Net-addicted computers & eBay'd parts; a Q or 2 on ATI AIW 8500DV

[ahhaa]

I'd like some advice on installing a used ATI All-In-Wonder 8500DV card; got it on eBay and would like to make sure it works so I can leave fb & 'close the case'.

I'm rural, and stuck with tincans&string dialup. I've got an old laptop I drag to the coffeeshop to pick up today's large update files over their broadband.

I have a well-armored workhorse computer for browsing & email.
My editing computer is not online, its an AMD 2500 on a MSI mobo running SP1. The speed difference is huge by not having all the updates and AV stuff running. It starts up & shuts down in seconds, not minutes... and everything runs like a rocket. Everything is scanned before it goes onboard, of course.

So... the ATI board's software CD came all scratched up. I think it can be polished and it opens OK, but that sent me to ATI's website for possible updates.

The next thing I know, I'm considering dl'ing MS .net & sp2, just to make the updated software work...

I could do a long rant about software that is net-addicted; I remember when standalone machines & software could go happy years without needing any updates, and then the update was a BIG improvement. (3.1 to W98 era comes to mind).

Would appreciate any 8500 owners opinions on the real utility of all those updates, and if they can be somehow dl'd and put on CD on a different machine, 'cause it looks like they have to go right onto the machine that will use them.

[ROF]

Since you purchased an old ATI card I can only assume the CD has extremely old drivers on it. Visit ATI's website and download the latest Catalyst drivers. I used to own an 8500 and I still have an old 7000 and 9600. The latest catalyst drivers will provide you the support you need.

On the subject of bootup and shutdown times. I have several systems which are all up-to-date and have anti-virus and other "run at start" programs installed. My shutdown time from the point of clicking until the system power shuts off is about 15 seconds, bootup is about twice as long. It is certainly not measured in minutes. If your system does this it's either an extremely old system or has some conflicts which are preventing normal boot ups and shutdowns. I can not begin to tell you the amount of systems I see each week in my shop where the system takes forever to bootup and when shutting it down there are programs running which will not shutdown and thus prevent the system from doing so or slow down the shutdown process. When I ask the customer about this the typical answer is "it always does that I just click 'end now' and it usually shuts right down". This is indicative of a system problem and can lead to further issues. They are pleasantly surprised when I tell them what was causing it and how I stopped it from doing this. This may or may not be your issue with long shutdown times but since I see this often I thought it worth mentioning.

[edDV]

You can order an update CD from ATI (call them) for about $20 including shipping. That last I purchased was v8.1.

Otherwise you can download cataylst and MMC 9.02 (following all the directions) and get it to work fine. Avoid the licensed DVD player. It isn't worth the effort. Just skip it.

A good site for the AIW card discussion is
http://www.rage3d.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=24

[ahhaa]

Thanks guys...
I know about the downloadable updates, but the Catalyst system apparently requires MS .net onboard, which apparently requires the machine to be online, which requires all the AV overhead, right?

ROF- it was the newest card that'd work with my mobo (and affordable, the feature I need is cc capture to text).

On the long shutdown time... that's interesting. XP sits there for several minutes 'Saving my Settings', then says 'Shutting down' for another minute. It got much worse after adding Windows Defender.
I've done all sorts of scans, online scans, Adawares, spybots, etc on it.
Went into msconfig startup & shut down what I could recognize that wasn't needed 'hot'.

In Task Manager, my apps look OK, like right now I have 2 apps Firefox & EO open, but I have 7 instances of svchost running, and 44 processes altogether. CPU usage alternating between 10% & 50%. Seems like a lot, & makes me wonder what else is going on in there!

Ed- thanks for the link. When you updated, was it more about bugfixes or enhanced features? I find little mention of the editing/encoding software when people discuss favorite programs.

[edDV]

I updated from the original 7.x to 8.1 to get a different starting point when reformatting. I'm not sure if the $20 was well spent because I found I didn't like their DVD player which causes all the licensing hubbub.

The 8500DV was the first comtemporary Theater 200 card and is in the same family as the 9550 to 98xx series. The only real difference is the tuner, so all the Theater 200 MMC versions apply.

Support runs out around MMC 9.02 or 9.03 (read the notes) as they moved on to the x1000 technology. There is no reason to update higher.

Same goes with Catalyst drivers (read the notes).

I'm not aware of any "phone home" issues with catalyst drivers. Ask over at that other site.

[ofbarea]

I know about the downloadable updates, but the Catalyst system apparently requires MS .net onboard, which apparently requires the machine to be online, which requires all the AV overhead, right?

I also have an ATI 8500DV and I rebuild my PC last weekend.

Before you start make sure that you have WXP SP2 and DX9 c.

Then go to ATI web site to the Catalyst 6.4 Windows XP - Driver Download page.
I think this is the web page: https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=640

From there download:
* Microsoft .NET Framework
* Catalyst Control Center Package

Install .NET frameword and reboot
Install Catalyst 6.4 drivers and reboot.

Then go to ATI web site to the ATI Multimedia Center 9.08 Download page.
I think this is its page: https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=19477

From there download:
* DAO / MDAC
* Multimedia Center

Install DAO / MDAC
Install Multimedia Center and reboot.

At this point you will have ATI MMC up and running. No need to be connected to internet.

Is better to use power DVD as the DVD player as you will have much better results.

ATI MMC 9.13 will not work well with this card. You may install it, but you will face capture problems and bad pixelation. I also faced several Audio/video sync problems with it.

[ahhaa]

OK, a little progress... thanks to E & O

Before seeing this, I taken my laptop downtown and dl'd (for the record & next guy searching):
ATI Catalyst Control Center 6-4_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_31959.exe
ATI DAO MDAC 9-13_mmc_uci.exe
ATI Encoder 6-4_encoder_31959.exe
ATI Multimedia Center 9-13_mmc_enu.exe
Avivo Encoder 6-4_encoder_31959.exe* (didn't realize this was duplicate)
Catalyst Uninstaller cat-uninstaller.exe* (just in case)

and there was a DVD codec that required this- atiCDwiz.exe, which was supposed to verify my original installation disc before doing the actual dl. but it wouldn't, tho I'd brought the disc.
(mentioned it arrived scuffed up, I'd taken it to the vid store for a polish; well, they now charge $2.50 for that... ); so that I wasn't able to dl.

I'd previously dl'd the .net framework (via dialup only slightly faster than smoke signals) & cadged the SP2 on CD from a local computer builder.

So... I guess tomorrow I go back & dl the 9.08 MMC & DX9 c, right ?
One thing I'm in doubt about; one of these said it was only an update to what 'had been installed from the original CD' & I forget which it was- Duh!

Boy, I hope this card is worth the trouble!

[edDV]

Didn't I say forget the frigging DVD player?
Didn't I say MMC9.02 or bust? Maybe 9.03?

From now on I'm a spectator.

[ofbarea]

Actually MMC 9.08 works porperlly with my 8500DV

For sure you will have problems with MMC 9.13.

You may use ATI DAO MDAC 9-13 with MMC 9.08.

[edDV]

Good to know for next time. Thanks.

[ahhaa]

Didn't I say forget the frigging DVD player?
Didn't I say MMC9.02 or bust? Maybe 9.03?

From now on I'm a spectator.

ed- as I said above, I went to do the downloads before seeing these last posts; oddly enough I can't check my email from the coffeeshop (due to a bizarre setup at my ISP) and I didn't think to come here to check as I'd just done that at home. sorry!

Have pity on a rural guy! Nobody around here knows much more than I do about this stuff. When I asked that local computer builder about .net, he insisted I must mean passport.
There is a digital divide - the cable & telco can't be bothered wiring up 'low-density' areas, on top of that we're surrounded by a creepy invasion of 'summer homes' that are occupied only 3 months of the year at best (broadband providers hate that). So I go download kinda like some old pioneer would go stock up on supplies in the buckboard.

Anyway, in this I'm just a newbie. I'm gonna make mistakes. Bear with me!

[ahhaa]

ofbarea, thanks-
The 9.08 link above seems to be an 'expired search', I found .08 here:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894

The 9.02 doesn't seem to be available anymore, according to that page.
the oldest listed is .03 at:
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=10135

[RDS1955]

ed- as I said above, I went to do the downloads before seeing these last posts; oddly enough I can't check my email from the coffeeshop (due to a bizarre setup at my ISP) and I didn't think to come here to check as I'd just done that at home. sorry!

Have pity on a rural guy! Nobody around here knows much more than I do about this stuff. When I asked that local computer builder about .net, he insisted I must mean passport.
There is a digital divide - the cable & telco can't be bothered wiring up 'low-density' areas, on top of that we're surrounded by a creepy invasion of 'summer homes' that are occupied only 3 months of the year at best (broadband providers hate that). So I go download kinda like some old pioneer would go stock up on supplies in the buckboard.

Anyway, in this I'm just a newbie. I'm gonna make mistakes. Bear with me!

Ahhhh..Good ole Country Life... Count yourself fortunate..Sooner or later you'll have broadband in your neck of the woods..it's inevitable..If you really wanted you could get broadband via satellite, but it like everything else has it's pro's and cons...Like I said count yourself fortunate...

[edDV]

Didn't I say forget the frigging DVD player?
Didn't I say MMC9.02 or bust? Maybe 9.03?

From now on I'm a spectator.

ed- as I said above, I went to do the downloads before seeing these last posts; oddly enough I can't check my email from the coffeeshop (due to a bizarre setup at my ISP) and I didn't think to come here to check as I'd just done that at home. sorry!

Have pity on a rural guy! Nobody around here knows much more than I do about this stuff. When I asked that local computer builder about .net, he insisted I must mean passport.
There is a digital divide - the cable & telco can't be bothered wiring up 'low-density' areas, on top of that we're surrounded by a creepy invasion of 'summer homes' that are occupied only 3 months of the year at best (broadband providers hate that). So I go download kinda like some old pioneer would go stock up on supplies in the buckboard.

Anyway, in this I'm just a newbie. I'm gonna make mistakes. Bear with me!

OK, ...
You need to start over and that is difficult with ATI drivers. Download their removal tool, then manually delete all references to ATI in the registry (also Gemstar !). Get it back to a simple VGA driver. Strip it clean before starting over.

BTW, the only way you can get the Gemstar guide is off the original CD.

[ahhaa]

Ed- well, I guess I should have explained a lil better... I just downloaded them to the laptop and burned the files over to a CD, and AV scanned it- didn't install anything yet...

after I go get the correct mmc & the DX9, I can then try installing all these puppies...

2 Qs:
does sp2 'need' to go on line & 'verify' xpee itself?
does a restore point work ok at all of these steps?

[edDV]

Ed- well, I guess I should have explained a lil better... I just downloaded them to the laptop and burned the files over to a CD, and AV scanned it- didn't install anything yet...

after I go get the correct mmc & the DX9, I can then try installing all these puppies...

2 Qs:
does sp2 'need' to go on line & 'verify' xpee itself?
does a restore point work ok at all of these steps?

I'd do a disk image if possible before proceeding.
Read the release notes in detail to see if SP2 is required.

[ofbarea]

ahhaa,

I do not know if SP2 is relly needed or not, but ATI Catalyst 6.4 recomed to have SP2 installed. At least with SP2 and direct X 9c you will have default MS drivers fro the 8500DV.

When I rebuilded my PC I installed XP, then SP1, then SP2, then DX 9c, then .NET (as requested by Catalyst 6.4)

After all of this was set up, I installed Catalyst 6.4, then DAO / MDAC and finally MMC.

I think Catalyst 6.4 should work with SP1, but they will need .NET for the control panel configuration software.

DX 9c is a prerequisite of MMC 9.08.

[ahhaa]

OK, dl'd the packages for mmc 9.03 & 9.08;

found out why the original CD doesn't verify- its 7.7.1 from 2004, and they say you have to order another CD from them so their verifier program will work... so I can dl an update?

The DX9 didn't go so well, unless its only 30 some megs. ms sent a 'verifier' program first, that had to be installed (on my ME laptop) almost anything you get from them these days seems to be doing that.

I don't know how you guys feel, but with all the news of personal records, calls, etc being turned over, and only google fighting back, I noticed that nobody ever mentions ms, the biggest dataminer out there. cnet's had a bunch of stories about it lately, especially DRM probs. ah well...

oh Ed, just fyi, I remembered why I tried to dl the player/encoder; its because I wanted the closed caption>textfile function. I forgot to ask that Q: will that function work with a different player?

again, thanks for all your patience, guys!

[ofbarea]

In this post they have a direct link for WXP SP2: http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=72030&enterthread=y

I think this is a direct link to download DX9c from miscrosoft own server:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/9/7/3972f80c-5711-4e14-9483-959d48a2d03b/dire...006_redist.exe

[ahhaa]

Of- I got them direct from the MS website.
Thanks for reminding me of that Epia forum!

[ofbarea]

If you still what to use the ATI decoder, check this post and look for file called ATI_Digital_Decoder_4_1_no_disk.rar. To open this file you will need to download and install WinRAR.

If you still want to to use this crappy decoder then install it before you install ATI MMC.

In sumarry this will be the order of installing stuff:

MS SP2 from MS site
MS DX9c from MS site
.Net from ATI site (get it in the Catalyst 6.4 download page)
ATI Catalyst 6.4 drivers from ATI site
DAO / MDAC from ATI site (get it in the MMC 9.08 download page)
ATI decoder from rar file...
ATI decoder from ATI site (get it in the MMC 9.08 download page)
MMC 9.08 fom ATI site