Video Playback on PC bad, even playing commercial videos

[learnitall]

I used to be able to play DVDs on my computer just fine.

I wanted to learn to burn DVD videos.

I downloaded some codecs and was going to try to do it with shareware or freeware, but decided it would be pretty complicated. Then I bought and installed Roxio Easy Media Creator 8.

The first DVD I burned had streaks through it and boxes (like big pixels) popping up around it, when played on the PC and on TV's DVD player.

I have since found that I can play videos that are on my hard drive just fine, but if I play a DVD from either my DVD burner or CD/DVD drive, it has the streaks and boxes around it. This happens even if I play a store bought DVD.

I tried searching for this problem, but I'm not sure what the term is, for the problem I'm having. Is it related to dropout? Is it a codec conflict? Is it something else altogether?

If I even knew what to search on, I might have better luck finding the answer. Searching on dropout, playback quality, or codec conflict seemed to point to problems different than mine.

I'm running Win XP, using TDK 880N burner.

What do I do now? Please advise!!! Thanks.

Cindy

[edDV]

Could be the codecs you loaded. Try to uninstall those codecs, old apps and Roxio. Then uninstall/reinstall the DVD burner from its original install CD and get it working first. At least get it to where it will play a commercial DVD.

Then reinstall Roxio and test.

[learnitall]

I was looking for the original drivers/firmware to re-install the DVD drive, and then realized/remembered that it didn't have any for Win XP. It was just using generic Windows drivers. The CD only had drivers for Win 98/ME.

Then I remembered that I recently began using the drive with Firewire, but it also has connectivity for USB (which I'd used before). I reconnected it with USB 2.0 and now it works fine. However, there is no firmware upgrade and no different driver for the DVD burner for using it with Firewire.

It's a TDK 880N external drive. I sent an email to TDK Tech Support asking if they knew anything about why the Firewire connection won't work.

In the meantime, with USB, I can now play my commercial DVD videos again, with all of the players.

I wonder if burning the DVD using the Firewire explains why the result sucked, even when played back on the TV's DVD player. IDoes that
sound likely?

'll have to try to burn it again using the USB wire.

D

[edDV]

These things just need trial and error experimentation. All I can suggest is disconnect other IEEE-1394 devices when burning.

[Nelson37]

Well, it works with USB and does NOT work with firewire, so there's your answer.

Next question is did it EVER work with firewire? If so, then something has changed this situation. If not, it could be a defect in the drive or a problem with your firewire card or drivers. Update drivers and firmware.

Disconnecting other firewire devices, if any, also a good idea.

When a problem such as this occurs, you need to mention ALL changes which happen in between the time it DID work and the time it DID NOT work. Particularly those closely connected to the drive, such as the way you interface it with the PC. Then work toward isolating a single condition which will change the situation, such as you have now determined.

USB good, Firewire bad. All other software now removed from equation. Never worked on Firewire, (confirm this?), problem is either PC firewire interface or Drive interface. Test firewire with other device using similar bandwidth, such as a video camera, if available. Update all related drivers and firmware. Test with other firewire card, these are relatively cheap. If drivers, firmware, and card do not solve, problem is isolated to drive's firewire interface. Either wait for another update from drive maker or replace, or just use USB.

[learnitall]

In response to your question: did it EVER work with firewire?

Well, I just tried playing a video for the first time since the "fire wire" connection, and it didn't work; I tried burning my first video DVD ever, which happened to be with firewire and it didn't work.

I have used the drive to copy data DVDs, like backups and they seemed to work ok. In fact for the video DVD the file is on the DVD it just plays back with lousy quality. What aspects could affect creating streaky lines and pixel-like boxes appearing on a video DVD ( when played on PC or TV's DVD player)?

I went to TDK's website and there is no firmware upgrade. There isn't even a driver for my 880N drive for Win XP - it just uses a generic Windows driver. I don't know if there's a way to get an update on a generic Windows driver.

I don't automatically take all Windows updates because I once did that on a brand new computer and it wouldn't even boot afterwards. So now, I selectively update.

I still need to try to reburn the video using USB. I'll post if that works or not.

Are there other tests you can think of, that may help me isolate what component is failing?

[Nelson37]

So you had Successfully Played, but never Burned, a DVD using USB previously? Then switched to Firewire and both playback and burn failed?

Am confused by your mention of playback failure in a second DVD drive, is this drive internal or on the same External interface, and if so did it fail on Firewire or USB? If internal, was playback failure with a DVD burned thru Firewire or with a commercial disk?

Clarification of second paragraph Very Important in isolating your problem.

Note that you are defining "did not work" on the burn by describing a playback issue which also apparently occurs with a Commercial Disk even on a second, differently connected DVD drive on the same PC. If that is the case then you have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT problem.

[learnitall]

Sorry. I didn't see your reply on this sooner, or I would have replied sooner.

I had successfully played DVDs before using the drive, using USB.

I had never burned a DVD "VIDEO" before, period.

I switched from a USB connection to Firewire connection for same external drive.

I burned a DVD "data" backup of my system using Firewire that seemed to work, but I didn't try to restore it.

I burned a DVD "video" using Firewire and the video quality was awful.
I tried to play a purchased DVD video using Firewire, and it was also awful quality.

I switched the connection back to USB and the commercial DVD video played fine (with USB).

I then re-burned my DVD video using USB and the quality is fine.

So, Firewire isn't working for my drive for some reason. It uses a generic Win XP driver and the TDK site says there is no firmware upgrade. It's a TDK 880N external drive.

For now, I won't use Firewire, but does this mean it's a problem with my drive, or could there be something on my system that could impact this?

Thanks.

[edDV]

...

For now, I won't use Firewire, but does this mean it's a problem with my drive, or could there be something on my system that could impact this?

Thanks.

Try it on another computer that has known good IEEE-1394. It could be the drive enclosure IEEE-1394 to IDE bridge isn't working.

[Nelson37]

Test your firewire card and drivers by capping some video thru it. Driver update for PC card wouldn't hurt, also try another model. Not necessarily better, just different.

Test your drive as suggested above, by connecting to another PC whose Firewire is KNOWN to be working.

A key to the test is to use some hi-bandwidth, low error-correction source, such as video. The problem may not occur on low-bandwidth sources with error-correction as evidenced by your apparently good data backup. Though we actually have no evidence that that data backup is any good at all.

[gadgetguy]

Don't forget the firewire cable. Try a different cable, especially if you can test it with one that is being used with a working device.

[learnitall]

I tried the device with another cable on another system and it had exactly the same problem. It is using Win 2K and I use Win XP.

I'm using a laptop, so my wire is the Firewire 6-4 type, where the other is a desktop with the same connector on each end (6-6, I guess). But both had exactly the same problem.

This DVD burner is the only Firewire device that I have at the moment (at least that I'm aware of), so I can't test other devices with the same wire.

I got another firewire 6-4 cable that's a little retractable one, for use with a laptop, and it doesn't even recognize the device at all - it seems like that cable might be bad.

Could there be any glitch caused by the fact that the drive was originally installed on the system using USB and then later connected using Firewire?

If not, then it sounds like a problem with the drive to me (firmware or drivers) since the same drive on 2 different OS versions with 2 different cables had the same problem. However, the TDK site says just to use the std. Windows drivers and has no firmware update. Could I be the first one encountering this?

[Nelson37]

By "exactly the same problem" do you mean that you burned a video DVD and the quality was awful, AND you attempted playback of a commercial DVD and the quality was awful? You performed BOTH of these tests? Or just one? Will the other PC play a DVD in its built-in drive? It is necessary to validate this in order to have a good test.

Must emphasize that the burning of a video DVD involves too many variables for that alone to constitute a valid test all by itself.

What firewire devices are now or have been in use on the other PC?

Where did the second 6-4 cable come from? If purchased, exchange it and test again. Bad cables are not unheard of, just not terribly common. Raises suspicion of simply a bad or loose interface connector on one end or the other. Each removal and insertion of cable creates a completely new condition in such a case.

In order to absolutely isolate or eliminate single causes of error, you must insert KNOWN factors, not just different factors. If I had a nickel for every time I've thought "what are the odds of THAT being defective also?" I'd have a MUCH faster computer right now.

Very good odds the drive simply doesn't work with firewire. However, from given info it is possible that your firewire card has a bad interface AND the second PC is unable to properly play back a DVD, and your drive is actually just fine.

What the manufacturer Says it should do is damn near completely irrelevant, meaningless, useless, of no value, complete bullshit, you get the idea. I believe what it does when I see it perform.

[learnitall]

I mean that the second system cannot even play the same commercial purchased DVD using a firewire cable on the same drive. It gets the same streaks and box shaped speckles in the video display. The other system hasn't burned a DVD using firewire on the drive. Neither system has other firewire capable devices, so I can't narrow down that avenue at this point.

The second firewire 6-4 cable that doesn't even work as well as the first one, was purchased.

So the trouble is I'm new to DVD video burning and I'm new to firewire, I don't have other firewire devices. I eliminated as many variables as I could with the equipment and knowledge I've got. I've got a fair amount of knowledge of Windows, but am pretty clueless about video technology.

To eliminate known variables, I thought of trying the commercial DVD on the drive with firewire to help figure out if it was the DVD burning software/codecs or not and I believe I've taken the burning software out of the suspect list. I just need to figure out more tests to differentiate between the drive, driver, firmware, and the cable, without having to buy
a bunch more stuff.

Do you think the problem is purely related to video? I ran a backup using the firewire and it told me it was ok, although I didn't try to restore it. If I copy one file to DVD, restore it elsewhere and compare the two, does that prove much, or are there enough video specific variables that it won't really eliminate any known culprits sufficiently?

[Nelson37]

Playing video is a hi-thruput task that is difficlult to duplicate in any other way.

Copying a file, you would need to do a bit for bit test like the old FileCompare utility, still built-in, I think. However, that doesn't really give a hi-thruput test.

Does this second PC have an internal DVD Drive? If not, you could copy a short segment of DVD video to CD and test the playback that way. You must establish that this second PC is in fact capable of playing back DVD (either disk or DVD-mpg file) to nail down that the faulty playback is indeed the fault of the drive. Is it using same playback software you have, or even worse did you install your playback software on this PC? Hopefully you did not install yours as this would completely pollute the testing environment, leaving open the possibility that there is a bug in the program. Even with no install, if the other has the same software then that possibility is open.

Very interesting that second, brand-new cable fails completely. Exchange it and test. Carefully examine the ends of the current cable and the input connectors on the drive. Possible a pin has broke off, makes intermittent contact with old cable and does not allow proper insertion of new cable. Examine all ends with light and magnification.

So far, cable and drive are only unchanged elements in the failure scenario. MUST ESTABLISH that second PC can play DVD video, and exchange that cable and test.

Also, what type of firewire card does second PC have? Establish both card and chipset. Some devices just don't work with a particular chipset.
If second PC has same card and/or chipset, then we are back to square one, if same playback software then we really haven't established anything, other than probably not some corrupt file or virus on your PC, but then do you two E-mail each other, or connect in a LAN, at any time?
That would even throw that out.

See how much fun this can be?

[learnitall]

My laptop has an internal CDRW/DVD drive that will play video and I can play video successfully using that. Ditto with the second system. Both systems are on the same LAN (in home wireless network).

The second system does not have the same software or set of codecs on it. It has fairly old video programs on it (4-6 years old, approx).

Both systems have the same problem. Neither of us can play video on the drive using firewire successfully. Both of us can play video on the same drive if connected via USB 2.0. I haven't gotten a third firewire cable yet, but it seems like it must be either the cable or that the drive doesn't work with firewire.

[Nelson37]

Definitely exchange that cable. That the old one works incorrectly, and a brand new one does not work at all, is very interesting and would be the primary point to investigate, especially since there should be zero cost involved.

Assuming new cable gives same result as original cable ( if no connection, thoroughly check for broken pin), next would be to establish type of firewire chipset in use on both machines. Texas Instruments is one, and I forget the other main chipset used. Some devices will work with one and not the other. If two machines have different chipsets, and new cable is same as original, then next best guess is the drive simply does not work properly with firewire. Suggest contact manufacturer and raise hell. Do not go into detail, just state it will not properly play a commercial DVD thru Firewire. You may get an updated replacement, you may get bupkus.

[learnitall]

We tried a different cable on the other system and the symptoms were the same. My system has Texas Instruments 1394 Host Controller. The other system has VIA and it doesn't work for either of us, so I guess that means that the problem is the drive.

I can't find the information about what 1394 chipset is on the TDK drive itself.

I guess I'll contact TDK about the Firewire problem.

Thanks a lot for the help with this.

[Nelson37]

By "symptoms were the same" do you mean the same garbled playback or the same complete failure to connect? First case you are right, its the drive. If the second case then there has got to be a broken pin or faulty connector somewhere.

[learnitall]

I mean it is the same garbled playback of a commercial DVD using firewire with the drive.