Max bitrate is 8Mbps, but Maestro says it's too high !! :-(

[Zetti]

Hi all,

I've runned BITRATE viewer through the M2V stream, it's peak is 7.6 Mbps, average rate is just 4 Mbps;

Two 2.0 AC3 audio streams of 224 kbps;

But Maestro says it's TOO high, higher than 10.8 Mbps

Do I need to adjust any setting in Maestro ?

It's too annoying
BJ ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[flaninacupboard]

what did you encode with? if CCE and dvd compliant is checked it sets the header to say bitrate is 9.8mbps all the way through.

[Zetti]

Actually, I'm reecoding a DVD-R from stand-alone, I imported the M2V stream using DVD Decrypter;

Stand-alone recorders generally achieve high quality using low bitrates;

Zetti

[Zetti]

I've realized that Maestro accuses the "high" bitrate at the very beggining of the compilation process, maybe it indeed has something to do with the header of the file ?

Should I be able to change the header to a lower bitrate just to "fool" Maestro ? How ? is there a sw for that ?

Reencoding of the M2V stream isn't under consideration by any means, I won't degrade itas quality

Thanks,

Zetti

[BJ_M]

restream can change the reported bitrate but most likly there is something in the stream or reported bitrate

[flaninacupboard]

i know there's a tool for it. hang on......

Try DVDPatcher, or restream.

[flaninacupboard]

damn, you posted while i was browsing the tools section! :P

[Zetti]

Thanks boys, I've downloaded DVDPatcher and will try tonight, not at home now;

Anyway, looking at its screenshot, I see an option "Patch MPEG2 file to Bitrate : ".....and so I can choose 3.5 Mbps for example;

It seems to do what I want, I mean, MY QUESTION IS, does it only change the bitrate flag on the file **WITHOUT REENCODING**, or would it REENCODE the m2v stream

If it only changes the bitrate flag, without actually reencoding, should I patch the first header only or the entire file ?

It would be the ideal situation if it would "change" the bitrate flag, without reencoding, so Maestro would be "fooled", I mean, Maestro would read the (new low ) file bitrate and think "ah, yes, now it's OK <g>";

I'd like to fool Maestro :P

Thanks !

Zetti

[flaninacupboard]

been a while since i used, but from memory, yes, it just changes the flag, doesn't re-encode the file. this should succesfully fool maestro, or highlight another problem

[adam]

DVD Patcher can't do anything other than change file header flags. Go ahead and tell it to patch all headers.

[BJ_M]

though - i do believe ... spruce accually does check the true bit rate .. not sure and nothing will be lost if you try the dvdpatcher or restream route

[Zetti]

Hi all again,

Well, I don't have good news

Both Restream and DVDPatcher says that the M2V stream is 9.5Mbps , which isn't actually truth by any means, I wonder how the hell this bitrate header has been wriiten onto the stteam

As I said, Bitrate viewer indicated corectly it's no more than 4 Mbps average, with peak of 7.6 Mbps.

I tried both Restream and DVDPatcher (entire file), Maestro still refuses it
Both sw's indicate the "new" stream with the "new" bitrate (I chose 5 Mbps);

BJ, the point is that, if Spruce will check the "true" bitrate, it'd find 7.6Mbps as peak and no more than 4Mbps as average, NOT 9.5Mbps

I really can't understand it !

Well, any new ideas ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[flaninacupboard]

have you had any other authoring app reject it, or just maestro? can you author with anything else?
if it needs to be maestro then it seems you'll have to re-encode your file, or transcode it with something like dvdshrink.

[SLK001]

If your video has been "pulled down" then Bitrate Viewer will report the bitrates incorrectly (lower than actual). Maestro DOES NOT use the header information, but it actually examines the video to get this information (the header info is just for "informational purposes only" - with DVD COMPLIANCE checked in CCE, you'll always get 9800kbps put in the header).

Maestro will also give you a preview of the bitrate in the video timeline, if you enable this feature. If you do, you will probably find a part where it peaks out.

Your video was encoded at too high of a bit rate. What did you use for your encoding? And what settings did you use?

[Zetti]

The M2V stream has been retrieved from a DVD-R using DVDDecrypter in IFO mode,
The disc was burned in a stand-alone recorder from VHS, there's the typical menu; I've been trying to rebuild it with new menus and a new AC3 stream;

So, CCE isn't involved;
I only know to use Maestro, it's particularly annoying cause I've already built nice menus, etc;

I've done re-authoring from stand alone many times, it's the first time I get this issue;

SLK, I am pretty sure the M2V stream isn't 9,5Mbps, stand-alone recorders don't usually use such a high bitrate; typical bitrates I've found on stand-alone are around 4 to 5 Mbps;

The video is 90 minutes long, indeed I think that such high bitrate won't be possible to be burnt on a single DVD-R even with just one AC3 stream;


Well, I do believe that there's something wrong with its reported bitrate by Restream and DVDPatcher, I do think Bitrate viewer is OK;

I don't know if it has been pulled-down as it has been recorded on stand-alone,any insight on that ?

It's an old home movie, when I was 5 or so (36 now....), original quality isn't already "that" good (from Super 8) so reencoding isn't under consideration;

Thanks to all;

Zetti

[Zetti]

NOW I HAVE SOMETHING VERY WEIRD TO ADD :

As I said, my trials have been to author the "so" rated "9.5Mbps" with 2 AC3 streams, 224 kbps each;

Maestro has been refusing saying total bitrate exceeeds 10.8 Mbps......

As a test, I deleted the 2 AC3 streams and added just one PCM file, which means at the end a much higher bitrate;

1536 kbps >> 448 kbps....

NOW MAESTRO ACCEPTS IT !!!!!!

Confusing, definitely

Any ideas please ?

Thanks to all,

Zetti

[flaninacupboard]

Perhpas your .ac3 files are damaged in some way? try decoding to .wav and re-encoding to .ac3, not ideal but worth trying just to see if that's the problem.

[Zetti]

Thanks flanina,

Actually, I myself have encoded the 2 AC3 streams from WAVE using SoftEncode, that's the sw I have used countless times and Maestro has always accepted its streams;

If I keep just one stream, either of them, it works, but if I add the two of them.....

The original movie has no sound, I am a blues lover and my dad is a Jazz lover,
So, I built 90 minutes of a blues background stream, and also a Jazz one;
The goal is, of course, to allow viewers to choose the desired background music when watching the 90 minutes no-sound movie;

Zetti

[flaninacupboard]

is the blues/jazz stereo? you could do a mono track of each and select left or right on play back. if you still have the .wav files try encoding to .ac3 with ffmpegui or bsweet.

[FulciLives]

Not the solution you seek but since this isn't working out just make your life easy and do two DVD versions each with only one soundtrack.

Keep the blues version for yourself and give your dad the jazz version!

This way you keep your sanity

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Zetti]

Thanks Fulci and flanina,

Fulci, thought about that just a few moments earlier :P

Well, I'll try a reencode and burn on RW media and see how it looks, if there's no visible diference, I'd go with it;


But now the question : what settings are recomended to avoid, at all costs as much as possible, loss of quality ?

As far as I understand, it'd be better to frameserve to TMPGEnc or Procoder Express instead of loading the M2V stream directly into any, right ?

Procoder seems to be better rated than TMPGEnc, but doesn't accept D2V files;

I'm thinking about average of 7 Mbps, min 6 and max 8, what do you think ?

Visible loss of quality isn't part of the game by any means; I know that "technically" speaking it'll exist, but hopefully not noticeable;

Thanks,

Zetti

[FulciLives]

I would use AviSynth with a "light" Convolution3D setting ... maybe the "movieHQ" setting.

As far as I know Procoder doesn't accept AviSynth scripts so that means using TMPGEnc or CCE or Mainconcept.

As for your bitrate settings I thought you said this was a 90 minute long program ... if so then 7000kbps sounds a bit too high plus you are putting two 224kbps soundtracks on it.

All I am saying is double check your target bitrate. Use the bitrate calculator here. It has the ability to account for 2 soundtracks (assuming both are the same bitrate).

Using the bitrate calculator with 90 minutes and 2 soundtracks at 224kbps each I'm comming up with a bitrate of about 6300kbps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Zetti]

Fulci,

Oh, yeah, thanks, I haven't thought about the length;

I'll try 6Mbps as target on a 2-pass VBR;

If using TMPGEnc, I can frameserve from DVD2AVI - it's better than loading the M2V file directly, right ?

But I'd really like to take a lok on Procoder express, but don't know how to frameserve for it;

Thanks,

Zetti

[BJ_M]

Procoder 2 will only take frame serving from vfapiconv wrapped v-dub or dvd2avi project files

[Zetti]

BJ, it doesn't take DVD2AVI

[adam]

Maybe a comma somewhere in that sentence would have made it a little more clear

He meant you can frameserve via VFAPI converter with either a d2v (dvd2avi project file) or a v-dub frameserve file. Make your d2v file and then load it in VFAPI converter and tell it to encode. Load the avi file it creates into Procoder.

[Zetti]

Maybe a comma somewhere in that sentence would have made it a little more clear

He meant you can frameserve via VFAPI converter with either a d2v (dvd2avi project file) or a v-dub frameserve file. Make your d2v file and then load it in VFAPI converter and tell it to encode. Load the avi file it creates into Procoder.

Adam, thanks, loaded D2V file onto it, but when I click "convert", NOTHING HAPPENS !
Isn't it a buggy sw ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[adam]

Been a long time since I used it for any more then testing. Now that I think about it, does it even accept d2v files diretly? I'm thinking no. You have to load it into TMPGenc and save out a project file. Load THAT into VFAPI converter and it should work. Make sure that in TMPGenc you set teh same resolution and everything as your source. You wouldn't want to do something silly like resize down, then resize back up in Procoder.

Its definitely not the most efficient method, source->dvd2avi->TMPGenc->VFAPI->Procoder. But it should work and it shouldn't cause any additionaly quality loss. I can't promise you'll be happy with the encoding speed though.

[flaninacupboard]

would source->avisynth->VFAPI->procoder work?

[adam]

Pretty sure it won't. If you stick AviUtl or Vdub in there after Avisynth I think it would work, but then you still have quite alot of links in your chain.