Buy an HDTV pci capture card now? Pros and Cons - please.

[EAO]

I have been considering upgrading from my Hauppauge WINPVR-250 to a hardware based HDTV card for my PC. It would need to run on XP Home and Pro. (I am not going to use it with Vista - at least not unless some things change.)

I would currently want to plug into the s-video output of my Dish Network reciever. However in the future - within say 1 and a half years - I will probably switch to HDTV either with Dish or Direct. Depending on who the majority thinks has less macroblocking with the new compression.

I'd like the card to be able to use the analog signal from both the std and hdtv reciever's. It would be nice if I could input a true digital signal.... even if it's not full HDTV because I have to believe the quality of new HDTV recievers will be better than what they use now.

[DVWannaB]

Do it.

Go with the MIT MyHD MDP-130 (with optional daughtercard). Will not regret it.

Things to know. No HD PCI card can capture HD streams from your satellite providers. They can all do over-the-air HD transmissions, which are your local network stations. So when you decide to switch to HD service from any provider, none of these cards will help capture the streams, nor do any of the PCI manufacturers plan on doing that.

So by and large, a HD PCI card is best for over-the-air HD network broadcasts. They can certainly hook up a svideo cable and capture video, but it will not be high definition.

[EAO]

Do it.

So by and large, a HD PCI card is best for over-the-air HD network broadcasts. They can certainly hook up a svideo cable and capture video, but it will not be high definition.

But logic would dictate that the resolution / bitrate that it would be outputted from the HDTV reciever would be better than what is currently being sent (and captured) over a std reciever.

Which leads me to another question...

Does the signal from an HDTV Dish or Direct reciever have more resolution (higher bitrate) even on non HDTV channels than a comparable std Dish or Direct reciever

[DVWannaB]

Oooohhhh..........you want the dirty little secret that these folks dont like to talk about

The flat out truth is that even on a HD box ESPN bitrate is the same as ESPN on non-HD receiver. ONLY the HD channels broadcast in a higher bitrate and resolution. Check some of the various message boards on doom9.org and AVSforum and you will see many a complaint about even basic HD quality.

So yes, ONLY the HD channels carry higher greater quality and differ from in that regards from non-HD cahnnels & receivers. But with that said, you dont need a HDTV PCI card to capture non-HDTV stuff. What I forgot to mention in my first response is that if you are using svideo cables you have to set your HD receiver at Standard Defintion (SD) so that the video can be seen through svideo. Svideo cannot pass HDTV through. Even so, I think the SD capture of, lets say, HBO-HD should give better picture than the regular HBO channel.

If your intent is to capture movies (HBO, etc) and sports (ESPN, etc), I dont know if this a solution that would best suit your needs. It can certainly accomplish the capture, but you can spend half that on MPEG2 capture device and do the exact thing. That plus if you do subscribe to HD service, you still have to down-rez the receiver to capture the HD channels.

[dphirschler]

Of course, the other option is to get the HD PVR (I think they call it a DVR) to record your HD programming to a harddrive. Then you output it via firewire to your PC. Problem is most of the good broadcasts are encrypted. So you can not output a clean stream, only analog Svideo (480 lines).


Darryl

[EAO]

Thank you both so much for clearing this up.

I'm going to wait - unless I get a great deal. ($100.00 would make me jump)

In all honesty there is really nothing on local channels that I am interested in capturing and the channels I do want to cap from are currently not in HD so....

... since an HD reciever will not improve the non HD statiions (current macroblocking on both Direct and Dish) I'll wait for the mpeg4 standard to come out.

Then we'll see if they stretch their increased bandwidth as thin as they currently do.

[Megahurts]

The MyHD-130 card is great for capturing HD OTA. It also has a QAM tuner if your cable company supplies HD in the clear.

To capture SD, you have to choose an AVI codec. He highest res I was able to capture with any codec was 352x240. Anything higher was not playable.

Chas

[dphirschler]

The MyHD-130 card is great for capturing HD OTA. It also has a QAM tuner if your cable company supplies HD in the clear.

I have the FusionHDTV3 (T/Q) which also receives OTA or QAM (over cable). BTW, I read (probably on avsforum) that local HD programming by law MUST be broadcast in the clear.


Darryl

[guns1inger]

highest res I was able to capture with any codec was 352x240. Anything higher was not playable.

At that res it has little or no value. Surely you could do better.

[FulciLives]

I seem to recall an old thread (probably last 6 months to a year) where BJM (I think it was he) posted a link to an internal PCI HDTV capture card that could capture even encrypted channels.

Of course as I recall the price was like $500 or so U.S. Dollars.

In fact I think I saved the link ...

OK I think I found the correct link ---> CLICK HERE

And I was wrong about the price. It's actually $595

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Megahurts]

@ dphirschler,

All OTA HD programming is in the clear. Some cable companies supply network HD programs in the clear but some don't. Were I live, you have to subscribe to digital cable and use their box to receive HD.

How does your Fusion HD card capture SD?


@ guns1linger,

I agree, 352x240 is not acceptable. I wish I could do better.


Chas

[vhelp]

Excuse me.. what is "clear" ??

Thanks,
-vhelp 3760

[FulciLives]

Excuse me.. what is "clear" ??

Thanks,
-vhelp 3760

He means OTA or Over The Air HDTV is unencrypted and can be recorded with standard HDTV tuner type capture cards.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

Tanx for answering there, fulci pal.

(I'm researching OTA pci/DVB cards and OTA-ready antennas [indoor types]
as a backup to my Cable (see other post in Off Topic) struggles)

..and this little bit of info is helping.
PS: I just wish this forum had info (lots of user posts) on this topic
ot OTA; UHF Antenna info; and DVB/OTA pci cards, ..but they don't

-vhelp 3762

[DVWannaB]

I seem to recall an old thread (probably last 6 months to a year) where BJM (I think it was he) posted a link to an internal PCI HDTV capture card that could capture even encrypted channels.

Of course as I recall the price was like $500 or so U.S. Dollars.

In fact I think I saved the link ...

OK I think I found the correct link ---> CLICK HERE

And I was wrong about the price. It's actually $595

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Fulci, this card may in fact capture encrypted HD material to your computer, but you will be stuck there. You will not be able to archive it for future use or whatever else. While it may capture encrypted material to a computer hard drive, the encryption is still in the file which only allows you to watch it once and you cannot edit it, burn it do disc or transfer to any other medium. There are a few local cable providers that are still broadcasting premium HD in a non-encrypted environment. But they are few and far between and pretty soon they too will go the way of the dinosaur. If anyone is so fortunate to have this freedom, enjoy it while it lasts.

The channels with the encryption are HBO-HD, ESPN & 2 HD, Showtime HD, INHD & HDNet, and some others. Not sure about Discovery HD.

vhelp,
I have a MIT MyHD MDP-130 PCI HDTV card and a Dvico FusionHDTV 5 USB (see my review in the capture card section). I use both with a Channel Master CM4228 (long range) and Antenna Direct DB4 (medium range) antenna. Both are in the back of my house, so as not to be an eye-sore. I capture HDTV over-the-air (OTA) from NBC, FOX, CBS, ABC & PBS. HDTV is fantastic. Quality is unbeatable and is what TV watching should have been for some time now.

There is tons of information of the avsforum. Actually you will be overwhelmed by the amount of info on HDTV and equipment. If you guys go there, you will even see some underground stuff that you wouldnt think possible. But my lips are sealed

[vhelp]

There is tons of information of the avsforum. Actually you will be overwhelmed
by the amount of info on HDTV and equipment. If you guys go there, you will even see
some underground stuff that you wouldnt think possible. But my lips are sealed

<begin OT>
I know.. I have several links in my favorites, over at work
But, you are right.. very overwhelming indeed. But, I was hoping
to find info HERE, instead of breaking off into so many zones.

Thanks for posting your setup. I was about to start an official
VCDHELP antenna thread here, when I decided to first get some of
my facts organized, later on

In the mean time, I will continue to compose my throughts and if
I get around to it, post an official topic. </end OT>

Oh, actually, I am registered over at avsforums (see my post count)

Thanks again,
-vhelp 3763

[dphirschler]

@ dphirschler,
How does your Fusion HD card capture SD?

Well, I receive both analog and digital SD channels as well as the HDTV channels. It will capture the digital SD channels perfectly as it is simply saving the stream. The analog captures look poor to me. The software that comes with it only give you a couple of choices for encoding, and no choice to capture uncompressed (or Huffyuv or Picvideo). So I guess my answer is that the captured picture looks great, but the encoding quality they offer sucks. I haven't tried any other software for capturing yet. I use my other PC for that kind of stuff.


Darryl

[lacywest]

@ dphirschler,
How does your Fusion HD card capture SD?

Well, I receive both analog and digital SD channels as well as the HDTV channels. It will capture the digital SD channels perfectly as it is simply saving the stream. The analog captures look poor to me. The software that comes with it only give you a couple of choices for encoding, and no choice to capture uncompressed (or Huffyuv or Picvideo). So I guess my answer is that the captured picture looks great, but the encoding quality they offer sucks. I haven't tried any other software for capturing yet. I use my other PC for that kind of stuff.


Darryl

Your answer doesn't sound good ... You can't use Virtual Dub ... ??

What about ... InterVideo WinDVR 3 ... ??

Of all the ways we capture videos and talk about them here at DVDRHelp ... what can we use ??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It does mention at the link below ...

DVD/MPEG4(DivX) Conversion
Supports conversion from HDTV stream to DVD, MPEG4(DivX)
Ulead Video Studio8 bundled for DVD authoring and burning

.... so if it uses ... Ulead Video Studio 8 ... then I guess it can use other video rendering programs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I plan on getting one [HDTV Tuner Card] ... very soon ... a matter of days or couple of weeks.

http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/ATSC5Gold.aspx

I bought 25 [5 five foot lengths] feet of antenna steel pole and a WineGuard antenna ... earlier today.

Fresno, CA ... has quite a few stations ... broadcasting HDTV .... and capturing and burning to DVD or DVD-RAM disks is a high possibility.

Comcast Cable does a lousy job of re-broadcasting the local channels.

[dphirschler]

What I thought I said was that I have not tried capturing in any other program other than the TV software that comes with the Fusion card. I did attempt to set up Media Portal once but could not figure out how to set up the tuner. I've never tried to capture in Virtual Dub or Virtual VCR either. I am quite certain I can capture in those programs, but not so certain I can set up the tuner. If I can find the time, then I will try some different programs for capturing and report back. However, I may need some help in setting it up, so please be patient with me.


Darryl

[lacywest]

I seem to have two articles here ... of the same thing ... sorry ... I don't know what happened

Here is a article ... with 3 TV tuners being reviewed ... good reading

http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2634&p=1

The ATI HD wonder ... was not one of them.

Quote from this site ... very large article ... quite a few pages ...

"" Today, we have a trio of TV Tuners for review, and while they have some similarities, they're also quite different in features, software, and performance. Two of the cards are - as far as I'm aware - the only HDTV tuners currently available for Windows that will handle QAM decoding. The cards are the MyHD MDP-130 and the DVICO Fusion5 Gold. (Older DVICO and MyHD cards may have handled this as well, to varying degrees.) The third card marks one of the first truly interesting PCIe X1 cards to appear on the market, the PowerColor Theater 550 PCIe. ""

LacyWest's Opinion >>> The MyHD MDP-130 ... seems the way to go ...

"" It should be immediately clear that this is a much larger card than the Fusion5. The added size comes with added features, so it's a worthwhile upgrade if you can afford it. First, two antenna inputs are supported, so you can connect an OTA DTV antenna as well as a cable connection, or an analog antenna and a digital antenna, or whatever other combination that you might come up with. While there are two inputs, it's important to note that this is not a dual-tuner card - you can't watch one channel and record another, or record two channels simultaneously. "" ... "" the MyHD features hardware-based decoding. The benefit of hardware decoding is that processor speed requirements are very reasonable - in fact, a second-hand PC is probably sufficient. The minimum system requirements list a Pentium II 400 MHz with 64MB of RAM. We didn't test in anything anywhere near that outdated, but we can say that CPU usage with our Sempron system remained very low. Even with the overlay window stretched to fill the 1280x720 output (which requires more processing power), CPU usage is well below 20% when watching digital channels. ""

LacyWest says ... but it depends on what you want .. for regular analog signals ... the PowerColor Theater 550 PCIe ... did well ... but I don't have an PCI Express mother board ... I will probably get the ... MyHD MDP-130

Link >> http://www.laaudiofile.com/mdp100.html

Links >>> http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=201695364&SearchEngine=LSsmarterdeals&Type=C...omp&adid=17662

Here is a review on the ATI HD Wonder >>>
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=1454&s=1

This webpage shows more than one TV Tuner Card >>>
https://www.digitalconnection.com/store/Product_List.asp?CID=3&CAT=HDTV%20TUNER%20CARD

[lacywest]

refer to my link at ...

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=292093