HDMI frustrations...

[Xylob the Destroyer]

am I missing something here?
why doesn't any company make a video card that supports HDMI?
don't give me the piracy argument, because it's bullshit... what devices other than monitors/HDTV's have HDMI input? none.
am I expecting too much to be able to connect my video card to an HDTV via it's HDMI input? seriously?
there is no good reason that I souldn't be able to do this without buying some expensive video conversion device and/or incredibly comlicated piece of software requiring a degree in god knows what (is there an easy to follow instruction manual for normal people on PowerStrip??) just to view my PC on an HDTV via HDMI!!
I bought the TV with the HDMI because it was supposed to soon be the standard format for digital video.....
I'm a consumer, not a freaking engineer or computer programmer...

Can anybody please tell me how to connect a video card to an HDTV with HDMI? or at the very least, point me to a company that makes cards capable of communicating with an HDMI device?

yes, I've already used the search feature on the forum, no it didn't help me with my problem.

in cyberspace, no one can hear me scream... (so... unbelievably... frustrated!)

there is no good reason that this shit should be so damned difficult!
[end of rant][/img]

[lumis]

it might be bullshit, but it's the truth..

if someone figured out a way to compromise a video card or its drivers to output over HDMI without any protections, then hollywood would be very sad.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

well....
DOODY!!!

[compuser]

Did a quick search on Google:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16010

Sapphire has reportedly showcased at CES a new graphics card that offers two outputs, a VGA and an HDMI. But desides that, the graphics card takes advantage of the HDMI interface to deliver a unique feature: sound.

Of course, the HDMI interface is capable of passing through both audio and video digital information. The HDMI interface has been proposed for next-generation DVD devices, for PC displays in a slightly different version and of course, in consumer electronics devices such as TVs, recorders, players etc. But Sapphire's graphics card is the first that is equipped with an HDMI interface, as well as with a SIL chip that outputs sound.

The idea is unique but it was an option from the technical point of view, if you consider that the future graphics cards would have to deal with the next-generation HD content and thus, support the HDCP content protection schemes. The HDMI-equipped graphics cards could be a solution in order to bridge consumer electronics with the PC.

ATI has already announced that it will incorporate the SiI 1390 transmitters from Silicon Image, to interface directly to the video and audio interfaces of PC platforms and enable secure access to high definition content. But ATI's Technical PR Manager for Europe, Mr Rene Froeleke had not hinted at the possibility of equiping graphics cards with an HDMI interface when the question was posed to him in an interview with CDRInfo last September.

Sapphire seems to have taken the step and uses the HDMI capabilities to give sound to its HDMI X1600Pro mid-range card. However, it is not certain whether the card will be available comercially anytime soon.

Sapphire's card is not the first PC related device that uses the HDMI interface. The new Toshiba Qosmio notebook uses an HDMI interface to output video/audio content coming from its HD DVD-ROM drive. As a sidenote, the specific device did not support the Managed Copy function of the HD DVD format.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,2801.html

[Xylob the Destroyer]

well that's pretty sweet.
does sapphire make decent cards?

[waheed]

Dont know about HDMI, but most newer cards that are DVI are also HDCP complaint (which means they are compliant with upcoming Blu Ray/HD DVD too). You can get DVI to HDMI cables from almost any electronics stores.

I just did a quick google on my Galaxy 66000GT PCI-E card and it does support HDCP through DVI. maybe yours does too.

The only downside of DVI compared with HDMI is that it does not pass through audio, only video.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

yeh, i bought a DVI to HDMI cable and connected my video card to my TV.
there's a picture, but it's fucked, and I can't make any adjustments or changes.
Windows recognizes the "monitor" as "Sony Television", but I can't adjust the resolution or any aspect of what I'm seeing on it.
It's like the picture is too big for the screen.... I can't see the task bar -- can't see the edges of the picture.

[edDV]

OK direct the rants to
http://www.mpaa.org/

Not quite sure what you want to do. HDCP is only an issue when triggered by copy protected stuff. Are to saying your TV is rejecting an unencrytped DVI to HDMI connection?

If so your beef is with the TV manufacturer who may be requiring HDCP handshakes for the port to be used. I've never seen this. Talk to them about what their port will take.

Keep in mind that the HDMI port wasn't put there for YOUR convenience. It is there to support HDCP.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I'm just trying to use my HDTV as a monitor....
Mainly for gaming purposes (I know that it will never display text as well as a true PC monitor).
S-Video is poop...
Hell, if there was a way to utilize one of the component inputs on the blasted TV, that would be better than S-Video.
But why eat hamburger when you can (theoretically) have filet mignon?
Video card has a DVI out, TV has an HDMI in.
All I want is the 'hi-res' PC video signal, I've got a decent sound card already.
Digital video to digital TV -- shouldn't be so hard...

[edDV]

yeh, i bought a DVI to HDMI cable and connected my video card to my TV.
there's a picture, but it's fucked, and I can't make any adjustments or changes.
Windows recognizes the "monitor" as "Sony Television", but I can't adjust the resolution or any aspect of what I'm seeing on it.
It's like the picture is too big for the screen.... I can't see the task bar -- can't see the edges of the picture.

OK now you see a picture. 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p are fixed interface standards. There is no standard for how the display card company preformats the data or how the TV set manufacturer displays the result.

No, you can't adjust the resolution other than picking 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p. This isn't a computer display, its a TV.

TV manufactures routinely "overscan" or people even more vocal than you complain about black edges, visible VITC or other garbage put on the four sides by upstream equipment.

"I can't see the task bar -- can't see the edges of the picture."

No because it isn't a computer monitor, its a TV. If the TV manufacturer advertised it to be used as a computer monitor, then you should yell at them.

Display card companies often have scaling options to compensate for montor overscan but the image does get scaled and thus gets fuzzy.

A HDTV makes a good video display, but a poor computer display.

[edDV]

I'm just trying to use my HDTV as a monitor....
Mainly for gaming purposes (I know that it will never display text as well as a true PC monitor).
S-Video is poop...
Hell, if there was a way to utilize one of the component inputs on the blasted TV, that would be better than S-Video.
But why eat hamburger when you can (theoretically) have filet mignon?
Video card has a DVI out, TV has an HDMI in.
All I want is the 'hi-res' PC video signal, I've got a decent sound card already.
Digital video to digital TV -- shouldn't be so hard...

Ahh for games. Now you have a beef with the game developers that never beta tested with a typical home HDTV. Those menus need to be moved inside a 10% overscan area or they won't be visible. --- stupid software developers

You may be able to hire some service guy to internally readjust* your HDTV for zero overscan. If you do, expect to see garbage on the four sides during normal TV transmission.


* this is likely to be possible only with CRT and front/rear projector technology.

[dLee]

I was having a similar problem setting up my Sony KV-36XBR800 CRT TV to use as a computer monitor while capturing from my DishPVR, LD and VCR via my ATI AIW 9800 Pro.

The OS and your AIW card is recognizing the Sony TV, so you're half way there.

I connected my AIW card to Video7 on the TV, which is labeled DVI-HDTV In. Not the same as your connection, I know, but I think you solved that problem already.

The Catalyst default display resolution (and size) when using the DVI out on the card is less than ideal for the 16:9 AR letterbox that my TV displays (on the 4:3 screen) when using the DVI connection.

I tried to change the screen resolution to match the display, but because the default caused the Catalyst Control Center GUI to display the "Apply" button below the bottom edge of the desktop display, I couldn't click it! (Same for Display Properties dialogue that you get when you right click on the desktop.)

I downloaded PowerStrip and installed it, using a computer monitor in my studio. Moved the computer back to the TV. The PowerStrip GUI displayed the "Apply" button in such a way that I could click on it.

I eventually found a resolution (1152x648 @ 60Hertz) that works well.

I can sit at a normal distance and read email, websurf and use a word processor, although I mostly capture with this setup.

The MMC TV app and the File Player app work great. In full screen mode (full screen for a 16:9 desktop displayed on a 4:3 TV) they give me an excellent approximation of the input and capture quality.

I can also use MPEG Video Wizard and VideoReDo Plus to edit my MPEG2 captures.

If only ATI would introduce a setting in MMC that would compensate for the IRE 7.5 problem during capture, I would have an ideal setup.

My TV manual says it is not intended for use as a computer monitor and I've read some postings that warn of possible damage to the TV, I think relating to using the wrong refresh rates.

Hope this helps.


Since this is my first post here, I would like to thank Baldrick, the Mods and the contributers to this site. I lurked for a couple of years and received an excellent education in DV, capturing, hardware and restoration. Hopefully, I can contribute something to this valuable resource.

[gshelley61]

Some fixed pixel HDTV displays like DLP and LCD sets can work OK as computer and gaming monitors, and usually have a VGA input in addition to their DVI or HDMI inputs. Displays with 1280x720p native resolution or higher can provide a surprisingly good picture for computer graphics.

Direct display CRT TV's have too much overscan to be useful as computer monitors, plus their native resolution is generally not very good so graphics look like crap. Plus, you can accidentially burn in text into the screen when gaming if you're not careful.

[edDV]

Some fixed pixel HDTV displays like DLP and LCD sets can work OK as computer and gaming monitors, and usually have a VGA input in addition to their DVI or HDMI inputs. Displays with 1280x720p native resolution or higher can provide a surprisingly good picture for computer graphics.

Direct display CRT TV's have too much overscan to be useful as computer monitors, plus their native resolution is generally not very good so graphics look like crap. Plus, you can accidentially burn in text into the screen when gaming if you're not careful.

A VGA input and a list of supported computer screen sizes (e.g. 1024x768 or 1280x1024) is the best clue that the TV will also work as a computer monitor. I still wouldn't buy one without a demo. Quality HDTV monitors will have gamma and color response that might look strange as a computer display.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

excellent food for thought
dLee, it sounds like your TV is similar to mine -- mine is also a 36" Sony.
thanks for your input guys, I'll keep plugging away.
BTW, the refresh rate issue -- it should be 60Hertz, correct?

[edDV]

50/60Hz is the best starting point.

[dLee]

Once the monitor was recognized as a Sony TV, Windows (Display Properties ¦ Settings ¦ Advanced ¦ Monitor) would show 60Hz as the only available refresh rate.

Catalyst and PowerStrip would allow me to choose other refresh rates, I think, but I can't check that right now.

One feature I like about the 9800Pro and Catalyst is that it recognizes which monitor is connected and loads the correct settings. When I move it from the TV to the studio computer monitor, I never have to manually change the display settings.

[edDV]

Stick to 60 Hz for that one. It's a normal TV.

[dLee]

I do understand why 60Hz is the correct refresh rate for a consumer TV, in retrospect, anyway.

The ATI AIW 9800 Pro has two resolutions (@ 60Hz) that are exactly 16:9 - 1152x648 and 1920x1080. It has two other resolutions that are close to 16:9 - 1360x768 and 1776x1000.

1152x648 is the resolution that I prefer. I can sit at a normal distance and edit video, read text etc. At 1920x1080 text is very small and hard to read. The other two resolutions result in small parts of the desktop edge being out of the 16:9 display area. Text is also harder to read.

[pfh]

Interesting.. just started to research this hdmi input too and from reading edDV's various insights around here came to some pre-conclusions.
1. At the present time HDMI inputs aren't meant for computer connections.
2. Best to use the VGA connection.
3. Better off using an LCD monitor/tv for such hook-ups.
4. Nvidia an ATI have optimized their hardware and s/w for computer graphics.
5. Computer graphics and a tv displaying those graphics is hard to understand and I have a lot to learn.

xylob- you are not the only one wondering about these same issues. I am thinking about buying an x800xl AIW for an HTPC but certainly more research is needed on my part. Keep us posted on yur progress. Thanks.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I've got the AIW 9000Pro, which doesn't support component video out...
although, I'm not convinced that a card with component support would really provide an image that's all that much better than the S-Video I'm using now...
I'd like to get the AIW X800XT, but it's a bit pricey at present....
I'm also in the process of buying my first house, which is demanding a lot of my time and attention (not to mention $$'s).
P'n'P sure would be nice, but that's obviously a deluded dream...