DV Capture - a few idiot questions

[tjborwn101]

DV via IEEE controller to PC

I did some preliminary searches and recievd too many responses / feedback to make heads or tails of it....

1. What is native file format for DV Video -- AVI? Sony Proprietary?

2. I know best method is to capture at AVI and convert to MPEG ... but what is best software to go from DV IEEE to MPEG2 directly. (ok I've got three kids under five years of age and time is short)

3. If the above is really not feasible (audio sync, quality, etc,) what is the best AVI capture software and secondly the best AVI to MPEG2 converter.

Thanks... my first experiences with DV captiure has not been the best. (pinnacle - not great, Ulead - lock ups)....

Thanks TJ

[Capmaster]

OK, one at a time:

1) DV is DV. The usual container you see is AVI, but others can be used. IEEE-1394 is only the interface commonly used to transfer DV from camcorder to PC or standalone. It's also called Firewire and iLink. It's a digital interface used for transferring files. The process of copying digital files from the camcorder to the PC is often mistakenly called "capturing", but it's really only copying. True "capturing" involves taking an analog source and digitizing it, usually to MPEG.

(MPEG is much more highly compressed than DV, so the files are much smaller. The drawback is MPEG is intended to be the finished format for video. It's more difficult to successfully edit than DV. The VOB files you see on a DVD are really truly MPEG2 files.)

2) The best software to convert is a subjective thing and each app has different strong points and weak points. Your personal needs will dictate which one is best for you. There is no one "best" application. Search this forum for threads discussing the pros and cons for each application. Also check the tools section.

3) Many people have gotten great results going from DV to MPEG2. It's just time-consuming. The standard method is to copy the DV to the PC, do all the editing to the DV, then encode to MPEG. Then you must use an authoring app to generate the DVD-compliant (or VCD or SVCD if that's your intended output) files. Then burn the disc either from the authoring app or from a separate app like Nero or Roxio.

Editing MPEG can get dicey without a frame-accurate editor, but for those of us who work strictly with MPEG, it's our only option.

Get out of the habit of calling it "DV capture" on this forum. Call it "DV transfer".

[BSR]

1. What is native file format for DV Video -- AVI? Sony Proprietary?

I use windows and direct transfer from DV cam is always an AVI file. Don't believe its sony proprietary.

2. I know best method is to capture at AVI and convert to MPEG ... but what is best software to go from DV IEEE to MPEG2 directly. (ok I've got three kids under five years of age and time is short)

I haven't ever done this so I can't answer. Editing will be alot easier in DV format than MPEG format.

3. If the above is really not feasible (audio sync, quality, etc,) what is the best AVI capture software and secondly the best AVI to MPEG2 converter.

Don't think there is any best, it's just a direct transfer. Here are my experiences with my Sony Cam.
Scenalyzer Live - many people love this that have had sync issues. I have used it and it works great. 30day eval available.
WinDV - Free, had sync issues with long captures>45min
DVIO - Free, had sync issues with long captures>45min
Ulead Video Studio Ver 6 - works great but only captures type 1
Adobe Premiere 6.5 - works great

Sync issues with WinDV and DVIO I have read that this is probably only an issue with Sony DV cams.

As for AVI to MPEG converter, I like TMPGEnc. CCE is another one I read a lot of good things about also. I do believe Ulead has a built in one, but not sure of its quality.

[tjborwn101]

Of course time is a main reason (desire) to 'tranfer' and convert my DV to PC in MPEG2 flavor. I am using Womple MPEG Editor that never recodes compliant MPEG files when inserting transitions, etc.

Thus the reason why I am desiring software to do a direct DV --> MPEG capture (transfer / conversion) "on the fly"

I've got a Hardware MPEG capture board and will try SVIDEO from camcorder to it and then compare to DV --> AVI --> MPEG2 files.. if not significant qlty diferences I will opt for that route going forward.... strictly for time savings.

[mikesbytes]

To be honest, the personal video of your children is worth spending a little time on. Realtime MPEG2 capture will probably do injustice.

Home video is more difficult to convert to MPEG2 than other sources due to camera shake robbing the encoder of valuable bits that should be used on the people in the clips.

I recommend that you capture DV. Edit the DV, leaving the best bits and then convert to MPEG2 using the highest quality and motion detection settings available on your encoder.

[BSR]

If you do choose to go the Direct to MPEG route and want the best quality, then use extremely high bitrates, 8000-9000.
You won't be able to fit as much on the DVD, but this is the compromise between speed/quality/size.

Also look into capturing at half D1(352x480). If your only watching it on a standard TV, you might not notice the difference.

I guess we are still waiting to hear what software people use to go direct to MPEG from the DV cam. If I did do it, I would probably use Ulead VideoStudio 6, but I havn't had the crashing issues with it that you've had.

[tjborwn101]

I just downloaded the Mainconcepts MPEG Encoder program that allows DV direct to MPEG transfer / conversion. It of course supports various other conversions. I will let you know how I fair ....

TJ

[tjborwn101]

OK, so after getting the kiddies to bed last nite I tried the MainConcepts MPEG Program... I set the capture up for MPEG2 (L2 Audio) and did a 20 minute capture. (It also has a DVD setting which is MPEG + PCM)

I then burned to RW DVD along with a ULEAD DV -> MPEG Capture.

The ULEAD was captured at its best setting and the MainConcepts was set to VBR at a cap of 6000 (min of 4000) .

The qlty of the MainConcepts MPEG was very good.. the ulead was a tad "less than" and included some pixulation and slight 'break-up' of the video.

Next step is to try the Pinnacle S8 capture / conversion and see how bad the lip syncing is.

TJ

[MpegEncoder]

Sync problems with DV do NOT occur with recorded DV tapes. The sync problems occur when using passthrough to convert ananlog input (usually VHS, etc) to DV. The camcorders do not use locked audio/video and therefore there is a slight drift between the two. For short clips you won't notice it. For long footage it gets worse as you go.

This site explains it very well:
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#LockedAudio

[BSR]

The sync problems occur when using passthrough to convert ananlog input (usually VHS, etc) to DV.

Yes, I was using my camcorders passthrough when I noticed the sync issues.
Excellent link, it explains a lot.

[ajc53]

I have tested the Pinnacle MPG real time transfer. It did OK. But strangely it created two files: the DV file; and a MPG file, which was encoding in the background and took a few extra minutes to finish after the transfer was complete.

I was planning on eventually test MainConcept.

But it makes so much more sense to put the DV AVI file in one of those editing programs (Pinnacle, Ulead, Power Director, etc) to cut, trim, split, add transitions, etc, first, then encode afterwards. If you want a fast encode (which is what you get on real time MPG capture) you can always adjust your settings accordingly.

I have tried that and compared it to an all night slow encode (TMPGEnc), and I can't tell that much difference.

In the past few months I have done numerous analog direct MPG captures and ended up going straight to authoring (TMPGEnc DVD Author) for my trimming, menus, and making the DVD. I gave up trying to do special effects on a MPG file, because it is just an accident waiting to happen.

DV AVI is much more fun and easy to work with, while you have.

[tjborwn101]

AJC53

So, to confirm, You bring AVI direct into Pinnacle use their converter to convert to MPEG.. Happy with results? Also, what other converters have you tried? I thought Studio would convert the DV to MPEG during import. Is there a setting leave content in AVI (DV) format and not convert?

The ULEAD was so-so (I've got a 42" TV so you see the slightest anamolies.

Main Concepts is a good contender and with the Womple Editor it only re-encodes titles and transitions and if the MPEG is compliant it just 'copies' it so-to-speak with the transitions when creating a new MPEG... Very nice...

So, what I'm looking for is the best MPEG DV importer... or I will settle for AVI as long as I can find a fairly fast (and decent) AVI to MPEG converter.

Good thread so far

Thanks TJ

[ajc53]

I just tried Pinnacle once with a 6 minute transfer/capture. I ran it through several programs and encoders , burned them on a dvd to compare the results. Like I said in the previous post, not much difference.

I did not go back to Pinnacle to see if it would do the MPG in one step.

In what I am getting from this site is MainConcepts is the best DV / MPG capture program. Even though some of those all-in one programs seem to work.

I am using WinDV for my transfer, then to one of those other programs to edit, then TMPGEnc to encode, then TMPGEnc DVD Author for the rest.

If your computer profile is accurate and you only have 20 and 30Gb drives, you are not going to want to deal with AVI files. Even with MPG files you may want to be planning on a larger drive.

I got my WD 80 Gb from NewEgg for $70 to use as my second drive for captures and short term storage. It is a very reliable drive, and I am planning to order another one.

[tjborwn101]

well the 1 year old got me up at 4:00 on Saturday (and 4:30 on Sunday) so I had some 'free' time to do a few tests. For time I am trying to bypass the AVI --> MPEG conversion

Capturing:

1. MainConcept MPEG Capture - DV 1394 transfer - Excellent quality MPEG conversion. Captured at fixed 6000 bitrate.

2. External USB Analog Capture- (ADSTech DVDxPress) -- Captured via Svideo Analog in, 6000 bitrate ... quality was ok ... a tad more grainy and not quite as sharp as the MainConcept

3. Studio 8.12 - DV 1394 - DV in - quality was comparible to MainConcept and this was unconverted AVI.

4. Studi 8.12 - DV in --> conversion to MPEG -- sucked ... stutering, pixelation, etc.

5. ULead DVD MF - DV in --> No stuttering but pixelation....

So... it seems that MainConcepts was very good and 'comparible' to DV AVI after...


Titling and Transitions of the MainConcept MPEG

So... Sunday... a 14 minute video dropped into a few programs to test quality of titles and transitions on the MainConcept 6000 bitrate file.

Womple MPEG Encoder... I thought was gonna be the best for this type of program. When a title or transition was put into the video and encoded there was a lot of stuttering of the video when the title was 'crossing the screen' or when it was transitioning between to clips. I was bummed on this one but the tool will be used for other MPEG tasks...

Intervideo DVD Creator ... Resulting MPEG was choppy and very grainy

Ulead DVD MF V3 -- Not bad but slightly duller video footage than original. Transitions became a tad choppy

Studio 8.12 -- Well I hate to say this but the quality of the MPEG transitions and titles was very good .... just ever so slightly less than the original MainConcept Capture. Now I have had a few sync problems with Pinnacle in past (mian with the POS DC10 card) ... but the MPEG qlty for 8.12 isn't bad... does anyone know of the qlty of V9 regarding MPEG... has it gotten even better?

Speed of conversion wasn't bad for this job ... about 10 minutes to encode the MPEG.

Thoughts feedback...

TJ

[ajc53]

Studio 8.12 -- Well I hate to say this but the quality of the MPEG transitions and titles was very good .... just ever so slightly less than the original MainConcept Capture.

Speed of conversion wasn't bad for this job ... about 10 minutes to encode the MPEG.TJ

Did you try a direct conversion using MainConcepts and then importing it into Studio 8.12 to edit and apply transitions?

I tried a brief direct transfer with MainConcepts trial version last night and did not really like was I saw. It did not like the highest quality setting (stair step effect), and it does not show the number of dropped frames.

Are you using the trial version of MainConcepts? I did not see where you can set the birate, but rather a quality sliding bar.

[tjborwn101]

I tried one Direct (AVI) xfer from DV camcorder to Studio8 and conversion to MPEG for later final buring took about 10 minutes on a 2 min video.... (if memory serves me right) .... so I'm trying to stick with MPEG IN and Out...

TJ