DVD recorders typically lose 5 frames at every vob split

[slacker]

I've been working with two dvd recorders for about a week now, experimenting with vhs to dvd transfers on a dvd recorder versus doing it the old fashioned way, i.e. vhs connected to a pc capture card.

On two separate recorders I am experiencing frame loss on every vob split, averaging 5 frames per split when using MPEG Video Wizard to view
frames.

Is anyone else aware of this issue? Do all dvd recorders exhibit the same problem? Can anyone assure me that this is particular to my recorders, a Panasonic ES30VS and a JVC MV5S, both new models?

Can anyone recommend a dvd recorder that does NOT do this?

[trhouse]

Slacker,

I would do the following test. Your computer probably has a dvd player program like PowerDVD. These programs allow you to step frame by frame. Go to the position of the VOB split and step frame by frame. Do you find any missing?

[The_Doman]

How do you import those VOB files?
You can't import them as seperate VOB's without losing frames.

Try to join the VOB segments to one big VOB file and open that with MPEG Video Wizard or other editor.

[slacker]

I watched the video frame by frame (surrounding the 1st split) with WinDVD Player and I it is very difficult to see the loss. However, clearly in Mpeg Video Wizard I can identify two distorted frames and 1 missing frame surrounding the first split.

Either Mpeg Video Wizard is picking up something which isn't there (huh?), missing something, or WinDVD Player is simply reconciling the split somehow. Weird.

Is there another frame editor I can use to confirm this one way or another?

This may take awhile.

[trhouse]

I think there are no missing frames. What you are seeing with the software is probably related to this,

"I Frame
An I frame is encoded as a single image, with no reference to any past or future frames. Often video editing programs can only cut MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 encoded video on an I frame since B frames and P frames depend on other frames for encoding information."

[EasyWriter]

Slacker,

In my previous experience with MVW, it exibited the same issue at vob join points. I assumed that the problem would have been fixed with a later release...

The_Doman is correct in advising you to join the vob files prior to placement in MVW (use Simple File Joiner or some other program). You shouldn't have the problem after that.

[trhouse]

You may simply be encountering what many already know, which is that mpegs are not like TV or VHS frames. Not every frame contains complete information which is what you may be seeing as distorted frames. The reason this is not seen with a dvd player software is that that software is intended to carry the necessary I frame information into the other frames to complete them. So you are right about Windvd "reconciling" the split. That is what it is designed to do.

[lordsmurf]

Slacker, no.

You may have that problem if you try to copy VOBs and edit that way. Wrong way to edit.

If you extract the disc in IFO mode, there is no such loss.

Your issue is related to the software, you're not supposed to just copy a VOB and merge.

[slacker]

I am giving Simple File Joiner a go as I write...

My original process was...

1. Bring up DVD Decrypter and rip in File mode to my PC hard drive.
2. Then bring up MPEG Video Wizard and join those vobs on the time.

That is when I saw the problem.

lordsmurf,

Do you think that ripping in IFO mode will be more successful?

[trhouse]

Perhaps these two threads might be of value.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=224833

or

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269692

[slacker]

Yahoo!!!

Simple File Joiner worked (At least on the first vob split)! Downside is it is painfully slow. What's up with that?

BTW,

In the early 80s we joined files at the dos command line as below...
copy filename.ext + filename.ext > newfilename.ext
Always worked!
(I'm sure you old pros already knew that.)

I will try ripping with DVD Decrypter in IFO mode as well, and I'll try TmpGEnc DVD Author as well since I'm probably going to purchase that for re-authoring anyway.

One more step in the process sewn up (fingers crossed).
Thank you all (for now).

[vhelp]

@ slacker,

I think that mpeg wiz may be the problem. But, I would suggest
trying something else, just to be sure. Cause I think it may
be something in the way mpeg wiz "merges" vobs in its process.

Try just merging two vobs for this test.

The Steps:

* open vob 1, and vob 2 inside dvd2avi
* save as a d2v project
* now, create a psuedo avi file using VFAPIConv.exe name it "testvob.avi"
* then, open this avi file inside vdubMOD and see if it is missing
any frames.

In using the above procedures (though laborous) if you find it missing
the any frames in the same areas you found previously in mpeg wiz,
then its safe to say that *your* dvd recorder is at fault and causing
missing frames during the ending vobs.

If, you find no missing frames, then it is a safe bet that *your*
dvd recorder is fine, but that mpeg wiz is causing the missing frames,
as you discovered. And, the remedy is easy. Stop using mpeg wiz

Good luck,
-vhelp 3444

[gshelley61]

I use Simple File Joiner for extracting, joining and renaming DVD recorder VOB's to a single MPG file prior to loading into MPEG Video Wizard for editing. Mainly because it's so simple and works every time, no problems at all. It takes some time for the files to be saved from the disc to the hard drive (no different than using Smart Ripper or DVD Decrypter in that regard).

[junkmalle]

In the early 80s we joined files at the dos command line as below...
copy filename.ext + filename.ext > newfilename.ext
Always worked!
(I'm sure you old pros already knew that.)

Close. For binary files it's:

copy /b source1.ext+source2.ext output.ext

You can still do it from the Windows command line interpreter.

[slacker]

junkmalle,

One up on me!

gShelley61,

Simple File Joiner works well. So does lordsmurf's recommendation to use DVD Decrypter in IFO and simply set it to splitting = None. Works fine as well.