AMD64 VS. Pentium 4 (urgent help, buying today!!!)

[exxodus]

Alright. So my grandpa decided he wanted me to build him a computer. He wants fast, quite, cool, and $1600 (he doesn't mind, its $400 less than the same dell), and he wants it to last. He has a mass amount of recorded video archives that he wants to dump and burn to DVD (maybe some clip snapping, cutting, audio pasting, basic video editing or more), he also wants to do his banking, and all of the basic office applications.

An AMD64 3000+ and a P4 3.0 GHZ runs about the same price with a motherboard, but I need to know, which one is quiter? Which one runs cooler? Which one will last the longest and be the "higher tech" in the end. Which one will be best for what he is doing?

I figured this for the system.

AMD64 3000+
Motherboard (undecided)
ATX Mid-tower case
DVD Burner (will be discussed in other forum for more responses)
DVD Drive
200 GB HD (raid 2/120 GIG HDs?)
1 GB 400 MHZ DDR Kingston sticks (2)
This for analog capture/burning to make it simple.
WinXP Home
19" LCD Flat Screen

I think thats everything, the motherboard will have lan, firewire, and 4 2.0 ports with it. The total for that comes to about $1,400 (the LCD is where the price is, and he wants it). I just need ideas for improvement, compare and contrast, which will be the best direction to go.

I appreciate your guy's help, thanks alot .

[IAIHMB]

The new AMDs run cooler, but does he really need 64-bit?

[rallynavvie]

I don't like the A64s. The FX processors are the only 64-bit single procs I like. I would bank on the P4 with HT for people that aren't into computers much since the bonus of HT may be more noticeable to them when trying to run a couple things at once unknowingly. The instruction sets on the Intels are also a little bit better for video than AMDs yet. My suggestion is get a Northwood P4 w/800 FSB and a good 875 chipset board.

[BJ_M]

rallynavvie says the same thing i would ..

[DVD_Ripper]

P4 HT on a ASUS or Foxconn MB

[indolikaa]

Pentium 4 Hyper-Threader on an 800 MHz bus with Dual-Channel DDR.

[stiltman]

I would go with the latest Dell

seriously, I would go with a Dell just because it has 24/7 tech support and has a hell of a warranty...Ask yourself, Am I willing to provide that?? Building computers for friends and family also requires in most cases that you support them. Even if you stated other wise.

I could of built a handy dandy computer for my mom to access email with, but I don't want to support it, so I got her a refurb dell with a good waranty instead

[BJ_M]

these are very good machines for the money (the video card could be upgraded) and have excellent customer support in the USA vs. dell (in india)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=171862&Sku=SYX-P4-036097

[dxj40c]

I haven't had any problem with either Pentium 4 or AMD (haven't tried a 64 bit). Both have done everything I've put to them.

[888888]

AMD, definitely.

[rallynavvie]

Asus P4C800 variants stand out for boards in my memory. What did you end up getting?

[miksu]

AMD is better, if you want best bang for buck. It runs cooler and it's going to be upgradeable. Upgradeability is nice option to have, even if you don't use it, since it doesn't cost anything.

There is nothing sure about Intel's future socket/chipset/case etc. combinations. And reality is, Intel is abandoning its Netburst (P4) architecture in favor of Pentium M.
Hyperthreading may actually get things running slower on certain situations and virtual processor isn't real one.

If you buy AMD, you also get NX-feature against viruses and it'll be enabled with XP SP2. 64bit commands used in Windows are developed by AMD and they are likely to be more effective than Intels implementation (which is just compatible copy, they even cloned AMD errata). Future versions of Windows are 64bit for sure, why buy P4 that can't run 64bit code...

[AlinaVastag84]

Of course AMD is the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And same as other products you don`t see every ten minutes on tv.
I have Windows 64Bit , it`s runing cool, every day more programes appear with support for 64Bit processor.
If you`re looking forward to an investment for future,buy AMD64.
If you want just a name built on money, buy Pentium and start saving money for another big investment next year.

[The village idiot]

Dell and excellent after purchase support Have any of you called them lately? Maybe if you buy the Uber expensive warranty, but not for any of the basic garantees. Maybe try a Gateway for pre made machines, I think their people may still be in the US (not gonna guarantee they speak English though).

[mostin5000]

I cannot decide which is better, is it worth upgrading(?) my P4 chip for an AMD 64bit one ?

My P4 spec:
3.0ghz HT
512kb cache
800fsb

to a (for example)

AMD 64bit 3000
2.0ghz
512kb cache
FSB speed? don't know?


I wanna be able to play games like Half-Life 2 with NO slowdown, and also encode with such programs as TMPGENC - which to my knowledge only has HyperThreading support and not 64bit support.

I hear people saying AMD 64 bit performs better but how can it when its only 2.0ghz in comparison to P4 3.0ghz. Does the fact that its 64bit make up for the loss?

Can anybody help this noob with the confusion?

[adam]

Mostin5000: For pc games you'd probably get a much better performance increase by buying a top of the line graphics card. Your current system is pretty damn good already. You can't go by the ghz rating anymore, its become more of an advertising campaign then a real benchmark. It really only means anything when comparing chips within the same group, like a thunderbird to a thunderbird. If you look on various sites they will give you rough comparison charts showing relatively equal performance chips from Intel and AMD.

Like I said, your pc is currently pretty powerful. If you want an increase in gaming performance put the money in a new card. If you want an increase in encoding speed put your money in a faster encoder. TMPGEnc is one of the slowest out there.

I just bought a 64bit processor and its like a whole new world for me. But I'm sure I would say the same if I had gone the Intel route. Pc hardware is just crazy now, I love that Moore guy.

[AlinaVastag84]

Pay atention to the monitor :
LCD only for OFFICE aplications.
If you want to watch some movies & play some games you MUST buy a normal 21" monitor (cheaper than 17"LCD) witch will give you most satisfaction.
Any real gamer knows you cannot play a decent game on a LCD...
For a movie there`s another problem: Only 1 guy can see the movie( the one sitting right in front of the monitor), the others in the right & left won`t see sheat...

[808smokey]

AMD64 get my vote

Do you really need it today? No but in a year or two? Most likely

Dell, gateway and compaq are junk, no offense
Crap mobo, memory, PS... everything but the processor.
That's why they have 24 hour support.

I want to buy something and not worry about... Will it work today or am I going to be on the phone all day..?? Whoopty Friggin doooo!!!! if they have 24 hour support. I just want it to work. I fixed a ladies 3 month old P4 Dell after she spent an afternoon with the 24hour support line and they couldn't fix it. How did I fix it? I ran the super secret program no one knows about............... Windows Scandisk
I fixed it in less than 10 minutes. I didn't even charge her.

You pay for what you get, you pay crap you get crap

Just my .02¢

[BJ_M]

Pay atention to the monitor :
LCD only for OFFICE aplications.
If you want to watch some movies & play some games you MUST buy a normal 21" monitor (cheaper than 17"LCD) witch will give you most satisfaction.
Any real gamer knows you cannot play a decent game on a LCD...
For a movie there`s another problem: Only 1 guy can see the movie( the one sitting right in front of the monitor), the others in the right & left won`t see sheat...

depends on what LCD monitor you have -- i use mine for video work jsut fine... and it has a very wide field of view also ...

[rallynavvie]

BTW folks:
AMD A64 3000 = $210 USD
Intel Northwood P4 3.06/800/512 = $205 USD

No more "bang for your buck" comparisons please. Until apps become 64-bit native the 64-bit instructions aren't giving you much. The reason they perform slightly better than 32-bit chips is usually because of the platform and the onboard memory controllers. I don't even think A64s have onboard memory controllers, only the Opterons do? The bus speeds of the Intels are still a big seller.

The 64-bit consumer Intels are out in the form of the Nocona Xeons. They have 64-bit instructions on chip. They were released at the same price as their equal speed 533 FSB 32-bit counterparts had been. If that's any indication of what Intel is doing then when the 64-bit Pentiums come out they will be just as affordable as their AMD equivalent. They still need some work though, the Noconas are having their problems right now.

As for the HT vs. Pentium M thing they're aiming at using both. M tech scales the processor to help both voltages and heat. They're working on a way to scale HT in a similar way so that if only one app is running it can use almost all the processor, but when another requires juice it will scale down and allow more access to that.

Right now these are pretty close to equal. I don't trust the cheap implementation of 64-bit instructions included on the A64s as opposed to the optimizations of the Opterons or FX processors. Neither am I happy with Intels venture to 64-bit.

Either way the more important change is AGP to PCI-E. Forget all this 32/64-bit BS. Your video card is often more expensive than the processors you put in so I'd be more concerned with looking to the future of graphics interface.

[kazzer]

Pay atention to the monitor :
LCD only for OFFICE aplications.
If you want to watch some movies & play some games you MUST buy a normal 21" monitor (cheaper than 17"LCD) witch will give you most satisfaction.
Any real gamer knows you cannot play a decent game on a LCD...
For a movie there`s another problem: Only 1 guy can see the movie( the one sitting right in front of the monitor), the others in the right & left won`t see sheat...

Why is LCD not suitable for games?

Thanks.

[SaSi]

Pay atention to the monitor :
LCD only for OFFICE aplications.
If you want to watch some movies & play some games you MUST buy a normal 21" monitor (cheaper than 17"LCD) witch will give you most satisfaction.
Any real gamer knows you cannot play a decent game on a LCD...
For a movie there`s another problem: Only 1 guy can see the movie( the one sitting right in front of the monitor), the others in the right & left won`t see sheat...

Why is LCD not suitable for games?

Thanks.

Many cheap LCD monitors are slow in response to changing illumination of each pixel. This cuses a general blurr effect which get's in the way.

Even cheaper LCDs have a narrow angle of view. Only looking directly vertical to the monitor you get a good picture. Otherwise the colours are distorted. Try any notebook screen and you will see this effect to a smaller or larger extent. (not the very expensive very new models, though).

Another irritating "feature" of LCDs is that they only display properly in their "native" resolution. Either 1024x768 or 1440x 960 (or something). If you need a different resolution (say 800x600 because this is as much as your VGA or CPU can handle a demanding game) picture quality becomes a mess since the monitor tries to interpolate the 800x600 video feed to 1024x768 on the fly.

[miksu]

Price maybe about same for AMD or Intel, but AMD seems to be generally faster, if you look at benchmarks, it doesn't matter, which benchmark you choose.

Intel Xeon isn't exactly consumer product, it requires rather pricy mobo. And even processor itself is expensive.

First generation graphic cards for PCI-E are more or less like engineering samples and development versions. They don't even have full-duplex bus, it's just half. Same thing likely with first generation PCI-chipsets, more or less development pieces. Get second generation, when flaws and bugs are fixed. nVidia is even using AGP-PCIE bridge in it's first generation PCI-E solutions. Fact is, AGP is not really bottleneck.

All 64bit Athlons have integrated memory controller. They also have better bus than Intel does, since they use 1GHz HyperTransport.

Of course, if you buy Intel, you get longer pipeline and more heat But those things are not generally considered as advantage...

[Cobra]

LCD only for OFFICE aplications.
If you want to watch some movies & play some games you MUST buy a normal 21" monitor

The LCD will be fine. I use my Sharp 17" TFT for gaming and video, and it performs just as well (if not better) than an old CRT monitor.

Also, why the 19" model? It only makes the image bigger - I assume it still runs at 1280 x 1024 like most 17" TFTs do. Why not save the money and use a 17"?

[AlinaVastag84]

Don`t teaze me any more with all your poor expications...
I bought my computer pice by pice from diferent stores, everythink I took was chosed watching them work with the same aplication on diferent comps in my face.
Same with the monitor: I chosed it watching more then 1 hour about 20 diferent monitors (part of them LCD) conected to the same source(you know, like in most shops) same aplication, movie ,game, office aplication... So I falled in love with 21" kinescope monitors...
But my first love is my ATHLON 64Bit 3000 ... Payed 250 $ on it (now it may be cheaper),works cool, on Windows 64 platform...
It`s hard here in Romania to get somthing so cool ! Here most jobs get you 10$/day...