Using filters with Virtual Dub

[alonzo]

I am new to the area of VHS to DVD conversion and am looking for a bit of advice.
I am using Virtual Dub to convert some VHS tapes to DVD and am totally lost with regard to what filters (if any) to use.
The tapes are quite good quality but so far I have only been able to create DVD's that are very blurry. I don't expect DVD quality but surely it should be possible to get the same level of quality as the VHS tape itself?
If I could get that level of quality I would be happy. The problem I have is that I have to capture, encode and burn over and over again in order to test out the DVD's I have created.
This is very time-consuming and frustrating. I have searched this forum and installed and tried out some of the filters recomended but they didn't improve the quality.
I would really like is an answer from someone who knows the correct filters to get rid of the blur from my DVD's and sharpen the picture (if any such filters exist).
Thank you very much to anyone who replies.

[redwudz]

Generally VD filters take something away, not add it. You can use sharpen filters, but I doubt you will see much improvement. If you had noise, some filters can mask it. None will really give you something you don't have, such as good resolution.

If you want to experiment, why not make a short video clip of a minute or two and use that for trial. Much faster.

Further, you would need to detail to us how the VHS was captured, what devices, settings, software was used. It sounds like the problem is in the capture if the source is good.

[alonzo]

Generally VD filters take something away, not add it. You can use sharpen filters, but I doubt you will see much improvement.
If you want to experiment, why not make a short video clip of a minute or two and use that for trial. Much faster.

I tried experimenting making a few short video clips and I have tried sharpen filters. As you said, they didn't improve anything.

Further, you would need to detail to us how the VHS was captured, what devices, settings, software was used. It sounds like the problem is in the capture if the source is good.

I am using a laptop, capturing using a PCMCIA card (it has an S-VHS input). I am using VirtualDub to capture, there are a lot of settings, which ones do you want to know about?

[redwudz]

I'm no expert on capture through VD, I use a ADVC-100, but I'm sure someone here is. Probably useful info:

Name and model of your capture card.
Capturing SVHS or composite?
Resolution of capture, probably PAL? 720x576 or 352x576 1/2 D1?
Capture codec?

Is the VD video blurry or is that after encoding?

MPEG encoder used? What resolution and bitrate?

There's probably a lot more, but you 'should' be able to get as good resolution as the original VHS tape.

[alonzo]

I'm no expert on capture through VD, I use a ADVC-100, but I'm sure someone here is. Probably useful info:

Name and model of your capture card.

It goes into the PCMCIA slot of the laptop: it's a FlyDVB-T DUO CardBus

Capturing SVHS or composite?

SVHS

Resolution of capture, probably PAL? 720x576 or 352x576 1/2 D1?

PAL, think it's 320x240

Capture codec?

HuffyUv

Is the VD video blurry or is that after encoding?

It's blurry before I encode it.

MPEG encoder used? What resolution and bitrate?

I use TMPGENc,bitrate resolution 320x240,bitrate 5000kbits per second
It's blurry before I encode it.

There's probably a lot more, but you 'should' be able to get as good resolution as the original VHS tape.

There is a lot more, maybe the equipment I have is just not good enough.

[redwudz]

That does help. The 320x240 seems too low, though I see that is a default for VD. If you can capture at the 352x576 1/2 D1 at least, I think you would see a big improvement. A lower resolution of 352 x 288, which is VCD quality would also be an improvement.

You might also try some different capture programs. iuVCR and VirtualVCR are two to look into. VD is not easy to set up for capture, IMO. There is a guide for VD capture, https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=130&howtoselect=9;50#130 that may help, if you haven't seen it.

[alonzo]

That does help. The 320x240 seems too low, though I see that is a default for VD. If you can capture at the 352x576 1/2 D1 at least, I think you would see a big improvement. A lower resolution of 352 x 288, which is VCD quality would also be an improvement.

I can only do 320x240 with the PCMCIA card.

You might also try some different capture programs. iuVCR and VirtualVCR are two to look into. VD is not easy to set up for capture, IMO. There is a guide for VD capture, https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=130&howtoselect=9;50#130 that may help, if you haven't seen it.

I tried using VirtualVCR but couldn't capture any sound with it. I think I'll stick with VirtualDub for capture, I don't want to go trying out yet another new program.
Since I last posted I changed a few settings on TMPGENc and am getting better quality encodes as a result. I am only guessing when I change settings as I don't really know what effect they will have.
The link you sent me (https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=130&howtoselect=9;50#130) only tells about capturing with VirtualDub. I will do a search for a guide on TMPGENc.
Thank you for your replies.

[junkmalle]

I can only do 320x240 with the PCMCIA card.

That's probably the source of your blurriness.

[tigerman8u]

here's a post I saw for Tmpgenc settings. Don't know if it will help you http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96747

[redwudz]

That seems to be a decent capture card. Have you tried the supplied software? The card should be able to capture at a higher resolution. You should go to their forums and ask how.

If it can capture DVBs, it should do better than 320x240. I think that is the problem. The other resolutions I stated are much better for DVD. Even the lowly VCD resolution is better.

I don't understand VD capture that well as I don't use it, but you really need a higher res to get any quality. I don't think TMPGEnc is your problem, though you can do some fine tuning there and get a little improvement.

[slacker]

I have been perusing this web site for over a year now and I believe the consensus among the pros is to capture at the highest possible rate (EVEN FOR VHS) and then scale back later during final encoding if you need to extra disc space. I have done this with my own tapes and they came out great! Give it a try!

[alonzo]

Sorry, I made a mistake about the resolution, I can actually capture at higher than 320x240. Thanks for the link tigerman8u, I'll try what it says.

I have been perusing this web site for over a year now and I believe the consensus among the pros is to capture at the highest possible rate (EVEN FOR VHS) and then scale back later during final encoding if you need to extra disc space.

That's certainly true. I was using the Huffyuv codec but switched to Pinnacle PIC Video as it reduces the size even more with no loss of quality.
I am actually getting good quality on my DVD's now but I want to make them as good as they possibly can be.

[SatStorm]

If you don't find a way to capture AT LEAST 352 x 576 for PAL, don't expect your projects look like VHS....

Did you change the colourspace on Virtualdub? Use Yuv and anot RGB24

Try 704 x 576 if you can for capture, or 352 x 576 (not the best thing in the world, but far - far better 320 x 240 - which is also a NTSC Vertical framesize, not used on DVDs)

[pepegot1]

Forget VD. Use the JVC-DR-10S DVD recorder. It has filters that really work. I have had grainy movies come out well cleaned using thsi recorder.

[alonzo]

Forget VD. Use the JVC-DR-10S DVD recorder. It has filters that really work. I have had grainy movies come out well cleaned using thsi recorder.

Nice idea pepegot1, but unfortunatley my finances don't extend that far!

If you don't find a way to capture AT LEAST 352 x 576 for PAL, don't expect your projects look like VHS....

Did you change the colourspace on Virtualdub? Use Yuv and anot RGB24

Try 704 x 576 if you can for capture, or 352 x 576 (not the best thing in the world, but far - far better 320 x 240 - which is also a NTSC Vertical framesize, not used on DVDs)

Whenever I try to capture at 704 x 576 with VirtualDub, I get a blizzard of dropped frames. I presume this is because the laptop is not powerful enough to keep up. It only really works well at 320x288 which is of course far too low.
However, when I use Nero Vision Express, at 720x576 there are no dropped frames.

[Nelson37]

Start at Square One. If your initial VD captures are blurry, do NOT bother to proceed any further and encode to MPG. It will NOT get better, only worse. You must improve your capture quality.

At that res, it is probably doing a Blend DeInterlace which would account for your blurriness. If full-res causes dropped frames (there is an entire Sticky on this subject, so I will not touch on it) then cap at the highest res you can without dropping frames. Also suggest capping at something that is already DVD-Compliant, which 320x240 is not, especially in PAL land.

Filters, IMO, are a dead-end. The "improvement" is usually only noticeable when compared to non-filtered digital files. If compared to the original source, the quality loss is usually obvious.

[alonzo]

Filters, IMO, are a dead-end. The "improvement" is usually only noticeable when compared to non-filtered digital files. If compared to the original source, the quality loss is usually obvious.

I absolutley agree with you there, I've used a load of filters and noticed no improvement whatsoever.
I can't capture at a high resolution with VirtualDub (352 x 576 is the highest I can manage) but I can with Nero Vision Express, presumably because Nero's captures are mpeg format and VirtualDub's are avis's.
When I try to capture in AVI format with Nero it captures OK but I can't use Huffyuv or Pinnacle codecs with it, the capture stops if I do (error message says "no signal detected"). I think I can't use any codecs with it at all (apart from a DivX one which puts a logo on the screen, which I don't want).
Also, when I process mpegs or avi's (captured with Nero) with TMPGEnc, the resulting mpeg's when burnt to disc are shaky.
I have pretty much given up on VirtualDub and TMPGEnc now and am capturing and converting this way:
1.Capturing with Nero Vision Express. It gives me the highest resolution and no dropped frames. The resulting captures are already in mpeg-2 format so I don't have to use TMPGEnc which saves time.
2. I then use Nero to burn this mpeg to a folder on the hard drive (producing the VOB and IFO files)
3. The resulting VOB and IFO files's are too big so I use DVD Shrink on the folder to reduce the size. It reduces the VOB and IFO files's by 30%. (A 30 second capture from Nero Vision Express is about 27 MB's. DVD Shrink reduces it to 19 MB's ).
By my reckoning I should be able to fit 2 hours on a disc using this method. The quality is actually pretty good from the clips I have tried.