White Bars in captured video again

[jolphil]

Hi all,
My first post in this forum and it will be a long one..I have a MSI FX5600-VTDR-128 video card with VIVO features..I specifically purchased this card to capture(contains philips capture chip SA7108AE ) from VHS family tapes to DVDs ..Basically home movies..I have been in a running battle to get it capturing correctly..Heres the rub..I have read that NVidia included in it's WDM capture drivers a block
Macrovision feature..I guess to stop the copying of commercial videos..Thats fine, but this feature keeps popping in even on home movies and shows up as a white bar across the screen that comes and goes at random..Thats not good..I am also told since version WDM 1.0.9 this feature is included..The newest version is 2.2.0..White bars and all..
I found and installed version WDM 1.08..It's supposed to work for many users and on mine it does eliminate the white bar problem but it also introduces a drastic Hue shift in the video..
Now to the question(finally)...Is there an answer to this delima or am I stuck with it as is..White bars in the capture or bad color..
This forum is my best hope of ever getting it working properly..
Thanks for reading this and for any tips or suggestions..
jolphil

[thecoalman]

I was able to fix it with a sima go-dvd with the newest drivers or the older driver, but like you said the capture quality isn't as good with the older driver. Other cheaper video enhancers may work as well.

Edit: You can also try adjusting the hue with your capture program.

[jolphil]

Hi there Coalman,
I do have the Sima scc-2 and have tried it, but I find the hue shifting on the sima is very very limited..Almost non existant..The other adjustments
seem to work well and have a good range of control..The problem with the Sima is that when it finds bad video from the VHS tapes(such as tracking noise tape curl or whatever) the Scc-2 just blanks out the picture
alltogether..I'd rather have a bad picture than none at all..I'm considering sending the sima back as useless..I thought this would be their best model, it surely was the most expensive..
The only way to capture at all is to shift the hue as far as I can with something like Pinnacle studio9 or WinDVDcreator..I can just barely get it back when the slider is at the end of its range..
Thanks for you post..That was really fast...
jolphil

[thecoalman]

The model I have is ct-2. I was also using the newest drivers with the MV detection. If there's a difference between the two devices I have no idea. I bought it on a whim to give it a try. It does take care of the white bar though.

[BrainStorm69]

jolphil, did you try the Sima with the newer drivers? The Sima should fix the MV problem even with the newer drivers, which should fix your hue problem.

[jolphil]

Brainstorm69,coalman,
No I did not even know that Sima had drivers..I will check their website to see if it can help..I just sent a EMail to sima complaining but you know how that goes..
Thanks for the suggestions guys...
jolphil

[BrainStorm69]

Brainstorm69,coalman,
No I did not even know that Sima had drivers..I will check their website to see if it can help..I just sent a EMail to sima complaining but you know how that goes..
Thanks for the suggestions guys...
jolphil

The Sima doesn't have drivers. I meant the newer drivers for your video card, which you said don't have the hue problem. If you reinstall those video card drivers, then run the video through your Sima to the card, you should not have problems with the "white box."

[jolphil]

OH!!
I thought you meant the Sima drivers which I found out there are none for my sima scc-2..As to the Video card drivers let me explain...
There are two important drivers..The Nvidia card driver that controlls the performance of the video card itself...Then there is the Nvidia WDM drivers
that deal with the capture features of the card..I have tried both till I am blue in the face...Heres what I discovered on the web because this is somewhat of a common problem..Pressure from RIAA or Hollywood convinced the video card companies to install a patch in the WDM driver
after version 1.0.8..Now there is version 2.2..Since 1.09 and up they put a block in the software to enable Macrovision protection..The problem is that it just dont work for commercial video but home movies as well..It cant seem to tell the difference between some pirated movie or a home video of your children or whatever..A big white bar covers the middle part of the capture randomly..If you install version 1.08 then the white bars are gone but you get a drastic HUE shift that distorts the color..So far its one or the other with no solution..
I am hoping that somone else had this problem and somehow got around it..I dont care a bit about copying movies as there are none I find worth copying but I do want to make my Family Home movies into DVDs..
I hope that explains my delima better..
BTW, The Sima does not help one bit in fact it makes it worse by blanking out the video every bit of noise in the VHS tape..Some of my video tapes are over 20 years old and have various problems such as tracking noise and tape curl noise..
Thanks for posting..
jolphil

[thecoalman]

I'll try to be as clear as I can. The Sima Go-DVD Model # CT-2 that I have removes the white bar for me when using the newest WDM drivers (v2.20 or whatever it is now) for the capture card.

[TheFamilyMan]

Thanks for this post. Seems like nVidia and AGP manufacturers conspired to fix the 1.08 driver macrovision loophole in their most recent products, what a drag !!!!!

I used the 1.08 driver to solve the "white bar" I've had with capturing some of my home videos. Fortunately for me, I use an ancient GeForce4 4200Ti with a phillips video chip that does not have any hue shift problem. Good Luck!!!!

[thecoalman]

Thanks for this post. Seems like nVidia and AGP manufacturers conspired to fix the 1.08 driver macrovision loophole in their most recent products,

Oooooh a conspiracy. I think that's taking it a little far. Probably more like the MPAA "nudging" them into adding it. I doubt Nvidia came up with the idea, why would they want to cripple something unless they had too. Unfortunatley it affects capturing some home videos which it shouldn't..... Always the small guy getting the shaft.

[BrainStorm69]

OH!!
Pressure from RIAA or Hollywood convinced the video card companies to install a patch in the WDM driver after version 1.0.8..Now there is version 2.2..Since 1.09 and up they put a block in the software to enable Macrovision protection...

[snip]

BTW, The Sima does not help one bit in fact it makes it worse by blanking out the video every bit of noise in the VHS tape..Some of my video tapes are over 20 years old and have various problems such as tracking noise and tape curl noise..
Thanks for posting..
jolphil

I will try to be clear also. My SIMA SCC-1 will stop the problem on my ATI card even if I use the ATI drivers that cause problems when they detect (or think they detect -- in the case of home videos) macrovision.

So my question to you is...have you tried the nVidia WDM 2.2 drivers with the SIMA SCC-2 connected in between your source video and the capture card?

That should work to give you the correct hue (since the 2.2 WDM drivers don't cause the hue shift) and should eliminate the white band (since the SIMA should be taking care of that).

If that doesn't work, then the SIMA SCC-2 does NOT work like the SCC-1 does to eliminate MV. But it is my understanding that the SCC-2 should eliminate MV just like the SCC-1 (although I don't have an SCC-2 to know for sure).

[jolphil]

First, I want to thank you guys for batting this around..You cannot believe how many other forums would not touch it..

So my question to you is...have you tried the nVidia WDM 2.2 drivers with the SIMA SCC-2 connected in between your source video and the capture card?

Yes I have tried the WDM 2.2 with the Sims scc2 device..There is no Hue shift with the 2.2 and has excellent color but the sima burps (actually) blanks out the video every time the VHS tape has noise in it..

Coalman: I am in the process of trying to return the SCC2 ...We will see how that goes
Thanks again guys for all your help..
jolphil[/quote]

[Capmaster]

First, I want to thank you guys for batting this around..You cannot believe how many other forums would not touch it..

Other forums try very hard to be like Videohelp.com, but they're just not equipped. Videohelp.com is where the video "big kids" play

[jolphil]

Question for the Coalman,
When your CT-2 hits a bad(noise) video spot, what does it do to the capture..
Does it blank out the video like the Scc2 does or allow it to pass thru?
The problem with choosing these devices is you see the specs but it's the hidden gotchas( ok thats not a word but you know what I mean)..
jolphil

edit
PS Greeting to capmaster from Albuquerque..Spent many days there back in the 60's and early 70's on business...

[BrainStorm69]

First, I want to thank you guys for batting this around..You cannot believe how many other forums would not touch it..

Yes I have tried the WDM 2.2 with the Sims scc2 device..There is no Hue shift with the 2.2 and has excellent color but the sima burps (actually) blanks out the video every time the VHS tape has noise in it..

Thanks again guys for all your help..
jolphil

jolphil, you're welcome.

Hmmmm....seems strange that the SCC-2 would blank out from video noise. I can tell you that I've never had any such trouble with my SCC-1. You might try checking e-bay for a used SCC-1. They can usually be had for about $50. They have the same sort of handles that the SCC-2 does, only with analog controls, but the SCC-1 also only has one input and one output.

[jolphil]

[quoteHmmmm....seems strange that the SCC-2 would blank out from video noise. I can tell you that I've never had any such trouble with my SCC-1. You might try checking e-bay for a used SCC-1. They can usually be had for about $50. They have the same sort of handles that the SCC-2 does, only with analog controls. The SCC-1 also only has one input and one output.
]
Thats a good thought but I have not seen any scc-1's around but worth another look for a used one.. E bay would be a good start..I take it that your scc-1 does not blank out the video ? I did not need the four inputs of the scc-2 anyway..jolphil[/quote]

[BrainStorm69]

That is correct, my scc-1 does not blank out any video. You might have to wait a few days watching for one on ebay. I just looked and there aren't any out there right now. Just do a search for "SIMA Color Corrector." Also, if you'd rather have one new, Amazon sells them for about $90 (but they are waiting for their stock to be replenished.

[jolphil]

Thanks,
I just was at Ebay..
Now to work..Have a great day..
jolphil

[thecoalman]

Question for the Coalman,
When your CT-2 hits a bad(noise) video spot, what does it do to the capture..
...

Couldn't tell you, the tape I tested it with played perfectly on a VCR to TV connection. The only trouble I had during capture was the white screen that would appear here and there. It usually didn't last that long, maybe 10 seconds out of 40 or 50 seconds of video.

Edit: BTW if money is not a problem look into getting a TBC. I don't have one but I have read they work wonders sometimes.

[Capmaster]

Question for the Coalman,
When your CT-2 hits a bad(noise) video spot, what does it do to the capture..
Does it blank out the video like the Scc2 does or allow it to pass thru?
The problem with choosing these devices is you see the specs but it's the hidden gotchas( ok thats not a word but you know what I mean)..
jolphil

edit
PS Greeting to capmaster from Albuquerque..Spent many days there back in the 60's and early 70's on business...

Thank you

Then you had the opportunity to sample "New Mexican Cuisine" Waaaaay different than "Mexican" food you find in Los Angeles, San Diego or other places. There's nothing like it

[BrainStorm69]

FYI...there are now a couple of Sima SCC-1s on ebay.

[jolphil]

Coalman,

Couldn't tell you, the tape I tested it with played perfectly on a VCR to TV connection. The only trouble I had during capture was the white screen that would appear here and there. It usually didn't last that long, maybe 10 seconds out of 40 or 50 seconds of video.

If you did not have the white screen on the vcr tape but had a white screen in the capture for about 10 seconds or so it May be caused by Macrovision..In my case it's a huge White Horizontal Bar that pops in and out..in a longer video it completely ruins the movie..
jolphil[/quote]

[thecoalman]

I'm aware of what the problem is, at least IMO....... www.nepadigital.com/mv Nvidia VIVO cards are not the only ones.

[jolphil]

Yep,
Thats why I commented about it..The sima GoDVD did not seem to help the problem..Like your link says, it can be triggered by noise even when it's not a commercial tape..Other than using the old WDM driver I dont know of a solution..Looks like Hollywood has won this round..
jolphil
PS this is what my MV looks like ?? Edit, Guess I did not get the jpeg to attach..sorry..try again
Edit again..