quality lacking in capture of "LIVE" TV-IN video

[pglenn]

I am using an ATI-7500AIW and I am having problems with the quality of "Live" TV-IN recordings, from "Live" sources such as sporting events, news, and similar broadcasts with a "Live" look and not "videotaped" look.

I am getting quite good capture of the video from TV-IN, however when capturing "LIVE" TV such as sports, the video capture quality is somewhat "soft" and has a video-taped look rather than a LIVE look to it. The signal is not the problem as the TV viewer on my desktop also shows the picture as "LIVE" quality.

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. Again the TV viewer on my desktop show "Live" quality so the signal in is good.

Patrick

my setup
--------------
P4 at 2.4gig
512mb ram
ATI-7500 AIW

using ATI's MMC 8.5 to view/record

record options:
(varied for testing, but use the following)
--------------
MPEG-2
6-8mb bit rate
VIDEOSOAP
- I have used NONE and I have used combinations. the best quality seems to come with using "despeckle" and "sharpen" both set at about 23%

[tonsofpcs]

Is your video input composite, component, Y/C [S-Video], or Coax/F/RF?

[pglenn]

The input is COAX but I am not sure that the input is the problem as the TV-viewer plays the input just perfect with "Live" quality.

Patrick

[tonsofpcs]

What is your definition of Live Quality?

[pglenn]

maybe a bit hard to explain, but by "Live Quality", I mean the source is something like watching an NFL football game, or maybe like most afternoon soaps. very crisp, looks like you are right there in person. By "video-tape quality", it is like watching an episode of "Seinfeld", very clear image but a bit softer image.

Patrick

[tonsofpcs]

What format are you recording in, and NTSC or PAL?

[pglenn]

NTSC

[tonsofpcs]

What recording format??? [compression algorithm/codec]

[FulciLives]

Converting video to MPEG tends to "soften" it just a bit. I'm not sure there is a whole lot you can do about that unless you use some sort of "sharpen" filter.

It does seem you are using a high enough bitrate and I hope you are doing Full D1 resolution (720x480) because using Half D1 (352x480) will soften the picture a bit as well (and no real way around that at that resolution).

Does it still look soft when you don't use any filtering such as no VideoSoap?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
Also be sure you don't have a deinterlacing option enabled since deinterlacing will also destroy the sharpness of the image.

[FulciLives]

- I have used NONE and I have used combinations. the best quality seems to come with using "despeckle" and "sharpen" both set at about 23%

Just noticed the "despeckle" comment.

I wanted to point out that most forms of "noise" removal will soften the image.

Try it without any filtering and then try it with just a sharpness filter but nothing else. The "despeckle" part of VideoSoap could be causing the softness even with a "sharpness" filter in use.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Nelson37]

Try using the S-Video input for the best quality. The tuner on the ATI card Definitely degrades the signal. If the game is available on a digital cable station, use that.

In addition to that, you might try AVI capture with later re-encode. Not really a huge improvement for the time invested, IMO.

[FulciLives]

Try using the S-Video input for the best quality. The tuner on the ATI card Definitely degrades the signal. If the game is available on a digital cable station, use that.

In addition to that, you might try AVI capture with later re-encode. Not really a huge improvement for the time invested, IMO.

I didn't mention this since pglenn said his real-time preview on the computer looked good BUT ...

It is true that the tuner built-in to most capture cards is not very good ... often times a VCR has a better tuner.

If you have a cable box or satelite box whatever-you-use that has analog video and audio outputs try connecting it that way ... be it S-Video or composite (test both) ... and if not then you can use a VCR as a tuner and use the analog outputs of the VCR to connect to your ATI capture card.

You very well may get better quality this way as opposed to using the tuner built-in to the ATI

It's worth testing.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FOO]

I mean the source is something like watching an NFL football game, or maybe like most afternoon soaps

Ughh

There's the problem right there -

[pglenn]

I have tried both with/without the VideoSoap options with pretty much the same results. I also tried on 720x480 and smaller resolutions, not too much difference.

I am not sure right now if I have de-interlacing enabled or not. I will try when I get home to record a sampling at 720x480, no VIDEOSOAP, and deinterlacing off if not already, and see if that helps.

Patrick

[pglenn]

FYI - in a matter of speaking, I am not so much using the video cards tuner. I am using the COAX direct from my cable box, and only viewing on channel-3 of the video cards tuner. also I am open to all suggestions but not so sure of the source being so much a problem as the tv-tuner/preview does show a much better pic than the capture file.

[FulciLives]

FYI - in a matter of speaking, I am not so much using the video cards tuner. I am using the COAX direct from my cable box, and only viewing on channel-3 of the video cards tuner. also I am open to all suggestions but not so sure of the source being so much a problem as the tv-tuner/preview does show a much better pic than the capture file.

Well you are still subject to the quality (or lack thereof) of the tuner built-in to the ATI if you are using an RF cable as input.

Just about all cable boxes have analog outputs ... try that method of connection. You might be surprised with an increase in image quality.

If that doesn't help then you may have to do things the "hard way" i.e., capture AVI format using the HuffyUV codec THEN convert to MPEG-2 DVD spec afterwards with soemthing like TMPGEnc Plus or CINEMA CRAFT ENCODER etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Nelson37]

Do not compare the final result using the preview. Encode to final file using both cable connections, and compare this. The difference is much more obvious.

All coax input to the ATI card goes through the tuner.

Also, tune the brightness, color, contrast, and tint by comparing the final result, NOT the PC preview.