DVD-R DL vs. DVD+R DL. I can't find DVD-R DL blanks

[KeepItSimple]

Hello.
I'm having a hard time finding DVD-R DL (Dual Layer) discs. DVD+R DL (Double Layer) discs are everywhere. Wouldn't DVD-R DL discs be the best to use for maximum compatibility? The manual for my Pioneer DVR-110D burner says it writes DVD-R DL up to 8X. Why is Dual Layer pretty much ignored?
Thanks!

Oh BTW I put this in the Mac forum because I care about this issue as it relates to Macs and it's softwares, not PCs.

[e404pnf]

Wouldn't DVD-R DL discs be the best to use for maximum compatibility?

No. DVD+R DL is still far more widely supported that -R DL. In part because it was available first. Given time -R DL may catch up (That said, may folk still have trouble playing any DL disks on stand alone players). Also, if you check the Media section, you'll note that Verbatim DVD+R DL are pretty much the only reliable DL media.

[KeepItSimple]

many folk still have trouble playing any DL disks on stand alone players

Oh great . Which ones play them well and which ones don't -- Newer? Older? Brands?

[miksu]

Why bother with -R DL? Currently, write speeds are slower, it's rather new technology with poor support. Disks cost more than +R DL, and you gain nothing (if compared to +R DL). +R DL has been around two years, and works quite well. My ND-2500 booktypes +R DL disks to DVD-ROM, they work flawlessly with my Samsung SV-DVD1E set top, which is about three years old. I have both Verbatim and Imation +R DL disks.

[chikanakan]

Never use -R DL unless you are backing up data only. If you are doing video, always use DVD+R DL. -R DL was an afterthought by Pioneer who got bet badly to dual layer technology. -R DL just doesn't work well. Layer breaks can not be set correctly for example.

[KeepItSimple]

OK you convinced me I'll get some +R DL discs.
Which players play them well and which ones don't -- Newer? Older? Brands? I have mostly Panasonic DVD players.

[chikanakan]

My Panasonic Player works fine with DVD+R DL as long as the book-type is DVD-ROM. If your drive burns the disc with a book-type of DVD+R DL, then compatibility is very low, maybe 20%.

The Pioneer 110 burns with a book type of DVD-ROM, so you should be fine.

[KeepItSimple]

Huh? Wha? Book-type? Can you explain more about that? I've never heard of it.
Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

-R DL was an afterthought by Pioneer who got bet badly to dual layer technology. -R DL just doesn't work well. Layer breaks can not be set correctly for example.

None of that is true.

- DVD-R DL took longer in R&D. Not at all an "afterthought". They researched DL recordable tech for years.

- DVD-R DL works fine, though DVD-Video players may not want to see them. So far, data on "which is better" is inconclusive. What can be said is that DVD+R DL is generally pretty decent, player permitting. Given the choice, use the one that is proven to work, unless you like to test.

- Layer breaks are user or software error, not disc type error.

[whitejremiah]

as for book-type....basically it's something thats set by your recording software to "trick" the dvd player into thinking that it's a disc that it isnt.....helps some compatability wise...........it's used a lot with single layer dvd+r discs...basically it writes some data to the disc that tells the player "this is a dvdrom, not a dvd+r" it does the same thing with dual layer discs, too.....

[KeepItSimple]

DVD-R DL works fine, though DVD-Video players may not want to see them. So far, data on "which is better" is inconclusive. What can be said is that DVD+R DL is generally pretty decent, player permitting. Given the choice, use the one that is proven to work, unless you like to test.
- Layer breaks are user or software error, not disc type error.

I just thought that since DVD-R was more compatible with players that DVD-R DL would also be and the logical type for me to use with my new Pioneer 110D burner since I like to keep things simple. I've been working with DVD-R, with DVD+R being that "other" format that just complicates matters. All this -R +R nonsense is so dumb and confuses folks!
Anyway DVD+R DL is what they have in the stores here so I guess I'll get those.
Any mo input would be greatly appreciated.

[whitejremiah]

get verbatim, nothing else is remotely worth wasting your money on....

[KeepItSimple]

as for book-type....basically it's something thats set by your recording software to "trick" the dvd player into thinking that it's a disc that it isnt.....helps some compatability wise...........it's used a lot with single layer dvd+r discs...basically it writes some data to the disc that tells the player "this is a dvdrom, not a dvd+r" it does the same thing with dual layer discs, too.....

Does DVD-R single layer use that book-type scheme also? What about DVD-R DL?

[chikanakan]

as for book-type....basically it's something thats set by your recording software to "trick" the dvd player into thinking that it's a disc that it isnt.....helps some compatability wise...........it's used a lot with single layer dvd+r discs...basically it writes some data to the disc that tells the player "this is a dvdrom, not a dvd+r" it does the same thing with dual layer discs, too.....

DVD-R DL require that Layer 0 be completely written before burning Layer 1. Therefore, the layer break must be set at the very outer edge of the disc.

If you have ripped a DVD and the layer break is a round 3.9GB for example, when burning that to DVD-R DL, the layer break must be moved from 3.9GB to 4.3GB. This can only be done if there is a valid ECC boundary and the layer break can be set to non-seamless.

In most cases, the layer break must be moved, layer 0 has to be fill and then layer 1 written. This causes lots of problems when DVD that are close to 8GB. In fact, it is possible to have a DVD with no valid ECC boundary for a layer break even within 1GB of data allowing for only 7GB to be written (just and example).

DVD+R DL are much better in this regard. The layer break still must be on an ECC boundary and non-seamless, but it can also be placed anywhere on the disc as long as both layer 0 and layer 1 are of equal size. This is much more flexible and allows more control over the layer break.

DVD-R DL also have major issues when using in DVD-VR mode early on though that may be fixed by now.

DVD-R DL may have been researched for years, but Pioneer scrambled to keep up with DVD+R DL after they announced and released DVD+R DL far in advance of DVD-R DL. Even Pioneer shipped DVD+R DL drives before DVD-R DL. Even when it was finally shipped, it was still not ready for prime time.

Face it, the DVD-R DL spec is a lacking in many many ways.