29.97 NTSC DVD-rip --> 25fps PAL SVCD... possible? how?

[DRP]

I am a self-proclaimed legend at converting AVI to SVCD, so I'm no newbie at this, but one thing I've never been able to figure out how to do is convert a 29.97fps ripped DVD direct to PAL SVCD.

I use DVD2AVI which works very well indeed when going from PAL DVD to PAL SVCD but how can I do the same incorporating an IVTC + 104.2709% speed up for NTSC DVD to PAL SVCD?

At present, the only way I can successfully do this is to convert the NTSC DVD to AVI using AutoGK or Dr. DivX which does the IVTC for me and then speed that AVI up using AVIFrate and then convert it to SVCD in TMPGEnc to make the PAL SVCD. That works obviously but it's less than ideal because of the extra unnecessary lossy compression step to the intermediate AVI.

How can I do this? Is it possible to go direct from NTSC DVD to PAL SVCD in only one lossy re-encoding step?

I know that it would be preferable to maintain it in NTSC but I can't do that because my tele is an old one that is PAL only and getting the DVD player to convert to PAL on-the-fly is not ideal because it can't do this without producing a slightly jerky playback because of the one duplicated frame it creates each second. Watchable I agree, but not perfect like it would be if I could convert it to PAL.

I know all about the sound issues and I have a good handle on that, so please don't bother about the sound issues. I'm only interested in how to convert the video stream from NTSC DVD to PAL SVCD in one lossy step.

Thanks

[adam]

The vast majority of commercial NTSC DVDs are stored at 23.976fps. To verify that this is the case with yours, preview it in dvd2avi. Set the start point somewhere in the movie, beyond the opening credits. If it reports FILM then it is stored as 23.976fps. So enable the forced film option and create your d2v file. This gives you the same result as if you performed an IVTC on a 29.97fps NTSC source.

Now simply speed up the video and audio to 25fps. For audio just use BeSweet. It has a built in NTSCfilm (23.976fps) to PAL conversion option. For video use any mpeg encoder and simply set the output to 25fps and use a PAL compliant output resolution. Make sure that you also set the encoder to actually change the speed of your video rather and not just repeat frames. For instance, in TMPGEnc you'd need to enable the "do not framerate conversion" filter on the advanced tab to accomplish this.

[lordsmurf]

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/index.html#Tools

[DRP]

Thank you both adam and blueman. Much appreciated.

Cheers.

[XL3/\/7]

Try DVD2SVCD. It converts DVD, avi to DVD, SVCD, VCD and it has an NTSC to Pal option

[DRP]

The vast majority of commercial NTSC DVDs are stored at 23.976fps. To verify that this is the case with yours, preview it in dvd2avi. Set the start point somewhere in the movie, beyond the opening credits. If it reports FILM then it is stored as 23.976fps. So enable the forced film option and create your d2v file. This gives you the same result as if you performed an IVTC on a 29.97fps NTSC source.

Okay, done this now and it isn't being reported as FILM. It does say 23.976fps but NTSC not FILM. Is there a way to convert this then or does it mean the original was created without a telecine process being used and is therefore not going to repond terribly well to an IVTC?

[DRP]

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/index.html#Tools

Been trying these instructions but keep coming across an AVS warning along the lines of "SmoothDeinterlacer.dll is not an AVSynth 2.5 plugin"

Any idea where one can get a copy of SmoothDeinterlacer.dll that does work with AVS 2.5?

[DRP]

I need an AviSynth scripting expert to help me out I think. I'm trying to follow this guide: http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/index.html#NTSCVideoDVD2PALDVD but I keep getting thwarted at every turn.

This is the script I'm using as it stands at the moment:

LoadPlugin("dgdecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Temp\test.d2v")
SeparateFields()
Weave()
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
ConvertToYUY2()
ConvertFPS(50) # or ChangeFPS(50)
LanczosResize(720,576)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()
ConvertToRGB()

but I get getting errors on line 9 (the LanczosResize line) which if I then remark out I get an error that says SmoothDeinterlace only works on RGB32 and YUY2 formats.

Whats wrong?

I'm using AviSynth as installed by AutoGK v1.48. DGdecode & DVD2AVI are also the versions that come with AutoGK v1.48. The SmoothInterlacer DLL is the AviSynth 2.5 version I found on doom9 somewhere.

[gastorgrab]

I use something a little simpler;

---------------
loadplugin ("C:\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
# loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source ("C:\Temp\Example.d2v",cpu=6)
#
# Convert 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps
#
Telecide (order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate ()
#
LumaFilter (+10,1.1)
#
YV12toRGB24 ()
FlipVertical ()
---------------

And of course just plop a "AssumeFPS(25)" somewhere near the end.

This is the template i use with DGDecode and is just a starting point.

Once the video is 23.976 fps (Progressive) you can resize to your hearts content.

[DRP]

I keep getting 'can't open source file or obsolete d2v file'.

I am creating the d2v with DVD2AVIdg v1.3.0 and it does open just fine directly in TMPGEnc.

[gastorgrab]

The instructions in the DGMPGDec package tell you to keep "DGDecode.dll" in the same directory as "DGIndex.exe".

From the Quickstart.html in the DGMPGDec package;

You are going to use DGIndex.exe and DGDecode.dll from the DGMPGDec package, so extract them from the ZIP file and put them together in a directory.

(I'm using the latest version, you can find QuickStart.html in the later versions)

Here's yours:
LoadPlugin("dgdecode.dll")

Here's Mine:
loadplugin ("C:\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")

AviSynth 2.5 normally doesn't require the path for the plugin so the line;
# loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Decomb521.dll"),
has a "# " in front of it, and is for reference only.

In my experience, "DGDecode.dll" seems to be the exception to the rule. It doesn't get put in the plugin directory, and therefore needs the path included.

Your script must be using the older plugin to process the line;
MPEG2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Temp\test.d2v"),
a plugin that resides in your "C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins" directory. (maybe "MPEG2Dec3.dll")

[DRP]

Okay, played around with the script a bit and here's what I've got now:

loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
# loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AutoGK\AviSynth\plugins\Decomb511.dll")
mpeg2source ("C:\Documents and Settings\Temp\The Hire\test.d2v",cpu=6)
# Convert 29.97 fps to 23.976 fps
Telecide (order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate ()
#
LumaFilter (+10,1.1)
#
YV12toRGB24 ()
FlipVertical ()
AssumeFPS(25)


Error remains as before though. Help.

[gastorgrab]

# loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AutoGK\AviSynth\plugins\Decomb511.dll")

Well, if your going to try this route you'll need the plugin that goes with it.
http://neuron2.net/decomb/decomb521.zip (to your plugin directory)
(New version) Its from the author of DGMPGDec.

otherwise the instructions:

Telecide (order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate ()

won't mean a thing.

Now the error you speak of

I keep getting 'can't open source file or obsolete d2v file

kinda sounds like you created a D2V with one version of DGMPGDec and trying to decode with another. According to the "D2V_Format_v06.txt" included in the package, the D2V format is on its 6th revision (on my version).

I use DVD2AVI which works very well indeed when going from PAL DVD to PAL SVCD.

A D2V file created with DVD2AVI may not work properly if decoded with "DGDecode.dll". A D2V file created with a particular level of DGMPGDEc may not decode properly with a different level of "DGDecode.dll"

The package is intended to work as a matched-set! Create your D2V file with DGDecode.exe, and Decode it with DGDecode.dll.

-----trimmed down----------

loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
# loadplugin ("C:\Program Files\AutoGK\AviSynth\plugins\Decomb521.dll")
mpeg2source ("C:\Documents and Settings\Temp\The Hire\test.d2v",cpu=6)
Telecide (order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate ()
LanczosResize (720,576)
YV12toRGB24 ()
FlipVertical ()
AssumeFPS(25)

[DRP]

Well, if your going to try this route you'll need the plugin that goes with it.
http://neuron2.net/decomb/decomb521.zip (to your plugin directory)
(New version) Its from the author of DGMPGDec.

Okay, done that. Thanks for that link, I was wondering where you got that version number from.

Now the error you speak of

I keep getting 'can't open source file or obsolete d2v file

kinda sounds like you created a D2V with one version of DGMPGDec and trying to decode with another. According to the "D2V_Format_v06.txt" included in the package, the D2V format is on its 6th revision (on my version).

I use DVD2AVI which works very well indeed when going from PAL DVD to PAL SVCD.

A D2V file created with DVD2AVI may not work properly if decoded with "DGDecode.dll". A D2V file created with a particular level of DGMPGDEc may not decode properly with a different level of "DGDecode.dll"

The package is intended to work as a matched-set! Create your D2V file with DGDecode.exe, and Decode it with DGDecode.dll.

That all sounds quite logical. Trouble is I can't find this DGDecode.exe program you speak of to make my d2v file with. I have two programs installed afa I know that I can make d2v files with. One is the original v1.77.3 of DVD2AVI and the other is the bugfixed version by Donald Graft called DVD2AVIdg v1.3.0 which is installed as part and parcel of the AutoGK package. This is the one I am using and TMPGEnc opens the d2v files just fine.

I have also downloaded the latest package called dgmpgdec1012a.zip but I can't see inside that there's an equivalent DVD2AVI kinda program (unless it's changed name significantly). In any case there certainly isn't a program called DGDecode.exe in there. Where do I get that?

[DRP]

My apologies. I see now that the former programs DVD2AVI and DVD2AVIdg are now renamed to DGIndex. It all gets very confusing when they not only change the version numbers but the whole program name as well What a nightmare!

Anyway, it now all seems to be working and working very well I must say! I haven't finished my first test encode yet but from the preview I can already see there aren't any combed interlaced frames like there were before so it's a great improvement on what I was able to get before.

Thank you very much for your time and patience to help me out. I really appreciate it.

[DRP]

Now that the script is working I have a couple of questions:

1) I'm converting direct to SVCD so I don't think I really need the resize line. Can I simply # out the resize line and let TMPGEnc do the resize to 480x576 itself instead direct from the 720x480 NTSC original? Otherwise it's being resized twice isn't it? Once from 720x480 -> 720x576 and then again from 720x576 -> 480x576 by TMPGEnc during the transcode. Would it be better to just do the lanczos resize directly to 480x576 in the AVS?

2) Where can I read up on what the decimate, telecide etc. lines do? I'm curious to find out what they are actually doing so I can better understand what's going on under the bonnet so to speak.

3) Why isn't the Decomb521.dll plugin line required? It's # out in the final version of the script you've given me. Why did I need to update my version of this plugin when it apparently isn't being used?

[gastorgrab]

I'm converting direct to SVCD so I don't think I really need the resize line.

Sorry, i just pasted it in from one of your previous posts. I should have considered your destination.

Can I simply # out the resize line and let TMPGEnc do the resize to 480x576 itself instead direct from the 720x480 NTSC original?

Yup, or just delete it.

Would it be better to just do the lanczos resize directly to 480x576 in the AVS?

AviSynth is usually considered faster but you may create some confusion for yourself. You might have to play with the source aspect ratio settings in TMPGEnc to get it to display correctly in the preview window.

Where can I read up on what the decimate, telecide etc. lines do?

If your talking about the syntax of this partucular filter then you should look in the documentation that came with the Decomb521 filter.

If your talking about what the filter does than i'd rather give you the link:
Telecine explained and Video Basics

This was a hard lesson for me, and i'm still not sure i've got it all straight.

Overall, the lines;
----------
Telecide (order=1,guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate ()
----------
take 29.97 fps interlaced and convert to 23.976 fps progressive. Its rebuilding the original material which was was reported by you to be 23.976 fps in DVD2AVI.

Why isn't the Decomb521.dll plugin line required?

AviSynth 2.5 doesn't require "loadplugin" when the plugin in question is in its (AviSynths) plugin directory. I put it there for my own reference. (Different "Decomb" plugins occasionally use different syntax)

Consider every plugin in this directory to be "In AviSynth's Tool-belt".
AviSynth can use other tools but you must tell it where they are.

This "Decomb521" as a i said before is from the author of DGMPGDec, and the latest version of DGDecode you find at this site;
http://neuron2.net/fixd2v/decodefix.html

[DRP]

If your talking about the syntax of this partucular filter then you should look in the documentation that came with the Decomb521 filter.

Excellent thanks. Done that and it's all good.

Can I annoy you with one more question? I'm trying to find out where you got the YV12toRGB24 (), FlipVertical () & AssumeFPS(25) lines from.

Just taking the first one, I found in the standard AVS documentation that TMPGEnc requires RGB24 colour as input, so that much I understand but how do you know the original colour system to be processed is YV12 and where do these commands come from? I can't find them in the standard AVS documentation.

[DRP]

Actually, don't worry about it. After much searching I've finally found the documentation for these commands now, so I'll just sit here quietly and read on about them.

[gastorgrab]

I'm trying to find out where you got the YV12toRGB24 (), FlipVertical () & AssumeFPS(25) lines from.

If you downloaded the new DGMPGDec you'll find the document "DGDecode.html" inside. It explains YV12to RGB, and FlipVertical.

AssumeFPS is standard AviSynth.

[gastorgrab]

Oops, sorry (hit the wrong button)