Conversion causes motion distortion

[kobe08]

Hi guys,
I'm converting an .avi to dvd. I have edited 3.avi's in WMM and saved it to one .avi (PAL format).
If I watch the .avi on my pc, the picture is perfect, basically what I would want on DVD. When I convert to mp2 (for video), the video gets motion distortion which I believe has something to do with interlacing (I've I read in the forums).
I originally converted the .avi using ULead DVD Factory which caused a fair bit of distortion, but then used TMPGEnc and DVD-Lab to burn it to DVD which made it worse!
I've burnt previous movies without a problem (to SVCD) and this is second I've done to DVD (the first was all NTCS, and this one is PAL).
I have tried all of this in NTCS without any improvement, so would like some help.
Thanks!
Matt

[daamon]

Hi kobe08,

What are the AVIs? Divx, Xvid, DV? Use AVICodec to get details and post back... What's the footage? Captured from VHS, DV cam, DVD etc.?

Also, it could be what's called "macroblocks" you're seeing. This is where the bitrate is too low for the resolution, and you seen square blocks appearing. You're description of "distortion" doesn't say whether it's blocks or horizontal lines giving your picture a "comb" effect (i.e. "jaggy" looking) - interlacing.

If possible, post a picture as an example.

What resolution are you encoding to? This could have a bearing depending on the quality of the source AVI.

[kobe08]

Heya Daamon,
The AVIs are DV-AVI's. I downloaded AVICodec and got the following results:
File : 4.89 GB (1020 MB), duration: 0:24:08, type: AVI, 0 audio stream(s), quality: 50 %
Video : 1020 MB, 5909 Kbps, 25.0 fps, 0*0 (), dvsd = Sony Digital Video, Supported

Sorry, when I say distortion, it's the "comb" effect of vertical lines near the moving parts.

As for the resolution I'm encoding too, I'm just using TMPGEnc and letting things run automatically. By the looks of it, I'm gonna have to start playing with the settings a little.

I also tried burning to SVCD which didn't work either. Somebody mentioned I should try converting from top down, rather than bottom up.

Any further advice would be handy though!

kobe08

[kobe08]

Hi All,

Another thing I've just found. The DVD I just burnt (the one that has been playing up) plays fine on the PC.

Now I think I've got the interlacing problem licked, but now I'm getting a like a "strobed" effect when I play it through my PS2....the "comb effect" has gone but the quality is not good at all. For example, I have a title effect at the start which is fine on PC, all the way through convert to MP2 to DVD.....

Could this just be my PS2 not being able to play burnt DVD's well maybe? Or is it still a problem with interlacing only getting say half of the frame it should (whereas it plays great with Autointerlacing turned on in PowerDVD played through either file or DVD)....

Any ideas would help.

kobe08

[guns1inger]

I have not had great experiences with tmpgenc when encoding DV source. I get exactly the problems you are describing whenever there is fast motion. I am now using mainconcept's encoder (built in to Vegas 4) and getting much better results.

[daamon]

Hi kobe08,

You don't say what you're using to capture your AVIs. I'm guessing it's WMM. In which case, it's probably capturing as DV AVI type 1 (as opposed to type 2).

This link might be of interest:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/t213552.html

...and might help solve your problems.

If you do think it might be the cause, you could use this:

https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=195

Sorry, when I say distortion, it's the "comb" effect of vertical lines near the moving parts.

This definitely sounds like an interlacing problem.

EDIT: You say you've fixed it. What was it? How did you fix it? (For my own interest, as well as others who may have the same problem).

Somebody mentioned I should try converting from top down, rather than bottom up.

DV AVI is interlaced with the bottom field (sometimes called the "B" field) appearing first. Your setting in TMPGEnc should be set to "Field Order: B" (or something like that - but definitely lower field first).

A good guide for TMPGEnc settings is:

https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=303#303

Don't forget to rate it after you've used it.

...but now I'm getting a like a "strobed" effect when I play it through my PS2...Could this just be my PS2 not being able to play burnt DVD's well maybe?

I don't own a PS2, so don't know about this. Sorry. That said, I have seen in these forums that PS2's may need chipping? Don't know for sure...

Hope that helps. Good luck...

[kobe08]

Hi guys,

Got some more information. I've tried both Bottom field first and get this (shown in dvd-lab):



Then, I tried Top field first, same thing:



I've tried non-interlaced but that does no good either. I'm starting to get really frustrated only because I don't understand interlacing properly....

Would be mighty glad if somebody could help!

Matt
:P

[kobe08]

Sorry daamon,

To answer your question, yes, I did import the .AVI through WMM. I've edited 2 1/2 hours of raw footage down to 25 minutes and not really keen to re-edit it, if it can be helped!

Thanks guys!

[kobe08]

Guys,
Just another thing I noticed was that those picture problems are viewable in TPMGEnc when looking at the Noise Reduction screen for example.
Is that right, and if so (as I'm presuming it hasn't been interlaced yet), shouldn't the conversion be fixing that?
Matt

[daamon]

Hi kobe08,

Firstly, you need to read up on "Interlace" and "Progressive Scan" in the "Glossary" (link, top left of the page).

Also, check out this article:
https://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=514#514
(Don't forget to rate it afterwards)

Read the bit in the article entitled "Some definitions and explanations".

This one might be of use too:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/video-basics.htm

WARNING: DON'T get hung up thinking you need to de-interlace your material. YOU MOST LIKELY DON'T. I capture DV AVI all the time and don't have interlace problems, there's no reason why you can't too.

Interlace is used by TVs, progressive scan is used by PC monitors. So, playing interlaced material on a progressive scan display (like previewing your work in DVD-Lab on your monitor) isn't the best mix and can lead to what you're seeing.

You need to encode with bottom field first for DV AVI as this is interlaced and will be played on an interlaced display (your TV). It's quite common to see interlace effects on monitors, only for them to not be present (correctly) when viewed on TV. So, go ahead and burn your DVD (onto a re-writeable) and see what it comes out like on a TV.

Software like PowerDVD correct for interlace material (not sure if it's automatic, or if you have to "turn it on") when playing DVDs and so the problem isn't present.

...not really keen to re-edit it, if it can be helped...

Check out that tool I gave a link to - does DV AVI type 1 conversion to type 2. Not used, so can't comment on it's usefulness / reliability.

Hope that helps. Good luck...

[kobe08]

Thanks for the reply daamon,

Well I've tried Top First (as suggested by somebody else) and that came out really staggered in its look (on TV)...non-interlacing caused the afformentioned problem but with much clearer picture but bad distortion (as expected).

I'm trying Bottom Up now and will burn to DVD. My only concern is this is what caused my post in the first place, but I'll try again just incase I stuffed something in the first place.

I've read up on Interlacing and kind of understand it, but find it a waste of time burning stuff to DVD every five minutes when something doesn't work....but I'll keep trying.

Thanks and I'll report back soon.
kobe08!

[daamon]

...as I'm presuming it hasn't been interlaced yet...

I believe that I'm right in saying that (most? / all?) DV cams capture footage as interlaced with the lower field first, hence why you set this in TMPGEnc.

[daamon]

...but find it a waste of time burning stuff to DVD every five minutes when something doesn't work....but I'll keep trying.

That's the spirit - it'll seem easy / obvious once you crack it! I'm afraid that it might end up being a case of trial and error with different capturing tools etc.

Try DVIO and / or WinDV - both freeware - designed for capturing DV AVI (and in type 2). WMM may only save to type 1 DV AVI, so you may want to look into different editing software (or use the tool DV Type 1 to DV Type 2 Converter which is where the link in an earlier post will take you).

Capture short clips that have left-to-right (or right-to-left) motion as this highlights interlacing problems best. Short clips saves on time wasted at every stage when experimenting.

Did you refer to the TMPGEnc settings guide? There might be something in there that you're missing / shouldn't be doing in TMPGEnc.

Patience and a structured approach is the key...

[flaninacupboard]

You said this is PAL format and the ones you've done before were NTSC, are you encoding to PAL in TMPGenc, and are you in a PAL or NTSC territory? if you're wathching PAL in an NTSC area your PS2 will be converting the picture as it plays, producing odd motion.

There's never a simple answer i'm afraid.