AC3 via TMPGEnc's encoder - Dolby surround not heard

[LetsRip]

I'm trying to narrow down what I believe is an AC3 encoding issue using TMPGEnc's Sound Player (TSP).

When playing a DVD with AC3's created by TSP, and Dolby Pro-Logic is enabled, the surround channels are essentially negligible (almost all audio comes from the center channel). When I play the source VHS, surround sound is much more evident. The source audio was transferred via DV pass-through to an AVI-2 file, and then extracted to WAV using CCE-Basic. Finally, I use TSP to encode to AC3, using the default settings.

My question is this - when using TSP to encode AC3 files, are there some 'best' settings to ensure Dolby surround (Pro-Logic) passes from the WAV file to the resulting AC3 file? Could a problem be introduced in my procedures other than the WAV to AC3 encoding step?

Your feedback is appreciated!

[gastorgrab]

I'm almost certain that TMPGEnc AC3 encoder plugin is 2-channel (stereo) only.

[geohei]

I'm trying to narrow down what I believe is an AC3 encoding issue using TMPGEnc's Sound Player (TSP).

Sorry, I can't help you out with your issue, but I have a question regarding TSP.

- Does TMPGEnc allow AC3 encoding?
- Is this a plug-in?

TIA

[gastorgrab]

TMPGEnc MPEG encoder won't encode AC3 for you, but there is a plugin for TMPGEnc DVD Author.

TMPGEnc MPEG encoder compresses your input to MPEG. To make a DVD, you'll need an authoring tool like TMPGEnc DVD Author (there are many other DVD authoring apps)

TMPGEnc DVD Author offers a AC3 Encoding plugin (stereo, no surround).

When you encode your video to DVD-MPEG(-2), your supposes to set TMPGEnc MPEG encoder to output a separate stream for the audio (48kHz WAV file). Then you can use TMPGEnc DVD Author (or other) to layout the content of the DVD so your DVD player can find it. A few extra files are created (*.IFO, *.BUP) along with the standard directories; "VIDEO_TS", AND "AUDIO_TS". This InFOrmation is used by your DVD player to navigate through the video on your DVD-movie.

It's TMPGEnc DVD Author that uses the AC3 Encoder Plugin.

[geohei]

Ok. Thanks a lot for your answer!

[andkiich]

I thought that TMPGENC Express 3.0 had an AC3 2-channel plug-in.

[Martyn1980]

You could try using another program to encode the AC3, as im not sure how good the TMpeg encoder is.

Is the Wav still stereo when you've ripped it to the HD, and is the AC3 stereo after its encoded.

In ProLogic, sound mostly out of the Center speaker means its usually a Mono source, so it looks like at some point, either in the capturing, going to wav and AC3, that the sound is getting downmixed to Mono.

As long as you keep the sound in Stereo and dont compress the AC3 to below 192k bitrate, then the Dolby ProLogic sound should be preserved.

[supersonicl2]

Hey Here's a great idea you should use Nero to encode the audio. All you have to do is go to Nero Burning Rom and then look up top at the task bar and go to extra, then go to encode files. Then just use the original audio from the movie you have and just use the ac3 plugin from Nero and change the settings to 5.1Dolby Digital Surround Sound then encode it from there and presto. There's your new 5.1 surround sound audio, and it also works with TMPEG DVD Author fine.

[gastorgrab]

I thought that TMPGENC Express 3.0 had an AC3 2-channel plug-in.

Looks like your correct;
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te3xp.html

TMPGEnc 2.5 still won't, thats what i have. I use ffmpegGUI to encode 2-channel AC3.

[andkiich]

I thought I remembered reading that somewhere. Thanks for doing the legwork.

[VideoTechMan]

TMPGEnc MPEG encoder won't encode AC3 for you, but there is a plugin for TMPGEnc DVD Author.

TMPGEnc MPEG encoder compresses your input to MPEG. To make a DVD, you'll need an authoring tool like TMPGEnc DVD Author (there are many other DVD authoring apps)

TMPGEnc DVD Author offers a AC3 Encoding plugin (stereo, no surround).


It's TMPGEnc DVD Author that uses the AC3 Encoder Plugin.

The AC3 Plugin will work with both the TMPGEnc encoder (Xpress 3.0 version only) and DVD Author. And as far as the Encoder goes, I get very good results when encoding to AC3, and plays fine with my standalone DVD players, including the PS2 which is usually picky with DVD's.

VTM

[geohei]

The AC3 Plugin will work with both the TMPGEnc encoder (Xpress 3.0 version only) and DVD Author.

Do you have a link where to get this AC3 plug-in from? I checked on the TMPGEnc homepage but didn't find anything.

TIA

[VideoTechMan]

The AC3 Plugin will work with both the TMPGEnc encoder (Xpress 3.0 version only) and DVD Author.

Do you have a link where to get this AC3 plug-in from? I checked on the TMPGEnc homepage but didn't find anything.

TIA

You most likely looked at the other TMPGEnc site, which only has the 2.5 Plus version and nothing else.....you need to go to the parent site Pegasys to get the AC3 plugin:


http://www.pegasys-inc.com/en/index.html

The plugin is $30 but will work with both DVD Author and the Encoder.

VTM

[LetsRip]

In ProLogic, sound mostly out of the Center speaker means its usually a Mono source, so it looks like at some point, either in the capturing, going to wav and AC3, that the sound is getting downmixed to Mono.

As long as you keep the sound in Stereo and dont compress the AC3 to below 192k bitrate, then the Dolby ProLogic sound should be preserved.

...and now back to the original topic of this thread ...

Thanks, Martyn1980 - I'm thinking of creating some AC3 files using the same source WAV using different settings in TSP, and will post my results.

BTW - TSP will run stand-alone by running the EXE directly, and is also supported as a plug-in within DVD-lab (the authoring program I use).

[bugster]

The source audio was transferred via DV pass-through to an AVI-2 file, and then extracted to WAV using CCE-Basic.

Just an idea.

Make sure your camera is set up to produce 48khz (16-bit audio). Many cameras default to 12 bit (32khz) audio. Upsampling from this could well lose some if not most of the surround info in a dolby pro-logic source.

[Cornucopia]

Even with AC3 2ch. encoders, there is supposed to be a flag which can be set which specifies what kind of stereo mix the stream is to be treated as:

1. Don't Know (default)
2. No Dolby Surround, std. Stereo/Dualchannel
3. Dolby Surround

It should be there in the plugin. It's there with every other encoder I've tried.

Scott

[Martyn1980]

Yeah but it is just a flag and does nothing with the actual mix.

It automatically turns on DPL2 on my receiver though, which is helpful at times.

LetsRip, is the Wav definetly stereo?

[Cornucopia]

Correct, it needs to pre-mixed as Dolby Surround to get full use out of the effect, but you can always "pretend" its DS, with the flag, even if it isn't. Sometimes it sounds cooler decoded that way, sometimes not.

Scott

[Martyn1980]

Yeah, a lot of plain stereo stuff sound great mixed into DPL2, Pink Floyd stuff does.

But i think LetsRip's source is getting Downmixed to Mono, in which case it will sound terrible in Pro Logic as only the Centre channel wil be used.

[Cornucopia]

Yup

[gastorgrab]

The AC3 Plugin will work with both the TMPGEnc encoder (Xpress 3.0 version only) and DVD Author. And as far as the Encoder goes, I get very good results when encoding to AC3, and plays fine with my standalone DVD players, including the PS2 which is usually picky with DVD's.

I had every intention of buying it for TDA until i found out that you needed an internet connection to make it work. Then TMPGEnc 3.0 came out with the same irritation, so i decided to stick with my TMPGEnc 2.5.

I'll give em 50 bucks for the AC3 encoder if they turn off that "Phone-Home-crap".