PAL Flicker present before conversion?

[CaZeek]

Hello,
I have some PAL tapes / DVDs that seem to have the "flicker" many people refer to when I play them on my NTSC TV (after being run through a converter). On my computer monitor, I do not see this flicker when the disk is playing in PAL mode or after the conversion to NTSC. I've done some reading on PAL / NTSC over the web, and from what I'm gathering, this flicker is always present (it has nothing to do with the conversion). This is listed as one of the flaws of the PAL format.. NTSC viewers tend to notice the flicker, as they're not used to it. Am I correct in this? Is the flicker always present or is it a biproduct of the NTSC conversion?
Thanks a lot =)

Edit: In case this was not clear, I can only test on my computer monitor, as I don't have a PAL TV, but neither format is flickering on the monitor.

[Sugar]

I have been using the PAL land in the NTSC world for the past 4 years and have only noticed flickers when there was a bad conversion.

Your computer monitor can play indeferrently and correctly both PAL and NTSC and you will not see any problems. These occur only on a TV set. I suspect a bad conversion or a bad converter. How do you convert from PAL to NTSC ?

[johns0]

I've done lots of pal to ntsc conversion and never see any flicker when using good source files.

[CaZeek]

I'm using this converter to convert. I did some research, and it seemed like the best option under thousands of dollars.
http://www.world-import.com/cmd1200.htm

[Sugar]

Do not know your converter. I play my Pal DVDs with my Malata player and have never had any issue.
I also do the converstion of my PAL DV tapes when creating an NTSC DVD. I do it with Premiere. I takes some work, there is quality loss but no flicker.

I only had some flicker when the change in frame rate from 25 fps to 29.97 fps was not working or was not performed properly.

[CaZeek]

Hmm,
Before I made the purchase, everyone said that software methods just didn't cut it. I'm not noticing significant quality loss via the converter, just the slight flicker. By flicker (in case I'm mistaking in its definition), I mean the motion will be "slightly" jerky in scenes with a lot of motion. I wish I could play the PAL sources on a PAL TV to see for sure.

Thanks for the replies

[Sugar]

Just to clarify, I play my PAL DVDs with the Malata on my NTSC TV (it does not read PAL). As I said, never had any flicker. Conversion works perfectly even with a lot of motion.

Sorry for not being able to assist any better.

[junkmalle]

Any interlaced video, PAL or NTSC, converted or not, can flicker under the right conditions. Try burning this image to an NTSC DVD:



The flicker will knock you out of the room.

[CaZeek]

Well the flickering is much more frequent than that which I've seen in any NTSC videos. I can see flickers much more often when the video is panning to a certain direction, or as I said, in scenes with much motion.

[junkmalle]

By flicker (in case I'm mistaking in its definition), I mean the motion will be "slightly" jerky in scenes with a lot of motion.

Sorry, I missed that. That's not the type of interlaced video flicker I was refering too. Unsmooth motion like you describe is generally a problem when converting from PAL to NTSC or vice versa. Software conversion can do better but it's a lot of work to do it properly (see some of the guides at this site for more information). It's an issue of displaying a 25 frame per second video at 29.97 frames per second. The only way to do it is to duplicate a frame (or field) here and there. So there will be a slight pause now and then -- leading to jerky motions. It's most obvious in smooth pans or when a large object moves smoothly across the screen.

[lordsmurf]

Hardware does better than software, converting formats. Both are liable to have artifacts, especially on interlaced sources, and ESPECIALLY during high motion.

People need to realize interlace conversion and "backing up movies" conversion (progressive) are different animals entirely. Progressive conversion is idiot-proof (pretty much). Interlace work is quite difficult.

People somtimes use words improperly. I do it myself sometimes, so I try to define myself too. So... what are you calling "flicker". A picture or clip speaks volumes.

Software DVD players do advanced adaptive/bob/weave deinterlace. Totally worthless for testing. A tv is the only important factor.