at least one of the possible multiple models) which they are currently saying will be in the $700 range. Still more than the HD-DVD.

everytime when I go to BB or CC and take a look at that HD crap...I keep wondering where is that BIG difference....because I really can't see it.

Then you aren't seeing true HD. Just because you have an HD set, doesn't mean your watching HD. Some idots buy a HD 16:9 TV at Best Buy, go home and watch 4:3 material stretched out to 16:9 and think, "Wow! This HD is awesome!". HD material is phenominal.

HDTV is excellent but needs something the mainstream european household don't have room for: A Big TV Screen. More than 37"

Actually, the driving force behind HD resolution displays was the Japanese. They had smaller living spaces and were sitting closer to the TV. Well the closer you get to a SD television, the more visible the scan lines are. Just because you can buy 60" plasmas with HD resolution doesn't mean that smaller displays won't benefit. In fact, they will benefit just as much, especially in the smaller living spaces of Europe and Japan.

OK, done ranting (and correcting)