Too much artifacting seen - please help

[bigkahunaps2]

I hope this is in the right section

I have the following:

Panasonic CT-36HL43
Apex AD-2500 DVD PLAYER PROG. SCAN
(connected via component)

When I watch alot of movies, I notice a huge amount of artifacting especially in dark/black areas. What is causing this? Would a better DVD player fix this issue? Like a Pioneer Elite? Is this dependant on the actual movie? Shoud I mess with black level,etc? I'm not even sure if it's called artifacting. To me, it looks like pixelization.

Thanx

[GKar]

Are these backups or the original DVD's?

[bigkahunaps2]

Well, I've noticed it on both...backups being 1:1 (no compression)


thanx

[GKar]

Have you tried comparing the output on a friends dvd player?

[sacajaweeda]

VirtualDub: Video>Filters>Add>Levels.

[FulciLives]

I had an old APEX that I bought ages ago when that was the only way to get PAL to NTSC conversion.

The quality was terrible even when playing back an original NTSC DVD on my NTSC TV.

The problem was that the DVD player was a hunk o' shit.

Try another DVD player!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[thor300]

I wouldnt expect anything else from a noname player as Apex. I have an old noname VCD player, socalled DVCD player (branded Sony, very fake) that used to be popular in S.E. Asia. Compared to Pioneer DV444 it plays original VCDs in a most horrible way, movies that look great for a VCD on the DV444 has lots of macroblocks on the DVCD player. Chances are its made in the same taiwan factory as your Apex, never know with no-names, they are all fake.

[lordsmurf]

All of you are too quick to judge, possibly giving bad advice. We don't even know what the disc is that is being played! Dark areas tend to die with inadequate bitrate.

What kind of disc is this? All the details you know.

Don't just jump onto an "I hate Apex" bandwagon. When mine worked (laser now weak), quality was great. Even now, it still plays CD formats perfectly.

[louthewiz]

It is the player for sure ,do your self a favor and purchase a unit like a denon or harmon kardon if you want super quality if not get a decent panasonic like the s35 which I have and it dos not have the that kind of encoding artifact you get with cheap players... :P :P :P

[lordsmurf]

It is the player for sure ,do your self a favor and purchase a unit like a denon or harmon kardon if you want super quality if not get a decent panasonic like the s35 which I have and it dos not have the that kind of encoding artifact you get with cheap players... :P :P :P

How can you be so sure? So many people here are judging without even knowing more details. That's irresponsible advice. It drives me nuts when somebody says "buy something else" when that may not be the fix. I won't even comment until I hear what kind of DVD/VCD/whatever is the disc in question.

If this was a 500k CBR XVCD, would you still blame the player ?!

[bigkahunaps2]

Ok, I watched Gothika (original dvd). It's basically a darker movie, but the artifacting is bad. How do I know if it's the DVD player or TV?
Could it be the component cables? I notice this on originals as well as backups. Sorry, I don't know the bitrate.

Side note, I have Comcast HDTV box and when viewing some HD programs, it is noticeable as well

thanx guys

[FulciLives]

My old APEX (500-W or something like that) was garbage. The video had a lot of artifacts ON original DVD discs.

Play the same disc back in another player and it looked super.

Based on WHAT bigkahunaps2 has said and what I KNOW about APEX ... it sure sounds like the DVD player IS at fault.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

It could be cables, it could be the disc (how old is it, sorry not sure what Gothika is), could be the tv set. Could even be the DVD player. Before buying anything new (or at least make sure it has a good return policy), try your DVDs at a friend's house.

Seeing it on HDTV may simply be what I hate about HD ... it makes otherwise good sources look bad. This is the bad part of finer clarity from higher res.

[FulciLives]

Seeing it on HDTV may simply be what I hate about HD ... it makes otherwise good sources look bad. This is the bad part of finer clarity from higher res.

The problem I have seen with HDTV (and I have admittingly seen very little) is that it seems that the bitrate is often times not really high enough for the source.

As for GOTHICA it is a big budget movie from a major Hollywood company that just came out on DVD this year so I doubt the problem is that DVD.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[thor300]

Smurf, i have no problem with Apex, i just wouldnt buy any more nonames myself. I know lots of people are happy with their nonames, just as some people are happy with driving a small Kia, its also made by GM, but i THINK they are aware that they cant expect it to perform as a Corvette. Realistic expectations, the original poster expect high quailty from a low-end player.

[disturbed1]

These are crap Apex models that I personally own. By crap, it's compared in picture quality to my Panasonic s35 connected to a JVC 32" wide screen TV with S-Video cable.

Apex 500ad
Apex 500w
Apex 5131
Apex 1100w
Apex 1110w
Apex 1200
Apex 7701

The best Apex players I have, are the 500ad and 1100w. The worse by far is the 7701, 1110w, and 500w.

Construction wise, only the 500ad is good, 7701 is OK, the rest are horrible, 1110w, and 500w being the worse.

Having own(ed) 7 Apex DVD players, I do not hold that brand name with high regaurd, and would never reccomend someone to buy it.

[teegee420]

Jesus, how many models do you have of brands that you do like?

[thor300]

Would a better DVD player fix this issue? Like a Pioneer Elite?

I want to buy the Pioneer DV565, with 192/24 Burr Brown D/A converter, just that the price is a little to high. It plays both SACD and DVD audio, and uses Analog Devices 27 mhz/10 bit video decoder. That sounds good to me, but maybe it is overprized. I dont like other Jap brands, am very convinced about long life quality in Pioneer. A friend sold Pioneer car stereos for years and no CD players were brought back for service, one month of selling Sony made up for that, almost 50% of the units were returned. Still, that time the Sonys did sound better, Pioneer never made it to the top in car Stereo competitions here. (No Jap Amps/Speakers ofcourse, only American). sorry, a bit off topic.

[vhelp]

Apex's .. .. ..

You forgot to add the 1500 to the list.

I have this one. Two of them, and one is MV hacked (hackable) for my VHS
projects and things.

I've had the 1500 model for two years now (I think) and I've never had any
quality issues from these. Its my OP that this model is a great model for its
quality.

I also have the AD-500. My very first dvd player. I've had no problems w/
this model either, and still works great ?P
However, the color is on the light side, but still acceptable. Could just be my
player only - bad adjust or something, maybe.

What TV set are you viewing this movis on ??

From my experience, all these flat-screens produce garbage quality video
from most dvd sources. You see all sorts of DCT / Blocks and other things
on them.
I think that bitrates have to be somethign like 20k or more, to not show all
those "niddles" you see on those flat-screens. And, its much worse when
you view on an HDTV even.
.
If my OP, that when you are looking at the video quality on a store display,
you are looking at "control". By that, I mean, that you are looking at a disk
that was pumped up for display purposes. This is so misleading to the people
out there in tv land. We see this great sample video that she show every
day on their sets, and then buy get enticed and buy it, then get it home and
set it up, and pop in our favorite DVD movie, and what do you know..
blcoks, pixels, dct, macros etc etc are showing up all over the place.
.
By that time, and playing around for a week or so with it, you've now come
to a decision of a comprimise, and convinced yourself, it's gonna get better
once the dvd disks improve.. hence Superbit dvd's. However, even they
exhibit issues too.
.
So, while you wait for disks to get better, they are also improving upon their
TV sets too. Now, a year or so later, they have a new "5D-SuperComb"
filter that will produce near stunning results. So, what do you do with your
$3000 HDTV set ?? ..of which was not improved ??

Well, thats my analygy of how things are today, from experience. It sucks
how they can trick you w/ their fancy words. The best person to talk to when
you are shoping is not the one that can talk the talk, using fancy words and
sentenses. Find someone who talks w/ bad grammer. That's the honest
person who will tell you like it is - the trueth. That's me, for instance. I tell
(or use to tell) my customers the trueth at certain things.

Well, that's my take on this quality issue thing.

-vhelp

[thor300]

vhelp, nice post, but is color on the light side acceptable? Where is your limit for acceptable anyway? I never owned an Apex and never will, the DVCD player i bought in Philipines satisfied my need for nonames permanently. Sorry to say i chose to believe Fulci and disturbed1 over you here, you sound like a sales agent i talked to last time i bought a motorcycle, he tried to show me a chinese made Harley-clone, i asked him if they also made washing machines, i sure never heard of that brand. Needless to say i bought a Yamaha, from ANOTHER vendor.

[disturbed1]

Jesus, how many models do you have of brands that you do like?

I like my 2 Panasonics, Philips FWD5 is a decent older all in one, the Sony PS2s aren't that great, but better than any of my Apex models.


I'm looking to pick up a Toshiba in the next month or so, never owned one of those. A friend has one, and I was pretty impressed with the quality.

[vhelp]

Just curious..

what brand Toshiba is that ?? :P
-vhelp

[vhelp]

vhelp, nice post, but is color on the light side acceptable? Where is your limit for acceptable anyway? I never owned an Apex and never will, the DVCD player i bought in Philipines satisfied my need for nonames permanently. Sorry to say i chose to believe Fulci and disturbed1 over you here, you sound like a sales agent i talked to last time i bought a motorcycle, he tried to show me a chinese made Harley-clone, i asked him if they also made washing machines, i sure never heard of that brand. Needless to say i bought a Yamaha, from ANOTHER vendor.

- - "acceptable" is user descression. You know everyone has a difference
in OP. But, as I said earlier about that model (AD-500) it was prob a flawed
unit, but not flawed enought for me to return. As far as I could tell, the video
quality was not bad in any way, hence not worth bringing back. It was good,
but probably not as good as a really expensive model (back at the time I got
it, maybe 3 years ago or so) So, in my OP, the video was good quality, just
not that good as my AD-1500 model, only because the 1500 was darker, or
richer in color.. that's all.


Salesmen.. hmmm
I wasn't trying to sell anything. I was talking about how disapointed I was
w/ those flat-screen tv sets quality, as well as the HDTV ones too. Too many
people making lots of hype posts about the quality of these newer technoledgy
devices, when in actuallity, there is limited media in this great quality format
for the casual user to appreciate. ie, Cable, and evean satellite have limited
channels for such. Be still, even these mediums have limited quality in these
formats. I tell you, its not worth paying so much extra monies on these
channels, when they too are not up to par in the promised quality hype.
I mean, look it how Satellite is pumping out more and more channels, and
in the process, (ie, DirecTV) in order to give more channels, they have to
limit the quality, using a scale that they devised, the yields what they feel
is "consumer acceptable" and consiquentully air such sources. That's ben
my experience. I've long since gave up on Satellite, though. I was simply
paying too much for quality that was now matching what is aired by Cable
or even Attenna.
.
I have learned now, to dislike this so called "digital" hype because they are
jimying the source to get more $$$ out of it. And, all you really see these
days from these sources, is way too much DCT blocks. I'm tired of seeing
this gargbage, and paying for it to, all the time they are saying "digital" quality.
Yes.., you are digitallizing those blocks. But, to me, they are usesless.

And, I'm still not selling you anything :P
-vhelp

[disturbed1]

I think it's the SD-49xx. He paid around $80-$90 for it on sale.


The Apex 500ad was my first DVD player also. ~$100 at Circuit City around Xmas time 3-4 years ago.

If Apex continued to make units like the 500ad, everything would be great, but it seems like every model is different, some OK, some real bad.

Anyone who owns a 7701 can atest to that. This thing is just crap, brand new, and will not play most Wanner Bros. titles, and just quits play back in the middle of a DVD. Boasts DVD-Audio, but the audio quality is just unbearable. Glad Direct Tv sent it to me for free, well, I would of rather had a different model, but at least I didn't pay for it.

[thor300]

vhelp, thanx for not selling me anything To clarify a bit, you said you would tell the truth in some cases, and in the same post saying Apex is not bad, so its like you want to sell an Apex instead of a branded player, and thats the part where this guy tried to sell me this chinese motorcycle; "very high quality sir, engine parts made by Honda, much cheaper than Yamaha, bigger and....". I have serious problems with arguments like that, im always willing to pay extra for better quality, and will not forgive myself for trying to save a few bucks when i bought Nec ND1300A instead of Pioneer 107D. Now i need to buy the 107 anyway...

[vhelp]

@ thor300,

I think I understand your point of view now - - :P

I tend to buy the chepos' and sooner or later, end up buying the better brand.

That's how things are sometimes, in life. You go for the cheap stuff, hoping
that all works out ok in the mean time. (Could be many reason for going this
route)

It's always revolving. You know.. Anyways..
-vhelp

[bigkahunaps2]

Guys, I still don't follow. I also notice this on some HD programming.
Do you think something is messed up with the Component inputs on my TV?

thanx

[johns0]

bigkahunaps2,try another dvd player.

[disturbed1]

Guys, I still don't follow. I also notice this on some HD programming.
Do you think something is messed up with the Component inputs on my TV?

thanx

No, something is messed up with your cable company, or, in realality, all cable companies. Time Warner has a poor excuse for HDTV, just look at their "HDTV" ESPN

They don't broadcast "true" HDTV signals all the time. Sometimes, it's just an upconverted low res anolouge signal. This explains why some programs look good, while other so called HDTV channels look like shit.

I have Comcast HDTV box and when viewing some HD programs, it is noticeable as well

Watch HBO, or another pay channel during prime time. This is usually when and where the signal quality is the best. Most Cable providers and Sat, use a different compression scheme depending on the channel and time of day. Direct TV, and Time Warner digital and HDTV are broadcast this way, I'd bet, Comcast follows the same.

[bigkahunaps2]

Ok, will try another DVD player first.

It does it on most dvds I have; whether original or not.

Also, to test, maybe I'll run stuff thru S-video to see if the pic looks different....would suck if my component inputs were screwed up