Hauppauge WinTV-PRV 150 - How to get I frame only Captures?

[FulciLives]

I just got the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150

The documentation says it only goes up to 12,000kbps but I've heard other people say it can go up to 15,000kbps and I have been able to make it do that in my preferred CBR mode.

However I can't figure out how to make it do "I" frame only captures.

I want to capture CBR 15,000kbps with only "I" frames as this is to be a "master" that will then be re-encoded to MPEG-2 DVD spec using a software MPEG-2 encoder. I use Cinema Craft Encoder.

Does anyone know?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SHS]

GraphEdit or Custom profile under some 3rdparty tools I'm petty sure WinTV2000 will not allow for 15,000kbps.

[The_Doman]

I'm petty sure WinTV2000 will not allow for 15,000kbps.

The WINTV2000 seems to accept a bitrate of 15,000kbps
When recording with such a profile the encoder filter also shows the 15,000kbps bitrate correctly.

[SHS]

Well they may have change it but a long time ago it didn't work that high when check the bitrate with MPEG2VCR info tool.

But any case John you could try making a custom profile see here http://www.shspvr.com/howto/custom_mpeg_pvr2.html

[FulciLives]

Well they may have change it but a long time ago it didn't work that high when check the bitrate with MPEG2VCR info tool.

But any case John you could try making a custom profile see here http://www.shspvr.com/howto/custom_mpeg_pvr2.html

That is a nice link but the "problem" there is while it will accept a CBR bitrate of 15,000kbps it will only allow you to adjust the GOP to one of two values ... either 6 or 15 but not 1.

I'm thinking this might require a registry edit ... perhaps using the "Hauppauge Tweaker" which I got from the Cask-of-Amontillado website.

But I've tried that and it doesn't seem "to stick" when I record with WinTV2000 ... you did mention 3rd party software ... what choices are there?

I tried BeyondTV but that thing totally mucked up my computer (and internet connection) until I uninstalled it blah

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SHS]

GOP values can only be 6 or 15 far I know of there no I-frame only mode john.
SageTV and read this
http://sage.tv/2_papers/HPquality.txt

[FulciLives]

I had the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 (a USB 2 external hardware MPEG encoder) for about 1 week. I was able to "hack" into the registry and get it to do a CBR of 15,000kbps with only "I" frames. Unfortunately it really is not made for scheduled recordings. The included software only allowed one scheduled recording at a time. As a result I returned it (bought it at Circuit City).

So I decided to try the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 (again from Circuit City) and so far the quality seems to be about the same overall but I miss the ability to do "I" frame only captures.

Now I am thinking of returning the Hauppauge WinTV-PRV 150 (as I did with the ADS Instant DVD 2.0) and instead get the ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB2 which is an external USB 2 device with the same "guts" of the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 but it includes a TV tuner input and more importantly works with TitanTV (which I like) as well as BeyondTV (though my computer did not like that program at all).

BTW I am using the software and drivers that came on the CD-ROM with my Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 ... the CD says version 2.3B and looking up the driver details with Device Manager shows a driver version of 2.0.30.23074 which is dated 03/15/2005 ... I bring this up because some people have said that they have had audio issues with their WinTV-PVR 150 ... mostly "too loud" as I understand it ... but so far no such issues of any kind with my WinTV-PVR 150.

The only real issue I had was that my 2nd PCI slot (just after the video card's PCI x16 Express slot whatever you call it) wouldn't work ... locked up the computer ... changed it to the next PCI slot down and it worked A-OK.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

GOP values can only be 6 or 15 far I know of there no I-frame only mode john.
SageTV and read this
http://sage.tv/2_papers/HPquality.txt

I just downloaded a demo of SageTV so I will try it but so far I like using TitanTV and the Hauppauge WinTv Scheduler is very easy to program myself manually if needed (in fact I often "adjust" the TitanTV recordings so they start and end 3 minutes early/late so I don't miss anything).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Lester Burnham]

However I can't figure out how to make it do "I" frame only captures.

I want to capture CBR 15,000kbps with only "I" frames as this is to be a "master" that will then be re-encoded to MPEG-2 DVD spec using a software MPEG-2 encoder. I use Cinema Craft Encoder.

Does anyone know?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I'm still a little puzzled as to why you only want I frame captures - or why you'd choose to re-encode?

[The_Doman]

That is a nice link but the "problem" there is while it will accept a CBR bitrate of 15,000kbps it will only allow you to adjust the GOP to one of two values ... either 6 or 15 but not 1.

I'm thinking this might require a registry edit ...

I tried adjusting the WINTV2000 register profiles and was able to record with a GOP value of 3.
Lower values did not seem to work (yet), or need other tweaks.

I bring this up because some people have said that they have had audio issues with their WinTV-PVR 150 ... mostly "too loud" as I understand it ... but so far no such issues of any kind with my WinTV-PVR 150.

The "too loud audio" problem was (is) only occuring with the external audio-line input. (not properly fixed yet)
There were no real problems with audio of the built in tuner.

[Lester Burnham]

I bring this up because some people have said that they have had audio issues with their WinTV-PVR 150 ... mostly "too loud" as I understand it ... but so far no such issues of any kind with my WinTV-PVR 150.

The "too loud audio" problem was (is) only occuring with the external audio-line input. (not properly fixed yet)
There were no real problems with audio of the built in tuner.

I had this problem with my PVR USB2, and I only ever really record from the external inputs (ie S-Video and audio L & R). There were plenty of tips posted for registry values (or tweaks to wintvcap.ini (as I only record using wintvcap)).

The only thing that actually made a difference for me is the following registry value:-

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Conexant\Parameters\ivac15\DrvUSB]
"PreScale_Scart_EXT"=dword:00001000

Now the DrvUSB thing will be specific to the PVR USB2, but there seems to be quite a degree of carry-over between the PCI PVR cards and the USB ones, so presumably there's an equivalent in the PCI registry structure.

[SHS]

That only work on the older PVR Lester Burnham.
John in SageTV you can setup padding when you first pick a show to record just reclick on recording option and you see the option or if you want you can do in the Favorites Manger as well if after recording episode.

[reboot]

Open regedit.
Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\G lobespan\Parameters\ivac15\Driver
Find GOPSize.
Change it from f03 to 103.
You now have a GOP size of 1.
This forces each GOP to be an I frame.
I found that changing it to 503 works extremely well, producing an I frame, 2 B frames, and 2 P frames, without dramatically increasing filesize, and a GOP of 1 is a waste.

[SHS]

reboot that only work under the 250, 350 not the 150, 500 it not in the same place.

In fact he have add first

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\hcwPP2\DriverData]
"HcwSaveEncoderSettings"=dword:00000001

Reboot

From there he need go to
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Class\{4d36e96c-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0nnn\Driver\

[reboot]

Grrrr, figures that doesn't work with 150's.
Thanks for clearing it up.

Do you mean the setting HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Class\{4d36e96c-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0nnn\DriverData under "GOPNumberOfPictures", and change that to 1 (or 5 or whatever)?

[Iamnotsam]

Open regedit.
Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\G lobespan\Parameters\ivac15\Driver
Find GOPSize.
Change it from f03 to 103.
You now have a GOP size of 1.
This forces each GOP to be an I frame.
I found that changing it to 503 works extremely well, producing an I frame, 2 B frames, and 2 P frames, without dramatically increasing filesize, and a GOP of 1 is a waste.

This trick doesn't work on my 250. When I open the captured files in VirtualDubMod and click on the "file information", they still have P frames, even though I have already changed the GOP setting from f03 to 103.

I am also looking for a way to capture I frame only mpeg with my PVR 250, and any help will be appreciated.

My 250 is a rev 3 version with the CX23416 chip.

[Lester Burnham]

I am also looking for a way to capture I frame only mpeg with my PVR 250, and any help will be appreciated.

I'm still not understanding why anybody would want to capture to mpeg, and make the encoding just include I frames.

[FulciLives]

I am also looking for a way to capture I frame only mpeg with my PVR 250, and any help will be appreciated.

I'm still not understanding why anybody would want to capture to mpeg, and make the encoding just include I frames.

Because I want to get the best capture quality possible so I can re-encode using AviSynth filters ... plus I can get a true multi-pass MPEG-2 encode with CCE.

When the source is not clean that is the way to do it.

This has been discussed in other threads, i.e., capture 15,000 CBR with I frames only ... then apply filters and re-encode.

Think of it as capturing to HuffyUV or PicVideo MJPEG in AVI then doing a MPEG-2 software encode.

Same idea.

The best capture you can get from a Hardware MPEG-2 encoder card is a 15,000 CBR I frame only capture.

Prior to buying the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 I had bought and tested the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which is a USB 2 external Hardware MPEG-2 capture device. It was rather easy to get 15,000 CBR I frame only captures but the scheduled recording option was extremely limited.

However I just watched a DVD of a movie I recorded from IFC and it looks SO good I think I want it back (the ADS Instant DVD 2.0)

I did a 15,000 CBR I frame only capture ... used AviSynth for Decomb (did an IVTC) and used Convolution3D and the resulting progressive DVD looks super duper.

Turns out the Hauppauge has sound issues (it isn't on the TV tuner input which I've been using but on the regular line-in audio input) and the "extreme white" issue (mostly white things being overly bright and loosing detail) I have come to the conclusion that the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 is a POS.

It's going back.

I think I am going to do what I should have done a long time ago ... get a DataVideo DAC-100 ... although I might give the ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB a try first ... it is the same as the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 but lacks outputs (no big deal) but includes a TV tuner input PLUS it works with TitanTV which should solve the scheduling issue.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Lester Burnham]

I am also looking for a way to capture I frame only mpeg with my PVR 250, and any help will be appreciated.

I'm still not understanding why anybody would want to capture to mpeg, and make the encoding just include I frames.

Because I want to get the best capture quality possible so I can re-encode using AviSynth filters ... plus I can get a true multi-pass MPEG-2 encode with CCE.

When the source is not clean that is the way to do it.

This has been discussed in other threads, i.e., capture 15,000 CBR with I frames only ... then apply filters and re-encode.

Think of it as capturing to HuffyUV or PicVideo MJPEG in AVI then doing a MPEG-2 software encode.

Same idea.

The best capture you can get from a Hardware MPEG-2 encoder card is a 15,000 CBR I frame only capture.

Prior to buying the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 I had bought and tested the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which is a USB 2 external Hardware MPEG-2 capture device. It was rather easy to get 15,000 CBR I frame only captures but the scheduled recording option was extremely limited.

However I just watched a DVD of a movie I recorded from IFC and it looks SO good I think I want it back (the ADS Instant DVD 2.0)

I did a 15,000 CBR I frame only capture ... used AviSynth for Decomb (did an IVTC) and used Convolution3D and the resulting progressive DVD looks super duper.

Turns out the Hauppauge has sound issues (it isn't on the TV tuner input which I've been using but on the regular line-in audio input) and the "extreme white" issue (mostly white things being overly bright and loosing detail) I have come to the conclusion that the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 is a POS.

It's going back.

I think I am going to do what I should have done a long time ago ... get a DataVideo DAC-100 ... although I might give the ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB a try first ... it is the same as the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 but lacks outputs (no big deal) but includes a TV tuner input PLUS it works with TitanTV which should solve the scheduling issue.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Then it rather sounds like capturing using an hardware mpeg capture device isn't really what you want. Why not capture using some higher-quality, or perhaps (almost) lossless capture, then do your quality mpeg encoding in software.

It would seem a better approach, than trying to get a relatively low-end capture / PVR device to do something that perhaps it's not best suited. These PVR devices are really for capturing to PC, and likely authoring the results to DVD.

If nothing else, wouldn't you get better by capturing with a DV camera (using line-ins), then using DV / firewire to your PC, then doing your mpeg encoding in software?

[FulciLives]

Then it rather sounds like capturing using an hardware mpeg capture device isn't really what you want. Why not capture using some higher-quality, or perhaps (almost) lossless capture, then do your quality mpeg encoding in software.

It would seem a better approach, than trying to get a relatively low-end capture / PVR device to do something that perhaps it's not best suited. These PVR devices are really for capturing to PC, and likely authoring the results to DVD.

If nothing else, wouldn't you get better by capturing with a DV camera (using line-ins), then using DV / firewire to your PC, then doing your mpeg encoding in software?

I've used a cheap PCI TV tuner type card and I used to get really good results capturing to PicVideo MJPEG or HuffyUV but this method is open to A/V sync issues and though I finally licked that on my old computer my new computer just can't seem to keep perfect sync.

I then considered the DV route using the DataVideo DAC-100 (a clone of the Canopus ADVC-100) but the 4:1:1 NTSC issue scared me away although recently I have come to realize that this very well might not be such a big deal.

I then read that 15,000kbps CBR "I" Frame only capture was the way to go and it does look really good that way but the Hauppauge card is garbage ... the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 was very good ... but with limited scheduling options (one area where the Hauppauge "shines" but what good is scheduling options when the resulting video and possibly the audio are shit).

As I said I think I'm just going to try the DataVideo DAC-100 ... I understand you can schedule it using ScenalyzerLive.

Only problem with the DataVideo DAC-100 is that every capture needs to be converted to MPEG-2 whereas with a MPEG-2 capture card ... you can capture direct to a desired target bitrate. It's not like you want a "master" 15,000kbps CBR "I" Frame only capture for EVERY capture.

So in reality ... I am thinking that a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD (Like the Pioneer 500/600 series) is the way to go for TV time shifting and that the DataVideo DAC-100 is good for those special "I want to save it and have it look really freakin' good" projects.

The ADS Instant DVD 2.0 is a great alternative to a stand alone DVD recorder but limited to scheduling although as I said before the very similiar but TitanTV controllable ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB might be the solution.

So I am torn between getting:

1.) DataVideo DAC-100
2.) ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB
3.) Pioneer DVD recorder (probably the 531 model at WalMart)

My guess is I will end up with 1 + 2 or 1 + 3 although right now, money wise, I can only afford one device. Which one I will be buying first I have no clue as of the moment LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Lester Burnham]

I then considered the DV route using the DataVideo DAC-100 (a clone of the Canopus ADVC-100) but the 4:1:1 NTSC issue scared me away although recently I have come to realize that this very well might not be such a big deal.

I think that's the sort of thing I'd be considering - or the DV route, if my needs were as yours.

I then read that 15,000kbps CBR "I" Frame only capture was the way to go and it does look really good that way but the Hauppauge card is garbage ... the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 was very good ... but with limited scheduling options (one area where the Hauppauge "shines" but what good is scheduling options when the resulting video and possibly the audio are shit).

Well I've found that with some tinkering, and experimenting, the captures using my Hauppauge PVR USB2 are really very pleasing. I don't tend to do anything scheduled, though, nor do I use Hauppauge's software for capturing - I use wintvcap, with settings I've tweaked and evolved to suit my needs.

Only problem with the DataVideo DAC-100 is that every capture needs to be converted to MPEG-2 whereas with a MPEG-2 capture card ... you can capture direct to a desired target bitrate. It's not like you want a "master" 15,000kbps CBR "I" Frame only capture for EVERY capture.

Yebbut if you're going to re-encode anyways...

So in reality ... I am thinking that a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in HDD (Like the Pioneer 500/600 series) is the way to go for TV time shifting and that the DataVideo DAC-100 is good for those special "I want to save it and have it look really freakin' good" projects.

Funny you should mention that - I now have a standalone DVD recorder - and I'll likely use that in the main for captures that I want to author to DVD. However, if I want a bit more quality, I'll use my PVR USB2 - that's good enough on the quality front, bearing in mind this is stuff captured from digital satellite.

The ADS Instant DVD 2.0 is a great alternative to a stand alone DVD recorder but limited to scheduling although as I said before the very similiar but TitanTV controllable ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB might be the solution.

So I am torn between getting:

1.) DataVideo DAC-100
2.) ADS Instant TV Deluxe USB
3.) Pioneer DVD recorder (probably the 531 model at WalMart)

My guess is I will end up with 1 + 2 or 1 + 3 although right now, money wise, I can only afford one device. Which one I will be buying first I have no clue as of the moment LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

My needs are offloading things I want to keep from my Sky+ box (UK digital satellite PVR - twin tuners, with 160G HD for recording). In the main, for stuff I want to keep, I think I'll go to the DVD recorder, then to PC for minor editing (top & tail, or removing adverts). For things where I want better quality - or where the runtime is not ideally suited to a DVD recorder, I'll use the PVR USB2.

For DV stuff, I have a firewire card, but at the moment it's more convenient to go DV to DVD recorder.