do I HAVE to filter VHS tapes when going to DVD?

[choirislife923]

ok, i'm starting up my own VHS->DVD business to help me pay through college. my question is...i'm using a really crappy capture card (ATI TV Wonder (uses brooktree bt484 chipset)) with my audio going through my onboard sound card (nVidia nForce2 chipset). Do I have to apply filters while going from VHS tapes to DVD to make it "nicer", since some professional dvd conversion businesses do so? and if I have do, what filters should I use?

[jimmalenko]

You don't HAVE to do anything ... but IMO it would be in your best interests to do noise removal at the very least. If you provide a good product at the right price, people will look after your business for you.

I'm sure a few other people can suggest other filters that should be in your toolkit.

[lordsmurf]

ok, i'm starting up my own VHS->DVD business to help me pay through college. my question is...i'm using a really crappy capture card (ATI TV Wonder (uses brooktree bt484 chipset)) with my audio going through my onboard sound card (nVidia nForce2 chipset). Do I have to apply filters while going from VHS tapes to DVD to make it "nicer", since some professional dvd conversion businesses do so? and if I have do, what filters should I use?

Buy some real equipment.
Good card, and a whole inventory of good video hardware.
What you have won't cut it, not at all. Not even close.

[choirislife923]

would a miniDV camcorder with DVpassthru count as "real equpiment"?

[jimmalenko]

You'd need an analog passthru and a firewire card.

[lordsmurf]

would a miniDV camcorder with DVpassthru count as "real equpiment"?

No.

Read the "what's best" section here:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/newbiesguide.htm

[The_Doman]

would a miniDV camcorder with DVpassthru count as "real equpiment"?

Ofcourse it's no professional equipment, but it will work very well all sorts of (VHS) video conversions. It has almost the same functionality as a canopus ADV conversion box. I use a Sony D8 for it which works really great, it even stabilizes the VHS signal.

[choirislife923]

lordsmurf...thats quite overkill for a simple money maker....so lets just say I went ahead with my miniDV camcorder and my hifi VCR from 1996...what filters would i need to apply to fix/improve/whatever the VHS video?

[Sifaga]

If i research this for you do i get a cut

[jimmalenko]

lordsmurf...thats quite overkill for a simple money maker....so lets just say I went ahead with my miniDV camcorder and my hifi VCR from 1996...what filters would i need to apply to fix/improve/whatever the VHS video?

Although I can't and don't speak for him, I don't think LS is gonna share many trade screts with a backyard operator with equipment almost 10 years old . If you want to do the job properly, you need the proper equipment. I too think LS is a little over the top with his "minimum requirements", but that is IHO what is required to get anywhere near the standard that professionals can produce. What you've got will be OK for a home operation for your own private collection, but to expect to make it into a business ? Good luck

[choirislife923]

but to expect to make it into a business ? Good luck

nah, just some extra cash to spend on campus and tuition. i dont plan to start a business with a storefront, but a bulletin-board posting operation in my college town.

[choirislife923]

equipment almost 10 years old

hey, at least it gots a TBC on it!

[richdvd]

I think Lordsmurf's guide to equipment is good. If you want to start a business and do professional quality work, you need to spend a few thousand dollars on equipment. You just can't produce good results with cheap equipment.

[disturbed1]

but to expect to make it into a business ? Good luck

nah, just some extra cash to spend on campus and tuition. i dont plan to start a business with a storefront, but a bulletin-board posting operation in my college town.

Just get a Panasonic Standalone DVD Recorder, and be done with it.

I hate to be rude, but, I'm assuming your close to broke to begin with, the investment required to get decent results would equal, if not surpass a stand alone DVD Recorder. With out some serious knowldge and experience, your results would be bad no matter what equiptment you managed to purchase.

Video follows the weakest link in a chain rule. No matter what software and hardware you have, if you can't use it properly, your results will suck.

If you must use your ATI card, get the BTWin cap drives. This will allow you to capture at 720x480 in uncompressed YUV. Create a script in avisynth using some filters (blockbuster, convolution3d, deen, peachsmoother, msharpen, msmoother etc...) but the time factor increases a great deal.

You can get a standalone DVD Recorder below $300 everywhere. Grab some TY discs ($50 100 pack) and charge $9.95 out the door.

[tonyp2]

lordsmurf, I'm interested in understanding why you list the Sharp VCR as the cheapie backup to the JVC. Is it any better than any other cheap $50 VCR?

[lordsmurf]

lordsmurf, I'm interested in understanding why you list the Sharp VCR as the cheapie backup to the JVC. Is it any better than any other cheap $50 VCR?

The Sharp is one of your better VHS VCRs (for under $200). It tends to play a lot of tapes from many sources, a unique ability. And it plays them well. The digital tracking is also excellent. I don't need it often, but it's good to have when I do. I researched VCRs pretty extensively in the late 90s. This was the winner. The Panasonic ones come in second.

[gshelley61]

I have to chime in as well. If you are going to charge people money to do video transfers, they should be well done. Get some decent equipment. You at least need a real good VCR (a higher end S-VHS unit would be preferable) and a TBC or stabilizer. A video processor that allows you to tweak the image is essential. I'd also suggest a quality standalone DVD recorder instead of PC based transferring - they work very well and are fast. Time=money

[NamPla]

I think the guy is doing a "campus"-style effort, not a pro-lab sort of thing.

I run off VHS movies onto DVDs for my mates, they pay me a slab of beer or a gram of pot or whatever... I'm thinking of sticking an advertisement on my apartment block notice board!?

If you're going the cheap VCR/capture card route, I recommend the avisynth method, mate.

They'll boggle their eyes and go "Wow! That looks like a DVD!"...

Have a read of FulciLive's "Convolution3D" guide, then the Doom9 capture guide, etc... And THEN have a look at Lord Smurf's guide. And THEN sit down & consider some de-hissing filters for your audio soundtrack! Heh...

Without great guides like this, you can spend YEARS trying to work it all out yourself.

(PS: Ha even after learning this shit, there's still YEARS to go...!) :P

[NamPla]

Go through this tutorial---

http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/avisynth_tutorial_page_6.cfm

Start from there & you'll be laughin'!

[lordsmurf]

lordsmurf...thats quite overkill for a simple money maker....so lets just say I went ahead with my miniDV camcorder and my hifi VCR from 1996...what filters would i need to apply to fix/improve/whatever the VHS video?

No two tapes are alike. That's why you need lots of hardware and software. And EXPERIENCE first and foremost.

[vhelp]

Hi guys

Here's my so called, professional wisdom/words on the subject of VHS
and reproduction thereof..

Don't apply filtering !!

But, your tools (equipment) will count in the things of quality.

I don't recommend the ADVC-100 for VHS transfers/conversion from. Instead,
if you really want the best quality. (though too many important key elements
to write down here)
And, since you are thinking about a DV route. I would recommended you look
into the Sony TRV22 cam. This cam is the best (IMO and based on my actual
experience w/ VHS sources) to use for VHS projects.

IMO, one should never use any filtering in VHS projects. It's a myth that it
has noise. The only noise in VHS is the signal that it captured. But, *NOT*
the VHS it-self
.
So, you have tons of peoples devising filter plug-ins and what-nots, and
everyone is following like drones to use them, and only to find that (though
sooner or later) they are not satisfied with the "filtered" results.
That is how it was for me, *until* I learned (realized) that filtering is
a no-no. Sorry, but IMO, I'm just speaking the plain trueth. "If you want
the trueth, ..you can't handle the trueth" unless you realy want the trueth.
Hope that made sense hehe..

For VHS..

Filtering is a no-no. I recommend capturing at the highest resolution for
maxumum reproduction of content. That means, 720 x 480/576 and then
encode to MPEG-2.

Skills and Knowledge ...

Is another factor to consider. Your mileage will vary. This is another
important key element *in any video restoration* project.

But, the only worry you have to ponder about are those VHS tapes that you
obtain from peoples.

* what are the contents on it
* condition of tape
* SP vs. LP - recording mode
* clean source vs. noisy source
* cam footage transfer - think abuot equipement user used. How about their skills
* source type: film vs. interlace
* recordeding made to tape - from what medium (ie, cable; antenna; vhs; cam etc)

Tons and Tons of what if 's here.

But, if you want to re-create the video, then (as logic would have it) you
must not filter. ..because filtering will change your source, pixel by pixel
into something different.
.
What you want is to capture at higest video (720 x 480) and "sharpen your skills
and technique" on the encoding process.
.
To do that, you have to know a few things about the source contents on the VHS
tape.
Is it Film; Interlace; taped to VHS cam footage; person's knowedge/skills in cam
operations; etc etc etc etc.. well, I could go on, but my head hurts
Then, you work with this, but using your wisdom/knowledge (which is not some
thing learned onver night, or with a template either)

After the above, (and then some - sorry, no room here) you have to make a judgment
call on the amount of bitrate to use. If your source is 1 hour, then 9000 bitrate
is not going to be practicle, because it wont fit on a DVD-R. And, the lower the
bitrate, the worse your quality, and less chance your source will look like the
original copy. The goal here, is to look like the original copy. Not gonna
happen if you start filtering.

However, filtering will (by smoothing) help to lower your bitrate and maybe
fit a 1 hour program (whatever the source) onto a DVD at a lower bitrate.

You're going to see lots of people here agree that 352 x 480 is good for VHS
reproduction. I say no, it's not. But, that's my OPINION

Remember, tv medium's are changing fast in todays' industry. We are moving up
to higher defination. Making 352 x 480 is going to *much* worse than making
720 x 480 encodes. Something to think about. Because chances are, those
customers will be making such purchases. And, if your aim is for a business,
then I would suggest *not* to do 352 x 480 but rather aim for 720 x 480 instead,
and practice sharpening your skills and techniques in the VHS of things.

I'm sorry, but there is a ton of stuff to talk about here, but not enough room
to write it all (from my experience)

Have a good VCR, and with S-Video. Don't settle for RCA/Composite.

Did I say, filtering VHS is a no-no ??

The bottom line is:

* equipment
* knowledge
* Techniques

-vhelp

[lordsmurf]

Software filters are far inferior to hardware filters (most of the time). I always filter in hardware, almost never filter in software.

[NamPla]

Full-on, Vhelp.

So you recommend a DVD stand-alone recorder attached to a S-VHS VCR?

I think that's the best way to go.

But if you don't have that expensive stuff (eg AUS$600 for a S-VHS JVC VCR, and AUS$800 for a JVC DVD Recorder), well then you gotta make do with a stupid 4-head mono Philips VCR and an old capture card & DVD burner.

So filtering (via avisynth) IS worthwhile. I wonder how it compares to the VCR-to-DVDRecorder route?

[tonyp2]

The Sharp is one of your better VHS VCRs (for under $200). It tends to play a lot of tapes from many sources, a unique ability. And it plays them well. The digital tracking is also excellent.

So, if I have only VHS (not S-VHS) tapes, and an AVTools AVT8710, would a Sharp VCR be a good cost-effective way of doing transfers? (I also have a Vidicraft Detailer III). Would using something like a JVC 9911 really get me anything better?

[lordsmurf]

The Sharp is one of your better VHS VCRs (for under $200). It tends to play a lot of tapes from many sources, a unique ability. And it plays them well. The digital tracking is also excellent.

So, if I have only VHS (not S-VHS) tapes, and an AVTools AVT8710, would a Sharp VCR be a good cost-effective way of doing transfers? (I also have a Vidicraft Detailer III). Would using something like a JVC 9911 really get me anything better?

It's absolutely better. S-VHS players also handle VHS tapes, and use the same filtering tech on them. No comparison. Some tapes have certain errors, however, that make many machines go nuts, including JVC and Panasonic S-VHS players. The SHARP can often slice through that problem. It's not common, but common enough to experience from time to time. VHS is a noisy format on a cheap player. Yes, anything "VHS only" is a cheap player. A good player will extract the quality signal and even give it some filtering.

The SHARP is a last-straw option. It plays great, but nowhere near as good as an S-VHS player. It's the lesser of evils when facing that certain error.

[tonyp2]

It's absolutely better. S-VHS players also handle VHS tapes, and use the same filtering tech on them. No comparison. Some tapes have certain errors, however, that make many machines go nuts, including JVC and Panasonic S-VHS players. The SHARP can often slice through that problem.

Okay. Given that I'm not sure I'd want a player with a (since I already have one) TBC in it, is there a good value solution in S-VHS? I check eBay every so often, and there are a lot of old Panny AG series players up for auction. But a lot of these are pretty old, with wide gap heads, so I'm not sure if they're worth getting in comparison to a newer JVC with 19 um heads. There are a lot of JVC 3912s up for auction, but I don't know anything about them. I have not yet seen a Panny 4800 series up for auction.

[lordsmurf]

You want a JVC 7000 or 9000 series. One of the more recent models.

[tonyp2]

You want a JVC 7000 or 9000 series. One of the more recent models.

How about something like a 7600 or 9500, or a 9800? I don't know much about the 7600 or 9500; were these considered good machines? Wasn't the 6700 supposed to be a very good pro-grade deck?

[lordsmurf]

9800, 7600

[bugster]

If your source is 1 hour, then 9000 bitrate
is not going to be practicle,

Ummm, yes it will, if you use compressed audio (Ac3 or mp2).