Stuttering KVCD !?!?!?!

[benson881]

Here all,
I have managed to convert an avi to KVCD using a template In TMPGEnc 2.5. The picture and audio are both spot on. The trouble is though readily during the first 5-10mins of the film it stops for a sec or so and then carries on (About every 5secs). This eventually doesn't happen as much as the film plays on (still every 5 mins or so). Its annoying as hell and i wondered if its the way i've encoded it?, Or more to do with the burning process? Discs used are Sony 700mb/80min. In virtualdub it says its a 25.000fps. So I encoded in PAL KVCD and burnt it with NERO PAL Non-standard VCD. Any thoughts would be great cheers jim.

[lordsmurf]

Yes, it's the way you encoded it. Quit messing around with that XVCD stuff (which is what KVCD is, nothing special). This stuff is buggy, non-standard, and causes nothing but headaches.

I'm guessing you're attempting to play this in a DVD player? In that case, use something compliant, either a good standard VCD or a good SVCD/CVD spec. Or better yet, make a DVD.

[benson881]

Cheers for replying so quick. Yes I am trying to play it on my dvd player. The reason I'm using KVCD is caus it makes the end MPEG smaller, or is the shite?

[lordsmurf]

It's shit.

You may want to take a peak at Sefy's SeVCD or SxVCD, if you can find his templates still. I can't.

The best option would be a normal VCD, CVD or SVCD, and then use as many discs as needed. If you hate having too many discs, then it's time you upgrade to DVD technology. It's the same price as CD technology, both the drives and blank discs.

[benson881]

Tried normal VCD option and guess what it doesnt stutter. Cheers Mate!!! Just wonder if the file size is gonna differ that my from KVCD. I still have similar bitrate/ audio rate rates.

[Shibblet]

I'm afraid I am going to have to jump in on this subject here.

KVCD & KDVD compression schemes are JUST FINE.

Lord smurf is going to try and tell you that the picture quality is less than the original DVD, and in that aspect he'd be right. However the whole situation behind KVCD & KDVD is to make the picture "Acceptable" and put more backups on to one disc. If Lord Smurf would bother looking through any of the KVCD forums, he would know that most people prefer a better picture, instead of smaller file. The standards are for up to 6 hours at DVD quality. Most of the people at KVCD.net are going for around 4 hours.

At that point, your movie quality is next to perfect.

A 7-8GB VOB file can easily be reduced to a 2-3GB Vob file with audio, and hardly any picture loss.

If you do not find anything less that complete DVD quality acceptable, either you have the best television ever created, eyes like an eagle, or are thinking too technically about the picture. For that matter, why don't we just rip all of our backups to DV, and just use a Hard drive for each movie? Because DVD is compressed also...

Now, the next argument is for DVD Shrink. DVD Shrink does the exact same thing as KDVD, it re-encodes the VOB and reduces picture quality. KDVD however works on the KDVD Matrix, wich allows for better compression.

KDVD allows you to fit the entire "Return of the King Extended DVD Edition" on one DVD with Audio, and a picture that you'd never know was downsampled.

KVCD is an "acceptable" formats utilizing a better compression matrix for allowing you to fit entire movies on to on to one CD. VCD's standard will only allow for 74 minutes regardless of aspect ratio of the movie.

So when Lord Smurf here tells you "It's Shit", you need to understand that he doesn't know what he's talking about. As a matter of fact, Lord Smurf should have told you that downsampling from DVD to VCD is where you will lose most of the quality.

And in conclusion, Lord Smurf, before you go advising people on whats good, and whats not... Learn what you're talking about, before your ass turns blue. Oh, too late.

[adam]

Its entirely subjective. You can't say they're shit anymore than you can say they result in hardly any quality loss.

What can be said for certain is that the KVCD template will not produce compliant video. If this is a problem with your hardware then you can still use the custom matrix...or you can just opt for one of the accepted standard formats.

The KDVD template is compliant as far as I know, and of course the Q matrix is always safe to use, but since the original poster is using cdr media this doesn't really help him any.

Since a standard VCD (hopefully it was actually compliant) still had this problem the first place to look is your media. Try playing it on your pc instead. If it stutters than there is something wrong with how it was encoded. If it plays fine than your dvd player just isn't reading the disc properly. Try using a different cdr brand and look up your player in the dvd player compatibility chart on this site to see what others have had luck with.

Once you get the problem sorted out just use whichever format, or non-standard deriviation, you prefer. But if you intend on making alot of such discs you are best off trying everything out first before committing to any one. Personally I'd suggest SVCD for shorter movies (90-100 mins) and CVD for anything longer. Most things will fit on 2 discs and anything longer than ~120mins will require 3.

If you are serious about using KVCDs and KDVDs, and such, than you really need to ask your questions at kvcd.net instead. You will find much more support for these formats there.

[Shadowmistress]

Kvcd blah blah blah....

Animatron, is that you?

Here we go again.

[jimmalenko]

If Lord Smurf would bother looking through any of the KVCD forums ...

I'd love to look through the forums there, but I'm afraid I'm not prepared to pay a $2.99 access fee, just on principle.

If you do not find anything less that complete DVD quality acceptable, either you have the best television ever created, eyes like an eagle, or are thinking too technically about the picture.

If you'd ever played with a projector, you'd know that even some longer commercial DVDs can appear slightly pixelated due to the bitrate used in production being too "cutting edge". These same DVDs shrunk at 90% with DVDShrink look just horrible on a projector. They look fine on Joe Average's 27" TV mind you.

So when Lord Smurf here tells you "It's Shit", you need to understand that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

... but he's entitled to his opinion

And in conclusion, Lord Smurf, before you go advising people on whats good, and whats not... Learn what you're talking about, before your ass turns blue. Oh, too late.

So how is that non-standard GOP length going with KDVD ?

If it works for you, all power to you. But if not, no need to slam anyone for giving an opinion. Lordsmurf has a lot more cred here than you. Why ? Because he's earnt it. Disagree by all means, but show some sense of logic as opposed to a smear campaign, eh ?

[Shibblet]

If it works for you, all power to you. But if not, no need to slam anyone for giving an opinion.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more... if you don't understand something, don't slam it. Wouldn't you say Lord Smurf? Here, wait, let me quote Lord Smurf first.

"It's Shit"

Lordsmurf has a lot more cred here than you. Why ? Because he's earnt it. Disagree by all means, but show some sense of logic as opposed to a smear campaign, eh ?

Now did you not read my post? I thought I covered the basis pretty well there, as well as adding in my own counter arguments. Before you go defending Lord Smurf take a look at what was written, because obviously you didn't read the above posts.

And Finally...

If you'd ever played with a projector, you'd know that even some longer commercial DVDs can appear slightly pixelated due to the bitrate used in production being too "cutting edge". These same DVDs shrunk at 90% with DVDShrink look just horrible on a projector. They look fine on Joe Average's 27" TV mind you.

DVD Was orginally designed for CRT Televisions with an interlaced signal in mind. It was slightly modified to produce progressive images at a later date. 480p The DVD image was never supposed to look any clearer than a CRT (Projection or tube) Television.

I happen to work at a very reputable Home Theater store, we have all kinds of projectors. Even one of the best out there, gives a pixelated image. You're not supposed to look at it up close. Its a projector, look at it from across the room I guarantee you, if you sit down on the couch and watch the movie, you won't see pictures at your 10-15 foot distance. If you're sitting closer than that, you don't need a projector. There are arguments for LCD, RP LCD, DLP, and Plasma.

So, however reputable his opinion is, maybe he should explain... I know about Televisions and DVD's in general, I would give an argument. I wouldn't just say "It's shit"

[jimmalenko]

Before you go defending Lord Smurf take a look at what was written, because obviously you didn't read the above posts.

spoken like a true smear-campaignist ....


Yes, I did give you some respect and read your post. Pity you didn't return the favour.


And yes, I have dabbled with KVCD and KDVD in the past, only to find that they have never worked with either of my two DVD players, and as such, XVID has been a more preferable option for me. I understand KVCD and KDVD, but I still think it's shit because it doesn't work for me. Where to from there ?

[Shibblet]

I did actually read the post, and did some edits... I accidentally hit submit instead of preview the first time.

[jimmalenko]

I disagree with you on just about everything you've written in this thread.


You still haven't found an answer for the longer-than-dvd-standard GOP length in KDVDs though ?


meh ... <shrug>

[Shadowmistress]

Not to defend Lordsmurf or anything (I'm really indifferent to all this) but I think Kvcd is shit as well. I've tried it in it's many incarnations and that's the opinion I'm sticking to.

The quant tables are bogus for any movies with a decent amount of light and motion. About the only thing kvcd is better for than the standard quant tables out there such as in tmpgenc, is for encoding a newscast taking place in the dark. Anything else looks like total crap.

And don't bother screaming that I'm uninformed, I've broken down and written my own quant tables. Do a post search on me with kvcd in the box and you'll see all my technical arguements.


Remember that while LS is attacking a product, you are attacking a person. I'm pretty sure what you're doing is against forum AUP and I for one will not be surprised to see you go bye-bye if you keep it up.

[Shibblet]

Well never argue with an idiot I guess, they bring you down to their level, and the beat you with experience.

[Shadowmistress]

I like that. I've never heard it before. I guess you'd know best.

[Noahtuck]

Well never argue with an idiot I guess, they bring you down to their level, and the beat you with experience.

Well, that's one reason keeping me from jumping in and arguing with you

[lordsmurf]

For those that missed it, the original poster solved his problem long ago:

Tried normal VCD option and guess what it doesnt stutter. Cheers Mate!!! Just wonder if the file size is gonna differ that my from KVCD. I still have similar bitrate/ audio rate rates.

Enough of the KVCD/KDVD "is next to perfect" propaganda/spam. Newbies may find the concept of cramming lots of data onto one disc appealing at first, but not experienced users. If you insist on using it, go pay kwag his $3 and have at it, that's why he has the site. I'm just glad I don't have to watch it.