PC Crashing during DVD capture

[jopassmore]

Hi

I have recently bought a new video capture card (Leadtek Winfast TV2000 Deluxe) with the intention of being able to capture TV programmes in DVD format for playing on my DVD player. I upgraded from an older Hauppauge card which captured MPEG 1 in mono.

I am having an intermittent problem now with the PC crashing during capture. It seems to only happen when it is trying to capture in DVD quality which leads me to think that it might just be too much for the CPU to cope with. Having said this I have a 2700 mhz pc with 256 mb of ram so in theory it should cope fine.

I have checked all my hardware for a compatibility problem, I have also scanned my hard disk and run a virus check, so there are no problems there. I have also downloaded the latest PVR and drivers from the leadtek site and installed these.

Somebody has suggested that I might be better with a card with it's own mpeg chip on board, but I was hoping this card would do what it was supposed to do as I don't want to spend out any more money.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jo

[equinox137]

Check your CPU fan...You may be overheating as a result of an old/bad fan

[MikeV]

Try doubling the ram you have. Before anyone can give you a good answer we would need the following information(fill out the computer details).
1. What operating system are you running
2. How many hard drives do you have
3. What is the hard drive speed(5400, 7200,etc)
4. Are you trying to run anything else while capturing
And several more questions I can't think of right now, but someone else will ask.

[jopassmore]

Thanks for the reply:

I am running XP
I have only one hard drive but I don't know how to tell what speed it is.
I am not trying to do anything else while the PC is capturing.

Thanks

[jopassmore]

Can you tell me how to check my CPU fan. Do I just open the box and then power on and see whether it is working?

Sorry to be so thick!

[thecoalman]

Can you tell me how to check my CPU fan. Do I just open the box and then power on and see whether it is working?

Sorry to be so thick!

That is one way..... you can also power on your comp and hit delete (on most computers) on the post screen to get into the csmos. There should be ascreen in there that will give you temps and fan speeds. Temp should be around 35-40 degrees c..... Fan should be about 3000RPM, but that's just average. It could differ.

If it isn't delete look on the post screens for what the key is.

[jopassmore]

Hi

I checked the CPU temp just after it crashed just now and it was 56 deg C. Is that too high? I couldn't find the fan speed.

[thecoalman]

Yea that's high, sounds like you need a a fan. Could judt be that you heatsink is packed with dust.

Open up the case and look on the motherboard. Find the biggest fan, could also be a smaller one on your chipset... There will be a heatsink underneath it that has fins. These should be clear of dust. If there packed upwith dust get some air in a can and blow it out.

Especially if it looks like this....



Also you can see if it's spinning at all, poer up after you take the case off or with the power unhooked spin the fan with your tip of your finger. It should spin easily, it may stop quickly but it should spiin easily.

Important: Make sure to touch a metal part of the case before touching anything else....

While your at look at the other fans and make sure they are spinning and clean the dust pout of them too.

[jopassmore]

Hi

Thanks so much for your advice.

However, I have checked all the fans and they all seem to be working fine. I have also used a program called speedfan to monitor the temp of the cpu over a long period and it seems to be keeping a steady temp, with the fan adjusting it's spin to cool it down when necessary. I have also checked the normal temps for my CPU (AMD) and the temps I am getting are within the normal range.

I was so hoping that this was the problem, but I don't think it is. My PC seems to be getting worse also. It is now crashing regardless of the video codec I am using - I thought it might be just the DVD one that it was finding too hard to cope with. It also crashed just as it was loading windows just now, so it is not very happy at all.

Any further advice would be helpful, otherwise I will get the guy who built it for me to have a look at it.

Thanks

Jo

[tdan]

When's the last time you "repaved" you computer? Might be time.

[jopassmore]

Can you tell me what you mean? I am not much of a techie!

Do you mean wipe it clean and start again?

[BrainStorm69]

Hi

Thanks so much for your advice.

However, I have checked all the fans and they all seem to be working fine. I have also used a program called speedfan to monitor the temp of the cpu over a long period and it seems to be keeping a steady temp, with the fan adjusting it's spin to cool it down when necessary. I have also checked the normal temps for my CPU (AMD) and the temps I am getting are within the normal range.

I was so hoping that this was the problem, but I don't think it is. My PC seems to be getting worse also. It is now crashing regardless of the video codec I am using - I thought it might be just the DVD one that it was finding too hard to cope with. It also crashed just as it was loading windows just now, so it is not very happy at all.

Any further advice would be helpful, otherwise I will get the guy who built it for me to have a look at it.

Thanks

Jo

56 degrees, while within operating limits, is quite high. I'd quit using the program to speed up and slow down your fans and just run them at high speed all the time. Also, since it appears someone else made the computer for you, ask him/her if he/she overclocked the CPU.

Temperatures that high on an overclocked CPU could easily lead to crashes during cpu intensive tasks like capturing and encoding.

[tdan]

Can you tell me what you mean? I am not much of a techie!

Do you mean wipe it clean and start again?

Yes, a rebuild. However, I would follow up on BrainStorm69's advice before you resort to that.

[redwudz]

Yes, I would get the guy who built it to look at it. Your problems can also be caused by a bad memory module. They would typically crap out on heavy CPU loads. If this were the case you may see this on encoding also. Try substituting memory modules.

There are plenty of other things that can cause crashes, such as weak power supply, the aforementioned CPU overheating, BIOS problems (Update the BIOS), viruses, maxed out HD, background programs running, OS corruption, etc.

You just have to eliminate all the things that didn't cause the crash.

[crazythunder]

did you try it in a different pci slot?

[jopassmore]

Thanks all so much for your help.

I think I might have found the problem though. I have identified a process in taskmanager which is taking up a lot of CPU processing (svchost.exe) and although the process itself is legitimate, I think something might be hijacking it. If this is the case, when I try to something else CPU intensive, the PC is crashing. I have spent hours so far trying to find out what is hijacking my PC but so far I haven't got anywhere. I am sure I find the problem eventually.

Thanks so much again.

Jo

[thecoalman]

Do a file search any instance of scvhost, there should only be one copy in the \system32 folder on your machine.

Edit:actually two, there's a copy in sevicepackfiles\i386\

This description sounds like yours, there others simialr too. http://www.liutilities.com/products/wintaskspro/processlibrary/svchost/

Run Adaware, Spybot and MS just released a Spyware app..... all freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Between the three you should be able to eliminate any spyware. At the very least you will be able to identify it.

[edDV]

Realtime DVD MPeg2 capture takes a fast and well tuned computer. Memory isn't so much an issue if you have at least 256-512MB.

Do the Ctl-Alt-Del performance meter to see how your CPU is coping with the realtime capture load.

Im my experience, you need at least a well tuned 2.4GHz P4 or Celeron to do this.

Best to capture to a separate drive so that XP does not take disk priority over your capture. Capture buffers (aka scratch disks) must also be located on the separate drive.

[tipstir]

Listen, 256 isn't enough ram to CAP anything, even if you setup the page file correctly your looking at about 160MB free for RAM. Double the 256 to 512 will leave you 300MB free. Add more cooling fans to your case.

Front of the case should have one 80mm intake fan (means to suck in the cool air flow into the pc case)

Rear of the case should have two spots for fans if not it might handle 1 92mm outake fan (means to suck out the hot air out fo the pc case)

It's better to have an extra fan on the side of the CPU on the case to also outake fan.

Get out your household vack and and use it has a blower to blow out all the dust in the system MOBO and CPU fan area. Clean out all vents take apart the front cover if possible.

You said this was AMD get another FAN for the CPU.
AMD 2700 XP is more than enough 2.x GHz is enough. Just the ram count is way to slow. Also get yourself a good Registry Cleaner Fixer. If all still doesn't solve it to a complete blow out of the OS and start again but do a quick format to save yourself sometime if your using XP.

[edDV]

Listen, 256 isn't enough ram to CAP anything, even if you setup the page file correctly your looking at about 160MB free for RAM. ....

You would think but I see no difference in DV to DVD MPeg2 realtime capture performance with 256MB vs 512MB DRAM* using the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder (ULEAD Video Studio 8 ) but I would agree 512MB offers more safety margin. More RAM has no effect.

*P4 or Celeron 2.4GHz, ATA 100 and 133 HDD, CPU load 60-85% @8000Kbps. 6000Kbps swamps the P4 2.4, you need more CPU horsepower as you compress more.

[tipstir]

edDV,

The user has 2700AMD, that CPU has enough to run CAP and software, and you know it that RAM plays an important part. System Resources is another issue.

CPU AMD 2700 XP 2.xGHz L2 cache
256 RAM is not enough under XP to do any CAP work
Page file is only 384/768MB
XP will use 128MB or more then the page file kicks in
With this type of setup the CPU would be around 61% or more

ULead software requirements are heavy.

512MB of RAM /page file 768/1536
1GB of RAM / page file 1536/3072

Fast HDD 7200RPM ATA 133
Defrag one with the correct MFT size setup.

L2 Cache by default is set 256Kb, shoudl be change to match your L2 cache in system, 512, 1024, 2048, 3072.

I use Ulead DVD Workshop Professional and with my specs below is quite enough for it.

[edDV]

OK we are basically saying the same thing

but I have a Celeron 2.4, 256MB RAM ATA-100 (Via motherboard) 7200 HDD doing DV input from Canopus ADVC-100 (connected to cable box) to DV MPeg2 8000Kbps running 60-85% CPU using ULead VideoStudio 8 (MainConcept Encoder) running for hours at a time for cable capture.

When I upgraded to 512MB ram, nothing changed. I was especially watching the CPU % usage.

The XP configuration is pretty bare bones. I realize I'm running close to the edge. 7000Kbps MPeg2 CBR still works (@80-99% CPU) but at 6000Kbps it chokes.

Just a data point.

Average users should be looking at least for 2.4GHz, 512MB RAM, ATA-100 HDD and disk controllers. More CPU GHz adds safety or more compression and is more important than additional DRAM.

PS: there is also no difference between a 2.4 P4 and a 2.4 Celeron. This has been confirmed in other benchmarks (see Tom's hardware and others*) that L2 Cache seems unimportant for MPeg2 encoders. Neither of the processors that I was using had Hyperthreading but the ULEAD VideoStudio version of MainConcept encoder I'm told doesn't support Hyperthreading anyway. The Mainconcept encoder in Premiere and Vegas 5 does support Hyperthreading.

* http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020903/

[winifreid]

You should be able to capture without crashes with this card and your system. You might want to run adaware or search and destroy to check for trojans and such. After you make sure you don't have any virii, turn off you protection while you capture. Test to see if you can capture to avi using a codec like picvideo or huffyuv. Try capturing to half d1 in mpeg....

[tipstir]

edDV,

I been around longer than Toms Hardware test web site, I do this stuff for a living. But I not going there right now.

Move alone

What do you mean there's no difference?
Come on now!

1. Price
2. detective Pentium P4
3. Celeron means in the trade (no release)
4. L2 cach is smaller
5. Celeron runs slower than P4

Intel P4 Prescott A 2.4 GHz
L2 cache 1024kb (1MB)
FSB 533 MHz

With the right MOBO this can be overclocked to the max:

2.6, 2.7, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6 GHz / FSB 832 max

Intel Celeron 2.4 GHz
L2 cache 256kb
FSB 400 MHz - Northwood
FSB 500 MHz - Prescott

Now don't get me wrong Celeron PCs are good for download and some video editing, but nothing major the CPU just not able to handle the task. I hate to say it buy I got a Celeron was, but I got it for free. Even tweaking the CPU features to the max and memory it's not a bad CPU, but the P4 still beats it!

No way would I run my HTPC with a Celeron or do any heavy duty DVD Authoring. When I run GB-PVR Recording service, WinTV PVR 150 in recording Live TV and GB-PVR Server, watching 720x480 High Quality MPEG2 movie on Media MVP 1000 CPU is only running at 20%.

But that's me my system is fully tweaked, from NIC, network buffers, L2 cache and I run a memory re-cov er program in the background.

Btw I have Mainconcepts Encoder on both systems it doesn't use all that CPU as you mention but then again you're running different programs, A/Virus, firewall other things.

I have all my GP, SP disabled which I don't need under XP Pro, frees up a lot of wasted RAM and memory resources.

[edDV]

OK, I'll play

I was comparing Northwood P4 to Northwood Celeron both 2.4 GHz. Only difference is L2 Cache (512 vs 128) and FSB (533 vs 400) neither make a significant difference with the MainConcept MPeg2 encoder used in ULead Video Studio 8. For this comparison, Celeron and P4 were run at the same speed, both chips are identical except as stated above.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020903/p4_celeron-08.html#mpeg4_encoding_flask_501

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/intelamdcpuroundupvideo/
see Mainconcept MPeg2 tests and paragraph under re: Northwood P4 and Celeron. I'll copy it below.

I will concede there was a small difference for the Canopus and Divx encoders favoring the P4. All the others were equal or near equal.

I do not generalize this to any other version of either chip. Mileage and specs will vary.

Ref:
Copied from the link above concerning Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder test results

"For MPEG2 encoding the Hyper-Threading works correctly, and Intel's processors that support it get a good gain. Just compare Pentium 4 2.4C and its sibling without Hyper-Threading. By the way, if the bus bandwidth is not indicated, it means that the RAM speed has a weak effect on performance, and the comparison of the Pentium 4 2.4C and Pentium 4 2.4 comes to comparison of performance of the processors with HT and without it. Performance doesn't depend much on the cache size, though there's some difference between the processors with the large and small L2 caches. But the worst disadvantage of the Celeron is not the cache but the lack of the Hyper-Threading. The gap between Celeron 2.0 and Pentium 4 2.0 is not that great, it's the same for Celeron 2.4 GHz and Pentium 4 of the same clock speeds without Hyper-Threading. And the breakaway of Pentium 4 2.4C is caused not by the large cache... AMD's processors look flabby in this test - AMD's flagships Athlon XP 3200+ and Athlon 64 FX-51 go on a par with Pentium 4 2.4C and fall behind Pentium 4 3.2 GHz. But the worst thing for AMD is not the defeat of its top CPUs but the fact that Athlon XP 2500+ looks equal to Celeron 2.4 GHz! "


OK tipster, your turn.

[edDV]

edDV,

...

No way would I run my HTPC with a Celeron or do any heavy duty DVD Authoring. When I run GB-PVR Recording service, WinTV PVR 150 in recording Live TV and GB-PVR Server, watching 720x480 High Quality MPEG2 movie on Media MVP 1000 CPU is only running at 20%....

I'm sure you know that is not a fair comparison since the PVR 150 has a built-in hardware MPeg2 encoder so the CPU has little else to do.

My point in describing the Northwood Celeron 2.4 was to show where the lower limit is for real time MPeg2 encoding and where to invest for better performance. In my experience, once you have 256MB RAM, its mostly about CPU horsepower and that is where the money should be spent.

[thecoalman]

Why dont you guys go fist fight on this thread...



https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=251737

[edDV]

heh

That is a cool link. Thanks