creative people

[mdepiere]

Hi guys

I heard the creative people hang out at this forum. (Well, I hope so anyway)

I'm doing a thesis on the yet unexploited ways of interaction on a cd-rom.

What i mean is: You have technical possibilities like multiple audio streams, multiple video streams, subtitles, things like the "follow the white rabbit" feature in the Matrix DVD's. These things can have an effect on the content. Like choices in storylines, multiple camera angles, and so forth. I'm looking for even more possibilities someone or noone has thought of.

Can you help?

Thanks

[FOO]

Help what ?
This is commonly known as "foggy thought processes" or
"i just sucked down a big reefer"

You got a question , ..... ask it.

[mdepiere]

I'm looking for possibilities that the DVD has but noone has ever thought of. that's it.
I thought that was pretty clear.

[FOO]

If no one has thought of it , you won't get any answers
That's pretty clear too.

[akbor75]

well, i haven't really thought about it yet, but i like the idea of creating cool extra's. (i might not do it myself though, cos it takes too much time...)

my guess is that you have to wait for an event (e.g. preesing the enter button) while themovie still plays.
maybe that can be done via ifo edit. i once read something about creating a multilanguage dvd using dummy menus and changing menu codes etc. that was very tricky stuff. goes way beyond me, for now.

[dphirschler]

Well, a project I am working on, converting my Star Wars laserdisc to DVD, has something interesting. I am making a seperate audio track with just the music, no dialog. So far, it is very interesting and enjoyable to listen to while watching the movie. Not really cutting edge like you seem to be looking for, but I wish more DVDs did this. I think the Looney Tunes DVD has the music only on certain cartoon as well.

How about super closeups at the clock of a button? And not just zooming into the current frame, but a real high res image that you can navigate and examine close up. Basic Instinct anyone?

Music lyics for concert DVDs would be nice. Or how about making the surround act more like a live environment? Have the music mostly up front and crowd noise in the rear channels. Then you really feel part of the audience.

Or product placement. Say you see some sunglasses somebody is wearing. Click on them and get information on buying them. Or the jacket, or the boots, or the car. Or perhaps you want to eat at that restaraunt that they are in. Find out the name of the place.

Maybe seeing a map of the car chase (as if they follow real courses)?


Darryl

[dun4cheap]

Interactive DVD's and CD's are definately possible. Do a search on Dragons Layer and Space Ace. I have the original laser disc and recently purchased the interactive DVDs. These are definate examples of what your looking for.

[Supreme2k]

I too am looking for a way to make money, preferably that no one has patented. That way, I can patent the idea myself and make the afore mentioned money.

If anyone has any ideas, PM me so that others cannot see it and patent it before I can.

[mdepiere]

I hope that you're trying to be ironic. It isn't working. If you want to know the truth look for masterstudents on www.c-md.be you will find my name.

For the rest of the ideas, thanks everyone

[Capmaster]

If no one has thought of it , you won't get any answers
That's pretty clear too.

Good one

[lechtin]

If you want to understand all the possibilities of exploiting the interactivity of DVD, you should look into the advanced ways to author them (unless you will stay at the top-level view without really investigating which of your ideas are actually exploitable with the DVD standard as it is). Advanced authoring methods include the use of scripts, which means you can program the way the content and the user interact. It can get very involved but the possibilities are endless. I'm no expert myself, but you might want to take a look at a book called DVD Demystified. It also has a website (www.DVDDemystified.com) It covers a lot of the DVD standard, but will not get into how to program scripts for DVD. You would need something more specific for that.

Good luck.

[mdepiere]

dvd demystified has been bought, read, analysed and used. Thanks

[rixware]

All kidding aside for a minute, mdepiere, your question is too vague.

First of all, are you truly asking about CD-ROM or did you mean DVD? If you meant DVD, did you mean DVD-ROM or DVD-VIDEO? There is a very big difference in capabilities between these categories. If you're talking about anything but DVD-VIDEO, you're in the wrong place.

With that in mind, all of us who author discs for a living are constrained by the DVD spec, the capabilities of our authoring software, and the needs of the audience and source material. There is certainly room for great creativity, of course, but there are also very specific limitations.

With that in mind, are you looking for innovative ways to author movie discs? Are you looking for new types of extras to include? Are you looking for ways to blend movies and games? Are you looking for ways in which the DVD spec could be expanded to offer new capabilities? Are you looking for capabilities we wish we had but don't? Are you looking for ways in which the current DVD spec can be used to create new types of entertainment? Are you looking for things we wish our authoring software could do? Are you looking for new uses for the DVD spec?

(Hint: Do not reply, "All of the above.")

I think that before we can have the conversation you want to have, we need to know a little bit more about what you're trying to accomplish. What is your central thesis? What is your level of understanding of the DVD spec? Of authoring software? Of player capabilities? Of industry standards? Of audience expectations? Of market requirements?

Fill in some blanks and we'll try to help you out as much as we can.

Rick
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[mdepiere]

Ok, thank you for this post. When i talk about DVD, it's about the DVD video. The things you can play in your stand alone player.
I know about the limitations by authoring tools, I dedicated an entire chapter to this. What i'm trying to prove is that, even with those limits, there are ways to let the viewer get more out of a fictional discourse by including interaction at some points.
I'm not trying to make a whole new type of medium. I'm trying to get as much interactivity out of the existing one to let the audience make a smooth transition from DVD-video, which has a small part of interaction already in it, to Interactive television, which will be a major adjustment for people who are not used to interact in front of their tv screen.

I hope this clarifies a lot

[rixware]

Say more about what you mean by "including interaction at some points" and "Interactive television." Are you talking about story lines which branch according to choices made by the viewer?

In other words, what is the destination like that you are looking for a transition toward?

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[FOO]

Why don't you just DO something instead of talking vaguely about it.

[bdf24]

Ok, thank you for this post. When i talk about DVD, it's about the DVD video. The things you can play in your stand alone player.
I know about the limitations by authoring tools, I dedicated an entire chapter to this. What i'm trying to prove is that, even with those limits, there are ways to let the viewer get more out of a fictional discourse by including interaction at some points.
I'm not trying to make a whole new type of medium. I'm trying to get as much interactivity out of the existing one to let the audience make a smooth transition from DVD-video, which has a small part of interaction already in it, to Interactive television, which will be a major adjustment for people who are not used to interact in front of their tv screen.

I hope this clarifies a lot

I thought the whole idea of all this was for "YOU" to discover new interactive methods with DVD video? Forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems to me your looking for people on this message board to do all the work for you? Does this mean the people on this message board will get all the credit for your final project if you ever create it?

[mdepiere]

People
please stop bashing me

I've done a lot of work on this and i have found numerous new ways to improve the video DVD. I just thought that some of you might be able to help me with even more possibilities.
I'm not trying to steal something.
I'm not trying to capitalize.
I'm just trying to write a paper that is as complete as possible.

If you don't want to help, then don't. just stop badmouthing me, because my intentions are not to freeload of anyone.

[rixware]

Please give us some examples of what your desired world of interactive television is like. (I followed the link you gave above, but most of the material is not in English. So I am unclear about what type of school you attend or what type of degree you may be working on.)

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[mdepiere]

I'm trying to build a bridge between traditional television and dvd by creating an interactive dvd that will ease the public into the idea of interactivity of audiovisual material.

[rixware]

Look, I'm trying to help you out here, but just what the #$%* does "the idea of interactivity of audiovisual material" mean to you? Your question is still too vague.

There's lots of interactivity already going on, depending on how you define it:

- A phone-in program is interactive.
- 60 Minutes answers viewer mail. That's a type of interactivity.
- American Idol, with telephone voting, is interactive.
- America's Funniest Home Videos is interactive (people send in their stuff).
- Survivor is interactive in that people send in videos of themselves to audition to be on the program. Viewers become the show.
- I have a bunch of DVDs with interactive kid's games on them.
- I have a bunch of discs with sing-along crap on them.
- Some movie DVDs have multiple endings available for the choosing.
- The PowerBall lottery could even be called interactive TV because you buy a ticket at the store and the winning numbers appear on the TV.

But if you're envisioning something different, describe it. What is all that stuff about on the web site you linked to? What are you studying? What is the central thesis of your paper? (And pardon me for saying so, but if your thesis is anything like what you're asking here, you're in trouble.)

Frankly, I'm beginning to think you don't have any idea what this means and want us to provide some ideas to help you figure out which direction your paper should go. If this is the case, please say so.

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[mdepiere]

interactivity in my work is
taking a fictional story and improving it by letting the viewers have a choice at some point that alters the viewing experience at different levels.
Wheter it is a change in camera angles, multiple storylines ,...
that kind of stuff.

[FOO]

I think you are an idiot , all mouth and no action.
DO something

[rixware]

With all due respect, mdepiere, your credibility is pretty low. You seem not to know what you're asking about. Either that or you already know the answer you want and just hope someone here will say it.

You're talking about DVD capabilities which are well-documented and widely used. You've said nothing more about the mysterious "interactive television" you're interested in. So far you've said essentially nothing to further the understanding of your question.

Specific questions in this forum will get you specific answers. Vague and confused questions will get you . . . well, just reread a few of the other responses.

I've tried asking questions to help you clarify what you're looking for, but your replies do not clarify anything.

I think that if you want our help, you'll need to post the rough draft of your paper as it stands right now and let us critique it for you. Maybe we'll understand your viewpoint and have ideas on where you can go next. Maybe we'll be able to warn you that it's a bunch of crap and help you fix it before you get a bad grade.

Until then...

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[themichael]

It kind of sounds like he wants a training DVD for WebTV or one of those 'write you own adventure' books (one person DnD).

Interactive TV with clicking on products (sungalsses, food, etc) while looking at content is called AOL.

[muskgrave]

I'm looking for possibilities that the DVD has but noone has ever thought of. that's it.
I thought that was pretty clear.

I'm looking to own a car I've never paid for, can we try that next?

[Arky]

You might like to check out what Zoo Interactive are doing with their DVD Extra product. I spoke to their lead engineer at NAB this year. They have a very impressive product for maximising the interactive possibilities of the DVD Video format. Having said that, their technology is mostly geared towards automating repetitive tasks (and it does do this stunningly well), rather than re-inventing the wheel as far as DVD spec authoring goes. Nevertheless, their implementation of multi-PGC authoring is an awesome sight to behold and I really wish them all the best with their product. It's truly top-notch for creating quiz-style interactive titles. Nice people, too.

http://www.zoo-tech.com/

Other than that, as others have remarked, you really do need to acquaint yourself with the fundamental building blocks of advanced spec-level DVD authoring if you are to have any hope whatsoever of dreaming up anything original. The DVD spec only allows a finite number of operations, and only allows a finite number of physical data structures. It is through building an intimate understanding of these operations and structures that innovative combinations can be devised. Sounds like a lot of hard work to learn all this? Yup. It is. Fun, but hard work. Unless you do so, though, you will not achieve your (vaguely) stated goal. I can confidently state that there is not a single person on this forum, no matter how experienced they are, that does not still have more to learn from the DVD spec.

BTW, if you want to see the DVD spec in all it's glory, you will have to become a member of the DVD forum ($5,000) and then buy the relevant spec book ($500 per copy).

Then you'll need to find an authoring system that lets you do what is contained therein. The cheapest way to do this, believe me, is to get yourself an Apple MAC, DVD Studio Pro, and another utility to compliment it, the combination of which will unleash virtually the entire DVD spec, for less than $3k.


Arky ;o)

[mdepiere]

Thanks to all of you who were helpfull to me. You know who you are.
If you want to read my thesis just mail me at:
depiere_michel@skynet.be

[petar]

Check this too. The keypad lock is cool. The guides are for DVD-Lab but the principle is the same for any authoring tool.
http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/tutorial/index.html

[macleod]

I am sure it has been done, but do something for DVD-Video like those "old" choose your own adventure books, where if you wanted to use your sword, go to page XX and if you want to use your mace, go to XX

The BIG challenge is that the max (from what I remember) chapters (if you go that route) is 99, so it may get a little confusing or not work on longer stories.

What about self help or how to books/videos (but more specific than the current ones).

The issue with interactive is that it has been be channeled so that ALL possibilities are worked out.