Radeon 9200 Washed out colors

[aaberg]

Bought a Pinnacle Studio 9 (and updated to latest version) connected my Sony TRV460 Digital 8 camera to the computer and started make my DVD. Soon found out that I end up with darker and washed out colors in the end (in the computer and also then looking on TV). Installed different capture programs but all gives same poor result. The Pinnacle support says it most likely it is the Radeon 9200 Altantis video card that makes the problems. I have updated to latest version but the problems still exist. What to do?

[lordsmurf]

Video card has NOTHING to do with it. Pinnacle support is stupid. The graphics card has NOTHING to do with video quality. That's completely the fault of the hardware and software (Pinnacle or Sony in this case).

Quite frankly, Pinnacle software is crap. Dump it. You're grabbing DV AVI. Look in the TOOLS list and get something else (plenty of working free options).

[aaberg]

Thank you for your answer. I have tried different free software with same poor result as with Pinnacle. Strange. Seems like I have to try another camera, could it be my Sony? Any more suggestions?

[on30trainman]

If it is your final output DVD that is bad it may be the camera. I have the ATI Radeon 9200 video card and am very happy with it. Also use Pinnacle Studio 9 with very good results. My output DVDs are as good as the DV video viewed directly from the camera to the TV. Pinnacle Studio products are often badmouthed, but I have had very good results with them. My camcorder is a Canon Optura 20.
When you view your video directly from the camera to the TV is it good? If so, there has to be some bad link in your computer hardware somewhere. The preview window in video editing software always seems to be darker and less sharp, but that is the nature of the software. The final output media should be OK.

[trock]

Any more suggestions?

Read this:

http://www.signvideo.com/dv-black-levels-dvd-authoring-mpeg-2-part-1.htm

[offline]

Ist of all ATI is not brilliant for PAL capture. Those
here that swear by ATI come from North America - aka NTSC users.

2nd Have you adjusted the default image settings ?

[aaberg]

1. Hmm. I use PAL.
2. As far I understand I have adjusted my ATI settings correct. Colors looks OK then using Photoshop and watching pictures produced with my scanners. But both still pictures and movies imported from my Sony looks dark and have washed out colors compared to then playing directly from my camera connected to TV. Also if I perform a DVD burn with my Pinnacle movie and look at it on TV it remain dark and with washed out colors. I will try to test with another camera today to se if this gives any differenties.

[lordsmurf]

I'm under the understanding this is NOT an ATI AIW card, but just an ATI display card.

The digital 8 footage (DV) is being transferred to the PC via firewire or USB or something.

[offline]

I'm under the understanding this is NOT an ATI AIW card, but just an ATI display card.

The digital 8 footage (DV) is being transferred to the PC via firewire or USB or something.

If this is the case aaberg, then LordSmurf is 100% correct. DV via
firewire or USB has nothing to do with your video card. It will be your
capture port or software (sounds like software) or your camera.

Try another capture suite (search the tools link on left hand side)

[Redd]

Out of curiosity...does the video quality looked washed out and dark when played back on the camcorder view screen, or just after being captured?
I'm thinking you may have a defective cable...(Firewire or USB?) that may be sending a damaged single to your computer during capture.

[trock]

Then again you could read the article referenced above which explains why DV always looks dark and washed out on a PC screen (the difference in IRE levels) and also in some cases on a TV screen (the differences in how various MPEG encoders treat black levels). And the article also gives you solutions.

[racerxnet]

Here are some good links to technical questions on seting up your TV/Monitor/ and other devices to NTSC standards. After all, if neither meet the specs, then how will you know the output will be accurate?

Color Bars and How To Use 'em
http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm
by Hal Landen

Smpte Color Bars

Color bars are an artifical electronic signal generated by the camera or by post production equipment. They are recorded at the head of a videotape to provide a consistent reference in post production. They are also used for matching the output of two cameras in a multi-camera shoot and to set up a video monitor.

Before we proceed, you should know that computer monitors are quite different from video monitors and TV sets. You are seeing this on a computer monitor so you will not have the same kind of controls or images as on a video monitor. In fact, if you create graphics on a computer monitor, it's very easy to be fooled into thinking you have a great looking graphic for your video. But the only real test is when you see that image on a properly adjust video monitor.

The graphics on this page are for example only. You'll want to use real color bars generated from a camera and viewed on a VIDEO monitor or TV set. Send enginering feedback on this article to me at video@videouniversity.com
To Set up a Video Monitor or TV
1. Allow the monitor to warm up for a few minutes

2. Dim the room lights and block any reflections on the monitor

3. Feed color bars to the monitor either from a camera or "house bars" from your editing system

4. Set the contrast also called "picture" to its midpoint

5. Turn the chroma also called "color" all the way down until the color bars are shades of black and white


Diagram of Colors and Values
Diagram of Colors and Values

6. Notice the three narrow bars labeled 3.5, 7.5 and 11.5 on the bottom right. These are the Pluge Bars which stands for Picture Lineup Generating Equipment. Adjust the brightness control until the middle (7.5 units) pluge bar is not quite visible. The lightest bar on the right (11.5 units) should be barely visible. If it's not visible, turn the brightness up until it becomes visible.

Since 7.5 units is as dark as video gets, you should not see any difference between the left bar (3.5 units) and the middle bar (7.5 units). There should be no dividing line between these two bars. The only division you should see is between 11.5 and 7.5 (Note this same technique is used in setting the b&w viewfinder on your video camera.)

7. The next step is to set the contrast control for a proper white level. To do so, turn the contrast all the way up. The white (100 unit) bar will bloom and flare. Now turn the contrast down until this white bar just begins to respond. The image below shows what it should look like at this point.

Correct Color Bars without Color
Correct NTSC Color Bars without Color



The image below is INCORRECT.

Incorrect Color Bars without Color
Incorrect NTSC Color Bars without Color

The above image shows a monitor whose black level (brightness) is too high. Of the three pluge bars, only the 11.5 pluge bar should be visible.

NOW for the colors...

First a shortcut to adjusting hue: With a little experience you can avoid the next two steps by simply "eye-balling" the yellow and magneta. The yellow should be a lemon yellow without orange or green. And the magenta should not be red or purple. And you're done.

But here's another way: Many professional monitors have a blue-only switch. If your monitor has one, switch it on. If your monitor does not have a blue-only switch, you can use a piece of blue lighting gel. Hold it to your eye like a viewing lens. If you see any of the red, green or yellow colors, double the blue gel over to increase the blue effect.

By using the blue-only switch or a piece of blue gel, you have removed the red and green elements of the picture. Only the blue remains. If the tint and color (also called "hue") are correct, you should see alternating bars of equal intensity as in the example below. With a little practice, you'll be able to eye-ball this step fairly precisely.

8. With the blue switch on (or your blue gel in front of your eye) turn the chroma or color until the grey bar at the far left and the blue bar at the far right are of equal brightness. One trick is to match either the gray or blue bar with its sub-bar.

9. Adjust the hue control until the cyan and magenta bars are also of equal brightness. You can also match either of them with their sub-bars. Now the four bars - gray, blue, cyan, and magenta should be of equal intensity. The yellow, green and red (which are black in the diagram below) should be completely black.

Here's a diagram:

Blue Only Diagram
Blue Only Diagram

Now here's what it looks like "in color."

Blue Color Bars without Red & Green
Correct Blue Check (minus Red & Green)



You should now have a properly adjusted video monitor. However, if flesh tones don't look right, you may need to make further adjustments to the chroma and hue. That's why engineers say (half jokingly) NTSC means "Never Twice The Same Color."

SMPTE Color Bars
Correct NTSC Color Bars

Here's what these same color bars look like on a waveform monitor:

Color Bars on a waveform monitor
Color bars on a waveform monitor

Once you have set up your monitor, leave it alone. Unless you have a waveform and vectorscope, its the only instrument you have to see how accurate your video is. This is true of your camera viewfinder, your field monitor and your studio monitor.

NEW See PAL Color Bars contributed by Sheldon Kennedy.
After you've set up a few monitors, you'll soon know what proper bars look like and then you'll be able to easily "eye-ball it" with a fair amount of precision. For more information on the video signal, see the engineering article. But before you get too technical, why not think about making your video business more PROFITABLE!

http://www.epanorama.net/links/videotest.html
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV.html
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Ld/VideoFormats.html
http://scanline.ca/ycbcr/
http://www.adamwilt.com/DVvsMJPEG.html
http://www.customflix.com/Producer/Top10Nightmares.jsp;jsessionid=ajxl42Escdmg

Doom9 also has some indepth details regarding chipset peculiarities. It is in the capturing section.

MAK