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  1. Banned
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    Hi, I recently purchased my first HDTV and am not able to find the answer to some questions I have to ask. I figured i'd give it a shot here since i've read many experts post on this site. My T.V is a Philips 30' Widescreen and i'm thrilled with the HD picture, it's incredible. I noticed that the back of my T.V has a "HDMI" input and from what I searched on google that appears to be the best form of "lossless" video connectors there are. I thought component video was the best but that's how much I knew. The back of my Cable box has a 'DVI' connector which is apparently better then component video as well?

    So I was just wondering if it is worth it to take off my component cables and purchase one of those "DVI TO HDMI" cables and use that? Would it really make a difference in quality over component video?

    And the second question I have relates to Dolby Digital 5.1. I see some broadcasts are DD5.1 but on my Tuner which is Sony, the broadcasts are coming in "PRO LOGIC" only. Anytime i'm watching a DVD which DD 5.1 a bright blue strip across the top of my Sony lights up to show the 5.1 signal. I didn't see that at all with the HD channels although some of them said they were in 5.1. I realized I had two RCA cables hooked up and took them off and tried a Digital Optical Cable and that worked but the problem was the receiver showed "PCM" as opposed to 5.1. So I still didn't get DD 5.1. My Sony only has one coaxial and one optical connector and it says "DVD/LD" I figured that may not make a difference if I hooked it up to the Cable box but i'm not sure. I' thinking maybe i need a different tuner that has an optical connector that says "CABLE/TV" or something maybe?

    Any info on these two things would be really helpful and appreciated.

    Thanks
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  2. HDMI really exists only for the benefit of content providers. It allows them to send an encrypted digital signal all the way from the source to the TV -- so you can't record it anywhere in between.

    In theory you might get a better picture but it will depend on which device has the better digital-to-analog converter, your cable box or your TV. I doubt you'll see much difference unless you have a really bad component cable or a really poor cable box.
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    junkmalle, thank you. So I guess it doesn't make any sense to even get the DVI TO HDMI cable then being that I probably won't get any noticeable quality improvement above what I currently have with my component cables.

    By any chance do you have any suggestions as to why i'm not getting Dolby Digital 5.1 on broadcasts that apparently are in 5.1? I don't see that blue strip across my Tuner light up like when I play a DVD that has DD 5.1. I only see "PRO LOGIC" or "PCM" on my tuner when using an Digital Optical cable.

    I've tried to contact my cable provider "COMCAST" but they claim they don't allow INCOMING calls to their 'HD' department. And it can be who knows who long before they get back to me, so I figured i'd just ask here.

    Thanks again.
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  4. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I don't have hdtv but does your tuner box even support dolby digital??? If it doesn't then you won't be able to receive it. If it does make sure you check the menus to enable it.

    Kevin
    Donatello - The Shredder? Michelangelo - Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw?
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  5. Dory, I'm not an expert on HDTV but that's my understanding of the HDMI situation. If you decide to try a DVI/HDMI converter be sure you can return it! You may run into problems with regular cable stations too -- they may not appear if you only use the DVI/HDMI cable. Which means you'll need both cables and have to switch back and forth between them all the time.

    I don't know about your DD 5.1 issue. I only have standard definition digital cable and although it has coax digital audio out it only supplies PCM too.
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    dvi is video signal only whereas the other carries audio as well.

    if your tv is say 34inch or larger, then definitely get digital hooked up! i use comcast dvi over component because i tested both ways on my 34in widescreen jvc and it made a nice difference, mostly because since there is no compression with dvi you see everything as it was intended to be broadcast. mainly, the difference is tighter detail (say close up shot of someones face and background is always darker than it's supposed to be with anything other than dvi. for instance, watching baseball on espn hdtv vs. using component allows to see much more in the background/stadium shadows. it's simple really, why not go digital to digital if you have comcast and hd tv with digital inputs?
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  7. HDMI is the video connector, it is esentially a DVI-D plus audio connection for the TV (HDCP is the ecription sceme that can be used with HDMI and DVI connections but it does not go hand in hand with either DVI or HDMI)

    The DVI link is supposed to be the best because it allows for an all digital connection from the source (either DVD or digital Cable/ATSC tuner) to the TV, vs Digital from the source-> converted to analog->passed over the component wires->converted back to digitial in the TV for processing. In some instances it can make a huge difference.

    I say it is supposed to because there are a few instances where component connections are considered better than DVI. Mostly it is a quality of the particular components. Some TVs look better with component than they do with DVI. Some output devices suffer from black crush (everything looks darker via DVI connection) etc. Also, some people seem to prefer the analog route simply because the all digital picture is too crisp (if there is such a thing).

    Also, it has nothing to do with compression. It is mearly allowing you to forgo the D-A-D conversions. Also, there is some benefit in long runs as the analog is more prone to interference.

    My suggestion is to go and get yourself a DVI to HDMI cable and try it out, but make sure the return policy is such that you can take it back. You may find that you like component better. (A good DVI to HDMI cable shouldn't run you much more than a DVI to DVI cable.)

    Also, I highly suggest you do a search for your particular TV model number and dvd player/cable/ATSC box model number on www.avsforum.com as I am sure people have discussed which connection method produces the best results on them over there.

    -Suntan
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  8. Originally Posted by masterpug
    dvi is video signal only whereas the other carries audio as well.

    if your tv is say 34inch or larger, then definitely get digital hooked up! i use comcast dvi over component because i tested both ways on my 34in widescreen jvc and it made a nice difference, mostly because since there is no compression with dvi you see everything as it was intended to be broadcast. mainly, the difference is tighter detail (say close up shot of someones face and background is always darker than it's supposed to be with anything other than dvi. for instance, watching baseball on espn hdtv vs. using component allows to see much more in the background/stadium shadows. it's simple really, why not go digital to digital if you have comcast and hd tv with digital inputs?
    You're describing a difference in the A/D converters, not the cabling.
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    Hey, thank you all for your time and replies, i've already learned a lot from you.

    Yoda313: Hi, good question and maybe that's my problem. I "thought" my digital cable box supported Dolby Digital as it has the digital optical connectors in the back. Last night I went through the menu and I didn't see any option for "DD" although there were some other audio options I experimented with, none of which got me DD 5.1. If someone from the HD department of Comcast every calls back I'll ask them if their boxes support DD 5.1. Would kinda stink that they have all the connectors but don't actually support the 5.1. Dolby Pro Logic sounds nice though fortunately.


    Junkmalle, thank you once again, o.k, so maybe I should try the cable then, huh? I'll just do exactly what you are saying and make sure I can return it because i'm sure the cost will be kind of steep. If I had to switch back and forth between the cables because the other cable stations don't work or have issues then I definitely wouldn't be willing to do that and would just keep the component cables hooked up but I guess as long as I can return them it's worth a shot to hope I don't have any problems, so i'll take your advice and do exactly that. Thank you again!

    masterpug: Thanks for the information. I actually have a 30' Widescreen T.V it's the Philips 30PW8402, and I really think the picture is amazing. Looks much nicer then any of the projection screens I've seen which are much bigger. I would rather have this over a 50' or 60' projection any day but that's just from what I saw as far as quality. Interesting you have comcast like me and saw a noticeable difference with a DVI TO HDMI cable over component. I guess like junkmalle said there's nothing wrong with trying it as long as I can return the cable. Thanks

    Suntan: Hi, and also thank you very much for the very detailed information. Well, you also agree that I should try the HDMI to DVI like everyone else so I'm going to do that. Thanks for the link to that AVS FORUM seems like that will be very helpful. That's really interesting info you gave and I guess reading at avs will hopefully tell me for my setup etc if component or DVI/HDMI cables work best. I've never seen a DVD player with a DVI or HDMI connector or connectors but i'm guessing they'd probably be really expensive. I would use the T.V more for HD CABLE so i'd like to have the best picture via the HD CABLE BOX to the T.V. Those connectors are so completely different from any of the RCA calbes or component cables i've used so just using them will be something new. Hopefully i'll be able to get the cables to try out this weekend as long they aren't really not suggested over at AVS, i'll come back and report my experience.

    Thanks again to everyone, have a nice weekend!
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  10. DVI dvd players started a few years ago with the V Inc players kind of buggy, but the output to a DVI enabled TV was great. Now a few different companies are starting to supply them.

    Right now I would give the nod to the Denon 1910 as I feel Denon makes good products and it uses the DCDi chip from Faroudja for 720p and 1080i upsampling so you can't go wrong there. Ultimate Electronics has it for $250 so I am sure you can find it lower online.

    My buddy just got it for his 50" DLP Samsung and is quite happy with it. Although he was looking for another DVD player, I don't know if it would be worth it if you already have a good Pro-scan DVD player.

    -Suntan
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    I work for comcast and put in a lot of hd boxes.
    I used to dvi to hdmi cord once and noticed something.
    After attempting to use the cord, i realized that dvi is video only while hdmi is audio and video (duh...). So the cord will only work if your audio is going somewhere else.. ie. a receiver.
    Anyway, after I took the dvi to hdmi cord out and hooked up the box via component video to the tv again, I could no longer get video output. It only output video on composite,s and rf. I tried another box and got picture at first, tried the dvi to hdmi cord agian and same results.
    its a motorola 6200
    Has anyone else noticed this?
    Also, on the DD issuse. Ive noticed this several times and have yet to find a rememdy. I Know the box supports DD, ive seen it do it in the past. However, all i can get the boxes to output anymore is PCM. Ive yet to get an answer from them either.
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  12. Dory,

    I guess I was being a little cynical in my first response! You might find this interesting:

    A similar issue exists with computer monitors. CRT based monitors are usually conneted via RGB cables (analog cables similar to component cables in televisions). When LCD panels first came out they accepted the same analog cables as input. But the pixels in an LCD panel are addressed individually by the hardware in the monitor -- in effect they are a digital device. So when using analog cables with those monitors the digital video from within the computer is converted to an analog signal, passed through the cables, then converted back to a digital form to be sent to the LCD cells. In this case it makes sense to use a digital cable so as to avoid the double D-A-D conversion and the DVI connector was born.

    Some LCD monitors have very good A-D converters built in and can display both the analog an digital inputs with the same quality. But many manufacturers assume you'll be using a digital cable and have very poor A-D converters -- resulting in much worse image quality (fuzzy picture, smeared colors, etc) when using analog cables.

    Since your HDTV is CRT based it is an analog device. There is no conversion of the analog inputs to a digital form inside the TV. It's a question of which signal path contains the better components. It's worth trying the digital cable to see if it gives a better picture. It seems likely that a $2000 HDTV probably has a better D-A converter than a $200 cable box but you never know!

    Let us know what you find...
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    lazylazyjoe, hmmm, interesting, you work for Comcast so i'd figure you'd be able to answer some of these questions for sure but what you are saying kind of corresponds to the information I got from a comcast technician earlier today.

    Here's what happened, when I didn't hear back from someone at the end of the day like I was told, I called comcast, spoke to a lady who told me the HD dept NO LONGER EXISTS! Now this was completely opposite to what I was told earlier which was that you can have them call you, but there's no telling when they'll get back to you from the HD department. I was told then that the HD dept used to have a direct number but that was ceased a couple of months ago. So as you can see two completely different stories.

    Do you happen to know if the HD department does or doesn't exist currently with COMCAST? One of the reps has no clue what's going on.

    Now as far as the DVI/HDMI connections, listen to this. The rep checked with someone who apparently "knows" about HD and came back and said some of the Motorola HD boxes are set for DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 while others are NOT! I said well gee, can I pick up a box that is "SET" for DD 5.1 SINCE I'd be paying the same as someone else who has the same box but DOES have their box set for Dolby Digital. She then said, oh no, there's no way to tell which boxes are set for DD and which ones are not. lol

    Is that just crappy or what? So this may answer why you have seen some boxes that are DD capable while others are not. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Another thing this lady said was that the DVI OUTPUT on the Cable box is NOT ACTIVE! She said that's for the 'FUTURE'.....I had to laugh again. I said when in the future, and of course she had no answer. So that pretty much shot down me purchasing the DVI/HDMI cable. But now you are saying that you hooked this cable up before to the boxes, so i'm wondering if this lady knew what she was talking about or the person who was giving her this info knew what they were talking about.

    Can you confirm or deny any of this?



    junkmalle, Hi again, more interesting stuff you wrote but I guess this all depends now on whether or not the box will accept DVI/HDMI among other things. I guess we'll have to wait and see what lazylazyjoe says and go from there. Comcast is something else, huh? lol
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    5.1 Audio:

    Ua gotta use a coax or optical link from the HDTV or HDTV tunner to your reciever. That is how I do it. I have a Samsung 26" wide screen and love the integreation of analog and digital station tuning. I wished I went for the 30". NO projection TV can match a real CRT. Plasma TVs have a poor reliability reputation so IF I were to spring for a big flat pannel ti would be an LCD type, proven reliable display tech.

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    arealgijoe, thank you for the suggestion, however, I've already tried using an Optical cable as mentioned above and it doesn't work. I put the digital optical cable in the back of the Cable Box and into my Receiver and i'm getting "PCM" audio, not Dolby Digital. Several programs were supposed to be in Dolby Digital 5.1, but were in PCM. I figured I mine as well just use RCA cables as to my ears the RCA cables with "DOLBY PRO LOGIC" on my TUNER sound better then PCM. I don't know much about PCM so I don't know if there would be any benefit in using PCM with the optical cable over Dolby Prologic with the RCA audio cables.

    Too bad I can't get DD 5.1 though, i'd love to hear that.
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  16. Dory,

    PCM is raw uncompressed audio. The same as audio CD (although I don't know if it's 48 or 44.1 KHz) and WAV files. It should sound better than an analog stereo pair...
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    ty again Junkmalle. I guess i'll try and reconnect the optical cable and take off the RCA cables. I just think it's funny how comcast says "some" of their boxes have the dolby digital 5.1 open and others don't, and of course they have no clue which boxes have it open and which ones don't. lol
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  18. i know nothing about HDtv, but I would assume that anything that has optical outs would be DD or DTS capable, else theres no reason for the optical out.
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    hi again,
    The hd boxes that Ive been putting in 6200 or 6208 (dvr) have their dvi option enabled. Its been enabled for almost 8 months now. So you should have no problem with that. So, as long as you have a seperate place for your audio to go, like a receiver, you should be fine. I have yet to see if the component video stays active after using a dvi to hdmi cord again. No word on that. I only tried it at the one house and have yet to have an opprtunity to try it agian. If you get a chance, let me know.
    Interesting to note... I did see a mitsubishi today that had a spot for dvi audio on its hdmi input...
    You might also want to consider just using the component video cables for now. The difference between using a digital transmission versus an analog transmission is not substantial. Especially since most programing is not hd. If youre looking for a better picture, tinker with your color settings (properly). Also, the component video output does not scale non-hd picture very well. If you also take an s video out from the box and watch that for only nonhd, your picture will look better on those channels.
    As far as an hd department, I don't know if they have one. If there is one, I have yet to find them. For my company (contracted from comcast) everyone just calls me with hd questions. However,, most of the people who I talk to from the call center usually are clueless unless they're reading off a script.
    As far as the dd issue, there is no user selectable option to allow dd or dts output. So, I have no idea how it is some boxes are "open" for dd and some are not. I only get to test this when I hook a receiver up to a box, which isnt that often. However, lately, I have not seen any that will output dd.
    You can change output for HD channels to 1080i,720p, or 480i and change the res of non-hd to 480i or 480p. Turn the box off by pressing power them immediately (within 1 second) press the "menu" button. Thats about the only way to change settings on the box.
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  20. When you use a DVI to HDMI you don't have audio, but most TVs take this situation into account and if you hook up the audio to one of the component audios it will use it, so you can get digital video via DVI/HDMI and audio through the component on the TV.

    I think when you try the DVI to HDMI it's locked onto it, maybe reset the TV, if you're going back to component.
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    Hi there I am new to this HDMI and DVI thing, although I have done some reading on this site.... please help. Here is my situation, my new Sony DVD player has a HDMI output and my Sony last year model HD TV has only components and DVI Input. So I was wondering if I can use a HDMI to HDMI cable AND then a DVI to HDMI converter to connect to this cable and get both Video and Audio that way. Or should I just get a plain HDMI to DVI cable going straight from my DVD to TV instead? Thank You!!
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  22. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lazylazyjoe
    hi again,
    The hd boxes that Ive been putting in 6200 or 6208 (dvr) ... You can change output for HD channels to 1080i,720p, or 480i and change the res of non-hd to 480i or 480p. Turn the box off by pressing power them immediately (within 1 second) press the "menu" button. Thats about the only way to change settings on the box.
    Thank you for that ... I was wondering why the "main menu" had no such adjustments. I should note that I have COMCAST cable and that my cable box is a MOTOROLA DCT6412 III. The box says it has a dual tuner DVR (which I love) and that it is HDTV and DOLBY DIGITAL compatable.

    Anyways ... when I go to this "secret" menu I have the following options:

    1.) TV TYPE ... this can be set to "16x9" or "4:3 PAN & SCAN" or "4:3 LETTERBOX"

    2.) YPbPr OUTPUT ... this can be set to "1080i" or "720p" or "480p" or "480i"

    3.) 4:3 OVERRIDE ... this can be set to "OFF" or "480p" or "480i" or "STRETCH"

    The default on mine was "16x9" for TV TYPE and I do indeed have a 16x9 HDTV ... "1080i" is the default for YPbPr OUTPUT ... "OFF" is the default for 4:3 OVERRIDE

    Now don't laugh but I only have this MOTOROLA cable boxed hooked up via composite video to my Pioneer DVR-531H-s (a stand alone DVD recorder) then the Pioneer DVR-531H-s is hooked up to the HDTV via component video. I guess I need a 2nd set of component video cables so I can hook the MOTOROLA up directly to the HDTV ... otherwise I am not really getting HDTV am I LOL

    I am curious what that option "4:3 OVERRIDE" really does and what is the best option for that.

    I couldn't figure out (until now) that I needed to use component out on the MOTOROLA to get HDTV output but that seems to be the case ... nor until now could I find a menu that even mentioned HDTV resolutions so again thanks for that tip on getting to that "secret" menu.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    I bought an HDTV more for higher quality DVD playback now (along with future HD DVD or Blue Ray use) than watching HDTV but once I get the cable box hooked up correctly it will be nice watching (more) stuff in HDTV rather than the (very) few channels I get via my rabbit ears. So far I've had my HDTV for about 4 weeks now and I love it!
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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