DV - AVI - DVD: quality sucks!

[taboo]

Hello People,

I need your help to decide where to post and what to do about this.

With my DV Camcorder (Panasonic PV-GS120) I shot 4 Mini DV tapes.

Then using Windows Movie Maker transferred (recorded) them to HD. Each tape went to single AVI format movie in about 13.5 GB. I guess it was raw AVI format.

Each of these AVIs contained several scenes. I had to cut them, edit sound (replace dirty words with beeps) and add date stamp before placing on DVD.

Since it was AVIs I decided to use VirtualDub.

I tried to play with first scene on one of these AVI files. I cut it off main AVI file. Split into video and audio. Edit audio with CoolEdit. Then join back together. I was able even compress it in size from 980MB to 320MB with DivX codec.

But when I made burning test on DVD I was NOT really satisfied with the result. It was not THAT bad, but WORSE than when I tried to preview it on DV tape through camcorder on TV.

What did I do wrong?
Is there any alternative way to do that?

Thank you in advance.
taboo

[canadateck]

Your Talking about "Divx" and "DVD" what is your goal with this Video? To play on a DVD player in DVD format or Make a Divx Video to Play on a Divx Player?

[taboo]

My goal is to play it in DVD player in DVD format, of course

[canadateck]

Ok so I would Do all my edits then save the file Out to AVI then encode to mpg2 with Tmpgenc unless you have another encoder , Because Windows Movie Maker does not save as Mpg2.

Then Use Ulead to author or another authoring program.

[canadateck]

If you need clarification let me know.

Take Alook at the Guides.

[taboo]

thanks canadateck,

But what settings for AVI should I use?
What AVI it should be for Tmpgenc?

I think something decreasing quality probably when I do it in VirtualDub...

[canadateck]

You really dont need to use VirtualDub , When you are done editing the Video in Wmm Save the file out to DV-Avi then Use Tmpgenc to Convert to Mpg2 there is a trial you can Use.

For the Setting there is Templates BUT also many Guides , to tell you how to get the best Quality. You may also want to convert the Audio to AC3 to save space for Better Looking Video/Higher Bitrate.

[taboo]

Thanks again,

I have full version of Tmpgenc Plus. Its not a problem.
The thing is that I used VirtualDub for quite some time and it did nice job for me in the past. And then if I will not have any success with VirtualDub I will use WMM

I also found some cool guides here like this for example
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

...probably what you are talking about.

So its definitely necessary to transfer them AVIs to MPG-2, right?

[canadateck]

So its definitely necessary to transfer them AVIs to MPG-2, right?

Yes..
To Author and Burn to a DVD they need to be Mpg2.

[taboo]

Yes..
To Author and Burn to a DVD they need to be Mpg2.

So I guess thats why quality of my DVD sucks after all

Ok, I will try to play with Tmpgenc Plus and will let you know how is it going.

Thanks again,
taboo

[tmh]

Just to save you the time .... I think you'll find that the DV-AVI output from WMM2 is type 1 and TMPGenc prefers Type 2. So after making the WMM2 DV-AVI you'll need to convert it to type 2. I use DVdate for this. Quick, easy and lossless, so far as i can tell.

Then TMPGenc will like it better.

[canadateck]

@thm thanks for that, forgot about that.

Here another tool..

https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=DV_Type_1_to_DV_Type_2_Converter

[taboo]

What I do now is using Tmpgenc Plus I am encoding AVI file into m2v+wav.
So then later I will be able to burn it on DVD.

Am I right?

[taboo]

Question is:

In order to cut scene off that huge raw AVI file using VirtualDub (so that later I will be able to encode it with Tmpgenc) what codec should I use for better quality?

[midnightsun]

no codec. If you cut scenes and compress to a lossy codec you're degrading quality. So it's either a lossless codec (huffyuv for example...but be warned...HUGE files) or frameserving.

Now as for what framerving is and how it's done, look around this site.

You could alternatively use avisynth which is extremely easy to use if it's just trimming you're going to do.

[bugster]

no codec. If you cut scenes and compress to a lossy codec you're degrading quality. So it's either a lossless codec (huffyuv for example...but be warned...HUGE files) or frameserving.

Now as for what framerving is and how it's done, look around this site.

You could alternatively use avisynth which is extremely easy to use if it's just trimming you're going to do.

You can cut stuff out with virtualdub and save using 'direct stream copy'. This way no encoding takes place with ANY codec and is an alternative if you are not comfortable with frameserving, tho frameserving does save time and disk space.

[taboo]

Thanks bugster and midnightsun,

I gotta tell ya, this 'direct stream copy' is really rocks and exactly what I need! It just cut off scene instantly without losing any quality. I even was able to merge it with WAV file which I edited with Cool Edit.

Now, what I have to do with that AVI?

I know I have to encode it into MPG-2 with TMPGEnc. But what settings to choose? Should I encode it directly into .mpg (System (Video+Audio)) which I prefer or should I use something else?

Please help me out,
taboo

[bugster]

Use a bitrate calculator to determine the correct bitrate to use. You can use the one here . I would suggest for best quality use 2-pass VBR, motion search precision normal or high.

[taboo]

thanks bugster,

I found solution so far.
I am encoding it with TMPGEnc as System (Video+Audio)

Video: MPEG-2 720x480 29.97fps CBR 8000bkps
Audio: Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps

And I love results!

PS.Regarding 2-pass VBR, when I am choosing it Bitrate becames grayish (unclickable) so I guess I gotta change it in Settings. What numbers should I set for them? And what will it give me if I change CBR to VBR?

1. Average Bitrate - ?
2. Maximum Bitrate - ?
3. Minimum Bitrate - ?
4. Max Pas - ?
5. P picture spoilage - ?
6. P picture spoilage - ?

[bugster]

2-pas VBR.

Max 8000kbps
Min 500kbps
Avg according to bitrate calculator

[GeorgeW]

imho, based on your sourve video being 4 miniDV tapes, 2-pass VBR won't produce any better results than your 8000kbps CBR encode -- it will only take longer.

A 2-pass VBR would make more sense when you are forced to use lower bitrates (to get a longer video onto a DVD5 disc).

Also, be careful using high bitrates on dvd discs -- the higher bitrates can "choke" a DVD Player (even though you fall within the dvd specs). For dv25 source, you could probably drop to 6-7mbps and still get excellent quality -- and at the same time using a lower bitrate for better compatibility with dvd players.

[MpegEncoder]

thanks bugster,

I found solution so far.
I am encoding it with TMPGEnc as System (Video+Audio)

Video: MPEG-2 720x480 29.97fps CBR 8000bkps
Audio: Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps

And I love results!

PS.Regarding 2-pass VBR, when I am choosing it Bitrate becames grayish (unclickable) so I guess I gotta change it in Settings. What numbers should I set for them? And what will it give me if I change CBR to VBR?

1. Average Bitrate - ?
2. Maximum Bitrate - ?
3. Minimum Bitrate - ?
4. Max Pas - ?
5. P picture spoilage - ?
6. P picture spoilage - ?

Layer-2 is a compatibility problem. The NTSC spec does not support layer-2 (though many players will work with it). Convert to AC-3 with ffmpeg.

Also, 384kbps audio is WAY overkill try 224k or even 192k. You won't be able to tell the difference.

[Nilfennasion]

As a one-time reviewer, I can tell you that you CAN notice the difference between higher bitrates with AC3 2.0 soundtracks. Some European music videos use Dolby 2.0 448kbs tracks, and the difference compared to the 192kbs or 224kbs is amazing. They also retain a lot more of the LPCM 2.0 source.

[MpegEncoder]

As a one-time reviewer, I can tell you that you CAN notice the difference between higher bitrates with AC3 2.0 soundtracks. Some European music videos use Dolby 2.0 448kbs tracks, and the difference compared to the 192kbs or 224kbs is amazing. They also retain a lot more of the LPCM 2.0 source.

His source is not a European music video, it's a home movie. For professional stuff, yes. For home movies you'll never know the difference (except for the extra space that it takes).

[bugster]

imho, based on your sourve video being 4 miniDV tapes, 2-pass VBR won't produce any better results than your 8000kbps CBR encode -- it will only take longer.

Sort of agree, only need to useVBR if the length of movie you want on one disc pushes the required bitrate lower than about 8000kbs.

Remember, home movies shot with a a handheld camera eat up bitrate due to camera shake beeing seen as motion by the encoder, so it helps to give the encoder as much flexibility as you can in terms of bitrate allocation. No point wasting bitrate on stills that could be used on motion!

[taboo]

Thanks a lot GeorgeW, bugster, MpegEncoder and Nilfennasion!

I will cease AUDIO to 192 kbps (I agree 384 kbps is too much, especially for home movies, as 128 kbps already can be considered as CD quality) and I will probably try to cease VIDEO to 6-7 mbps, but with CBR

I will try to do that all and will tell you how is it going!

Thanks again all!