VHS to DVD & Macrovision

[char1iecha1k]

Hi, first of all I live in the UK.

I am relatively new to video editing, and I have been looking to buy some hardware to convert VHS to DVD probably by using a PVR which will also allow me to view TV on my PC and capture live broadcasts.

Now I have been looking about these forums and I have come across sooo many posts regarding similar problems (ie VHS-DVD and Macrovision) but with subtle differences. I would like an authorative answer to some of these questions:

If I use a PVR such as the Hauppauge PVR TV 250/350 will I get problems with Macrovision when capturing from my VHS player whilst playing a tape or viewing a broadcast or simply capturing straight from the aerial?

Does Macrovision protect both pre-recorded and recorded tapes, I presume that it doesnt effect home movies?

Can you get software TBCs and are they effective if so where?

Can you get cheap TBCs simply to remove macrovision, again where (in UK)

On my list of cards to buy are

Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-250or350
Pinnacle PCTV Delux
Compro Video Mate Live

I have read mixed reviews about all of them. I want to be able to record/view from aerial (via coax) or s-video / scart from VCR into mpeg2 format. Have you any suggestions about these products which is best for quality features etc and are any other products worth mentioning.

Well thats all for now, thanks for your time, hopefully I will be able to work all this out and find exactly what I need.

[FOO]

There's no way I know of to remove MV in software.
It's theoretically possible on some hardware to disable
the AGC , but:

1. It's there for a reason
2. You'd have to set the gain somehow
3. It's hard to come up with enough info on the hardware/software
to figure out what to do. (with ATI especially)

Some of the external DV gadgets do it , however. Canopus , etc

[thecoalman]

I presume that it doesnt effect home movies?

Yes it can, I had it do it to me on two seperate cards. The reason I state it was macrovision is because the tape would capture fine when the MV detection wasn't present. Matter of the card I'm using now won't capture some of my older VHS home recordings with the newest driver. Using a older driver that has no MV detection it will.

As it was explained to me a few times older tapes have weak or bad signals. The cards interperet this as MV.

Using a TBC or other video enhancing devices can fix this.

[char1iecha1k]

Ok perhapsI forget about the VHS to DVD part for now, I may come across a reasonable TBC later.

So that leaves the choice of hardware what I want to do is record signal from vcr dvd aerial etc and use it like a PVR as I said above I have come across 3 choices (having said that there is this Terratec Cinergy that I heared mention on this forum, but I cant find anyone selling it in the UK).

Any advice on the choice of hardware and I would be gratefull.

I know with the Canopus range they have inbuilt TBC, but I believe they record in DV format. Is it easy to get from DV to DVD? I understand it to be a lot easier to get from mpeg to DVD.

Which has a higher image quality the DV format or mpeg2?

[nelson133]

DV format is about 13 gig per hour of video, mpg2 is 2+ gig per hour. This means that the mpg is much more compressed. Dv is in avi format which can be authored and/or manipulated in a number of ways, whereas mpg2 is more difficult to edit.
Now the end result of avi files is to convert them to mpg2 so that they can be authored into dvds, and some programs and/or hardware can do mpg on the fly, so direct mpg2 is a shorter process. However, your results may not be as good, and you may have less control over the final product. Nyah Levi

[char1iecha1k]

So encoding directly to DV is similar to directly encoding in divx for example in that they encode to an avi format. So which is better divx or dv?

I dont really need the output to be in avi, mpeg2 will do as the most amount of editing i will be doing is cutting out the ads.,

[thecoalman]

So encoding directly to DV is similar to directly encoding in divx for example in that they encode to an avi format. So which is better divx or dv?

Encoding to Divx is like encoding to MPG, they are both highly compressed formats so you can fit a lot of footage on a DVD. The problem with Divx is that a lot of DVD players don't support the divx format. See the DVD players link to the left.

Either one of these can be made from a AVI containing DV which is also a compressed format but not as much as MPG or Divx. The thing to understand about AVI is that it is just a container and can contain many types of video.

If you wish to make a video that can be burned directlly to disc that will not need to be renecoded and only have the commercials edited out etc. your best bet is getting a card that encodes the video directly to DVD compliant MPG. I'm not positive but I don't think the canopus does that. You would need to encode it to MPG after you captured it. I'd suggest one but I have not seen a lot of comparisons, results vary with the cards.

[yoda313]

Hello,

char1iecha1k-If I use a PVR such as the Hauppauge PVR TV 250/350 will I get problems with Macrovision when capturing from my VHS player whilst playing a tape or viewing a broadcast or simply capturing straight from the aerial?

Good news, NO!! I have the wintv pvr250 and it REMOVES Macrovision! I have successfully backed up VHS and DVD through the card all without any macro blurs. It's pretty nice to go straight to the card without an intervention. It helps preserve the quality, ie no degredation (less transferring).

I've done it this way for vhs with no problems. I even did dvd dubs to backup to vcd (before I got my dvd burner). It was quicker than processing them since it was a real time conversion.

Kevin
P.S. The wintv pvr 250 encodes directly to mpeg. If you choose a dvd mode you will get a dvd compliant mpeg file ready for any authoring program.

[char1iecha1k]

OK I think what coalman is saying makes sense I will go straight to mpeg using a PVR which brings up the next question what should i get?

I have read somewhere that with these cards you a pretty much tied to using the manufacturers own capturing software is this true? And will the quality vary depending on what software you use

[yoda313]

Hello,
If you get an avi capture card you should be able to use any capture software. The hauppage wintvpvr 250 card will ONLY work with its own software (if the card uses the newest windows capture drivers it SHOULD work with any capture software).

As far as I know the recording software shouldn't affect quality. It's the capabilities of the card that's important. Of course, if the software your using can't use the highest capture setting then it won't look as good as ones that do.
Kevin

[char1iecha1k]

Yoda,

Sorry about ignoring you, I started to write a reply to coalman, left pc for a while, and posted it when I got back which meant I completely missed your post :/

Anyhow thanks for the post, is the Hauppauge software any good? Is it designed for novices (like Nero Express) or is it very customisable (like Nero)

Oh and I presume that the if PVR 250 removes MV. then so will the 350.

Is it not worth getting the 350 over the 250 (I believe the only difference is the ability to hardware decode. I have a GF4 TI4600 will that provide hardware decoding, if so will it be better or worso than what i would get with the 350?

[yoda313]

Hello,
No problem. The 350 ALSO has a radio tuner built in (with program recording software- don't know if it records to wav only or to mp3). Yes the 350 SHOULD also remove macrovision. I imagine both have the same basic configuration.

The software is decent. It has several presets for dvd, svcd, and vcd. It can do color change and some other stuff. It's probably not as customizable as other avi based cards. It's pretty good and does have a net based option for recording shows.

Kevin
P.S. The radio tuner needs a radio attena, natch.
[/u]

[thecoalman]

Another suggestion for you if your looking for something cheap. Leadtek TV2000XP deluxe. $50.00 has tv/fm tuner, remote, bunch of software, antenae. Probably the best deal your going to find if great quality isn't a issue, and it will do everthing you want including ignoring the MV.

[char1iecha1k]

There is no hardware encoder on the leadtek, does that mean it will record to avi. At what point does the difference between the Leadtek and the Hauppauge become noticable, ie what medium when recorded by either card will look worse compared to the other.

Thanks

[thecoalman]

It will record to the following formats/presets, most can be adjusted to your liking. MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4/WMV/VCD/DVD or AVI. There is even a burn to disc feature that will burn the video right to disc as your capturing, I haven't used it so I don't know how well it works. Probably depend on your system.

The software that comes with it is decent too, Video Studio 7 LE and Ulead's older 3d titling program. For the $50.00 price tag you can't go wrong. The only two products I can compare capture quality is the ATI AIW and Leadtek Geforce FX card with VIVO. Both of these cards produce a better capture. The TV2000xp is just a cheap alternative with a lot of goodies, it does produce a decent capture.

[hudsonf]

The hauppage wintvpvr 250 card will ONLY work with its own software

Works great with Beyond TV, SageTV, Ulead Movie Factory 2 SE, Ulead Movie Factory 3 (with a patch), and a few other programs.

[char1iecha1k]

Thanks everyone that replied, Im in a much better position to buy something now, however I am still going to take a little longer to make sure I get exactly what I want/need

[deckard8]

I live in the UK and do VHS to DVD conversions using a cheap Pinnacle Rave TV card (£30) and a cheap Proline Nicam VCR (£50). I link them up using composite output from the scart socket on the vcr and it handles macrovision protected tapes are problem. For the capture/conversion I use Powervcr II with de-interlace turned off via registry hack and I get very acceptable results from good quality video tapes (on a par with original source) and never any a/v sync problems.

[deckard8]

Sorry, bit of a typo error there. I meant to say '... it handles macrovision video tapes - no problem.'

[snafu099]

In post regarding Leadtek

It will record to the following formats/presets, most can be adjusted to your liking. MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4/WMV/VCD/DVD or AVI. There is even a burn to disc feature that will burn the video right to disc as your capturing, I haven't used it so I don't know how well it works. Probably depend on your system.

Yes there is a preset for this but it still records to hdd then auto authors/burns to media disc

The Leadtek Winfast Tv 2000 is a software encoder and like all software encoders quality is dependant on your system specs. Sucked on my amd 1.2 mhz sys but not bad for the $ on new intel 2.4

[yoda313]

Hello,

hudsonf-
yoda313 wrote:
The hauppage wintvpvr 250 card will ONLY work with its own software

Works great with Beyond TV, SageTV, Ulead Movie Factory 2 SE, Ulead Movie Factory 3 (with a patch), and a few other programs.

Really? Once I found it wouldn't work in Roxio basic or Ulead Movie Factory 1 se (that came with the card) I basically gave up. The basic package that came with it - wintv2000 - is sufficient for most tasks. I would be interested in checking out those other programs. Thanks for the post.
Kevin

[char1iecha1k]

deckard8,

I have thought about the cheaper options, but presumably that card is dependant on having a vcr or something to plug it into. Hopefully once I get through all my tapes I can then use it as a secondry vcr which is independant of everthing except a UHF/VHF signal. (The thought of unpluging either my vcr or my pc and moving it so that it will connect to the other is quite painful. Iwould much rather spend a bit more and have the luxury of not having to move pc/vcr)

[char1iecha1k]

I think I might buy a Hauppauge on the strength of this little website

http://www.shspvr.com/

thanks to Poolboy for that

Ok last thing I would like to know (which shall determine which card I buy) is this:

Is the hardware decoder of the PVR350 worth £35/$65 for the extra hardware decoder? and how much better/worse a job will it at decoding than my GF4 TI4600?

[hudsonf]

Once I found it wouldn't work in Roxio basic or Ulead Movie Factory 1 se (that came with the card)

I'm surprised it didn't work with software that came with it. My card came with Ulead Movie Factory 2 SE and works good. My main use for my PVR 250 Card is to capture tv shows with Beyond TV 3 and the only problems I've had was something I did and not the card or the program.

[yoda313]

Hello,

hudsonf-I'm surprised it didn't work with software that came with it. My card came with Ulead Movie Factory 2 SE and works good. My main use for my PVR 250 Card is to capture tv shows with Beyond TV 3 and the only problems I've had was something I did and not the card or the program.

I think I mentioned it does work with the supplied wintv 2000 software. It didn't work with ulead movie factory 1 se (the first edition). I haven't had problems with it other than that. It's a very good card.
Kevin