Widescreen 16:9 recording on JVC MH30

[DVWannaB]

JVC users,

I need some help please. I have tried unsuccessfully for some time now to record in 16:9 aspect ratio. I made sure I went into the setup menu and indicated to record in 16:9 Auto & even selected 16:9 fixed. I usually record to the hard drive, edit and then burn to DVD-R disk. The recorder is fed video via HDTV source (1920x1080 or 1080x720) via S-video. The HDTV source is downsampled to the recorder to 720x480i.

When I burn and play back it is in 4:3 full screen and on widescreen I have black on left & right. When I open the disk contents in IFOedit, it says 4:3. What can I do get the JVC recorder to burn 16:9? Thanks.

[gshelley61]

You HDTV source would have to send a "squeezed" anamorphic image to the recorder. You do this by setting the HDTV source to 16:9 output (for a widescreen TV).

I don't think you can set the 16:9 recording flag when using the analog video inputs on the JVC DVD recorder (it does this automatically when using the DV input, however). You would have to rip the recorded disc to your computer, converting the DVD video files to a single MPG, then re-save the file using ReStream to change the flag from 4:3 to 16:9. Then, re-author the new MPG file to a new DVD.

The Toshiba RD-XS34 does allow you to set the aspect ratio flag when recording analog video sources (so does the Sony RDR-HX900).

[DVWannaB]

Ok, I get it Gshel. Its the inputs causing the prob. My HD receiver does have a Firewire out and the manual says for pass through to D-VHS, so I am not sure the JVC has the capability to act as a D-VHS, but I will try tonight when I get home to see if it works or not.

Yes, that is what I end up doing. Rip and re-encode to 16:9 and then open in IFOEdit to set the 16:9 flag to automatic. I'll try the Restream method, as it sounds faster.

Thanks.

[DVWannaB]

[quote="DVWannaB"] My HD receiver does have a Firewire out and the manual says for pass through to D-VHS, so I am not sure the JVC has the capability to act as a D-VHS, but I will try tonight when I get home to see if it works or not.
quote]

Tried it. Firewire from HDTV receiver to JVC DR-MH30 DV input. No workie. The JVC DV input cannot emmulate that of a DVHS which is a requirement for the HDTV receiver

[gshelley61]

It can't record a HD stream.... only 720x480 DV. No DVD recorder can do that.

[FulciLives]

Yes, that is what I end up doing. Rip and re-encode to 16:9 and then open in IFOEdit to set the 16:9 flag to automatic. I'll try the Restream method, as it sounds faster.

You have to have your HD box output SDTV but with a 16x9 aspect ratio. Sounds like it is currently outputting SDTV with a 4:3 ratio.

So you want it to output SDTV but 16x9 ... the DVD recorder will record 16x9 but with a 4:3 flag. This will play back fine on a WS TV but not on a 4:3 TV where the flag must be changed from 4:3 to 16x9. No re-encoding needs to be done. Just re-authoring.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[DVWannaB]

Yes, that is what I end up doing. Rip and re-encode to 16:9 and then open in IFOEdit to set the 16:9 flag to automatic. I'll try the Restream method, as it sounds faster.

You have to have your HD box output SDTV but with a 16x9 aspect ratio. Sounds like it is currently outputting SDTV with a 4:3 ratio.

So you want it to output SDTV but 16x9 ... the DVD recorder will record 16x9 but with a 4:3 flag. This will play back fine on a WS TV but not on a 4:3 TV where the flag must be changed from 4:3 to 16x9. No re-encoding needs to be done. Just re-authoring.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Yeah, thats the way I have the receiver set-up. I have an MIT MDP-200 and it has 2 switches inthe rear that you have to set to the correct setting or it will not send a signal through your analog output. I then set the aspect ratio on the receiver to 16:9 full screen.

Yes, it does play fine on widescreen TV, but the 4:3 TVs is the hang-up. I'll try the Rip & ReStream, then author method probably tonight after watching the World Series in HiDef

[FulciLives]

Yes, it does play fine on widescreen TV, but the 4:3 TVs is the hang-up. I'll try the Rip & ReStream, then author method probably tonight after watching the World Series in HiDef

Another option is to re-author to a set of DVD video files (IFO, BUP, VOB) and then use IFOEdit to change the IFO properties from 4:3 to 16:9

Then create an image file and burn.

That's how I use to do it "back in the day" when I used a DVD Authoring program that always set the output as 4:3 even if the VIDEO was flagged properly as 16:9

ReStream may be easier though I myself have never had to use it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[aprest]

It is very simple to change the flag to 16:9 using Ifo.Edit

You don't need to reauthor the DVD. Just copy the DVD files to your hard drive, change the file properties to "a" from "ra", edit the ifo files using Ifo.Edit and burn a new DVD.

Use this link for instructions as to how to edit the ifo files.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3783431&highlight=ifoedit#post3783431
Look for instrctions posted in this thread about half way down the page.

[sullen]

Okay, I did a search and found this thread. It is the closest thing I can find to my issue without going through about 20 pages of topics because this encompassess 3 different things. I am using the JVC DR-M10. No matter how I set up the source or the recorder, I get hard recorded bars for the 16x9 but the overall picture aspect ration is 4x3. So to get the correct aspect ratio I have to watch the DVD on my 16x9 TV I have to set the TV display to 4x3 ratio. The 4x3 TV display has the bars on the top and bottom. What do I need to do to get this to display full screen on my 16x9 TV? The width is okay for DVD at 720 but my height is messed up at around 360 when I cut off the bars from the 4x3 recording. Should I run this through AviSynth, chop the bars, resize to 720x480, and then encode with TMPGEnc with the 16x9 flag? This is really ruining my day.

[vhelp]

I am thinking that these dvd recorders are still dumb-dumbs at this
time. I mean..

I think that they are just recording the 16x9 widescreen sources as a
4:3 AR Letterboxed. Much like takinga Commercial DVD movie, and playing
it inside you set-top dvd player, and recording *that* source.

And, even though your source is a 16x9 widescreen ratio, the dvd recorder
is recording it, but inside a 4:3 AR, and consiquentialy letterboxing it.

Course, I could be wrong

But, to test this *theory* out, you could do three tests..

A - setup your DVD player to output in widescreen [4:3]
B - setup your DVD player to output in Letterbox widescreen [4:3]
C - setup your DVD player to output in 16:9 Enhanced widescreen [Anamorphic]

the reason why I mentioned THREE, is because that is what all dvd player
feature. You have to setup your dvd player inside it's SETUP SCREEN.

Then, using your dvd recorder, proceed to record a given test dvd disk
and use each of the three modes.

Then, view the results for proper Widescreen and Aspect Ratio results.

-vhelp 3742

[sullen]

I know it won't work. My HDTV cable box can output, in analog, 4x3 pan and scan, 4x3 letterboxed, and 16x9. The last two are the same through the JVC recorder and the first will stretch to the full screen in the correct ratio, but crops the sides just like playing a pan and scan DVD on a 4x3 TV. The issue really is that the JVC letterboxes everything pretty much, just like you said. At this point I will probably have to look at an encoding solution or just live with the screwed up picture. A shame because I recorded/am recording a Pixies Concert off of INHD2. I also tried the above settings into my Fusion HDTV card and the same thing happens. Without the HDTV cable box squishing the 16x9 to fill the 4x3 box, I don't think it will ever work at the recording phase.

[gshelley61]

Unfortunately, some cable boxes send a letterboxed 4:3 image through their s-video/composite outputs even when the box is set to 16:9 output. The anamorphic "squeezed" image only comes through the component YPbPr output with these particular cable boxes.

It sounds like that is your situation here. You would need a DVD recorder with a component video input to overcome this... the Sony RDR-HX900 and the RDR-HX715 are among the very few units that have a component video input. Of course, they accept a 480i component video signal only, so you would have to set your cable box to that format for it to work.

[DVWannaB]

Gosh, I forgot all about this thread I started back in Oct2005. Should have reported my results. Thanks for ressurecting it.

Gshelley61 and others were right, ReStream did the trick perfectly. Just to point out my particular situation again for clarification.

I have an OTA HD antenna running into a HD receiver (MIT MDP-200) and connected to my JVC recorder via SVideo cables. The HD feed was in widescreen format (16:9). The HD receiver has the ability to output 16:9 (full screen or Letterbox) and 4:3 (letterbox). I used 16:9 full screen to maintain the aspect ratio. The JVC through svideo only does 4:3 and the displays the image as squished vertically.

ReStream has the ability to restore 16:9 AR and plays properly on widescreen and non-widescreen TVs (letterbox).

sullen is correct in response to vhelp. It will not work as I've tried that. For example, I use a HD receiver output via Svideo to a Toshiba SX-52 that is connect to HDTV via HDMI. I tesed HBO-HD (widescreen). I set the recorder to do 16:9. In every case I kept getting letterboxed widescreen recording. I liked the fact that I got 16:9, but the black bars on top and bottom is puzzling.

I will test an RDR-HX715 with component in and see what happens.

[sullen]

The problem I have with the issue is that the letterboxed black bars are in the recording which is not a flag issue. My width is correct at 720, but the height is messed up if I should just eliminate the black bars. Changing the flag alone to 16x9 just makes the vertical more squished.

I checked on the two Sony recorders, ouch, not in my budget right now. Especially for just recording 1 or 2 shows a year. Most of the stuff shown on INHD is also available on commercial DVDs, but not this Pixies show.

Darn that broadcast flag!

[DVWannaB]

I tried the Sony RDR-HX715 last night. No workie. I set my HD receiver to standard definition (SD) and fed the Sony with component cables. First off, not sure which is at fault here, but the Sony would not pick up and display any video with component cables. I switched to svideo and got a signal. I am pretty sure the Sony is the guilty party here. Because with the receiver set a SD I connected it directly to the TV and there was video.

With svideo, it is no different than what I reported above with the Toshiba. I see no benefits of the Sony over the Toshiba, so the Sony goes back tomorrow.

[sullen]

When you say you set the HD box to SD I am assuming 480i output? I was thinking about checking with Circuit City because they used to have a very liberal return policy and trying this out myself. If it isn't going to work then there is no need to waste the time.

[gshelley61]

I tried the Sony RDR-HX715 last night. No workie. I set my HD receiver to standard definition (SD) and fed the Sony with component cables. First off, not sure which is at fault here, but the Sony would not pick up and display any video with component cables. I switched to svideo and got a signal. I am pretty sure the Sony is the guilty party here. Because with the receiver set a SD I connected it directly to the TV and there was video.

With svideo, it is no different than what I reported above with the Toshiba. I see no benefits of the Sony over the Toshiba, so the Sony goes back tomorrow.

With the RDR-HX900, the #1 video input selection had to be changed in the recorder's setup menu from composite/s-video to component in order to use the component video input... isn't that the case with the new 715? If it is, and you didn't change that video input, you would not get a signal.

[DVWannaB]

Yes, I sure did. I could hear the audio, but it was not picking up the video. I am not certain of the exact reason why. I dont know if its some broadcast flag thing or my HD receiver does not send a proper signal via component in SD mode. Maybe I should call Sony helpdesk, but I was so peed-off with another over-priced Sony product that I could just explode

Anyway, I'm still stuck with capping widescreen with black borders on top and bottom and then re-encoding using Avisynth. BTW, that is a tough setup using avisynth. I kept screwing up the encode. If anyone needs to do drastic resizing like I have cropping 64 and 72 from top and bottom, here is the proper avisynth script:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\RemoveGrain_v10pre1.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\eedi2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\undot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\tomsmocomp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\tdeint.dll")

mpeg2source("f:\1workfolder\mich88\mpcbowl1.d2v")

TDeint(mode=1,type=1)
crop(4,64,0,-72)
LanczosResize(720,480)
converttoyuy2()
separatefields().selectevery(4,0,3).weave()

Hope that helps anyone that is stuck like I was.