Require help with OGG and Xvid file creation using Vdub.

[Eldric]

Sorry about this if this posting seems a bit redundant, unfortunately I haven't been able to find any specific posts on the forum with the information I need.
I'm a bit of a newbie to this sort of thing, so please bear with me. My objective is to capture video from either a digital or analog source, and then create an AVI file using a combination of OGG for the audio stream, and Xvid for the video stream. I was planning on capturing the initial raw video using the Virtualdub program and the HuffyUV codec. Once the raw video was captured, I had hoped to compress it using both OGG and Xvid (2-pass) into an AVI file, but unfortunately I cannot find any specific directions regarding how to perform this task (specifically with these two codecs) in Vdub. Additionally, I was hoping to find out some information regarding any compatibility issues between both Xvid and OGG, such as sync problems, etc. Can anybody help me out here or at least point me in the right direction?
Thanks in advance for your time and patience,
Yours Truly,
Eldric

[teegee420]

All you need is the latest xvid codec, OGG Vorbis and Virtualdub. If you want to add chapters and subtitles you'll need Virtualdubmod, which will allow you to export as a .OGM file. The avi container can hold multiple audio tracks but not subs and chapter points. Do you have any experience encoding to xvid?

[Eldric]

Well, I have had some experience with encoding, but not with Xvid or with Ogg. Most of the captures I've done have used commercial programs such as Moviestar or Vegas 4.0. Unfortunately I've been really displeased with the video playback I've gotten, both with the files being monsterously huge and also being a bit pixellated at times. I've asked around online and have found that the majority of videos that I've seen that are both extremely clear and almost small enough to fit on a CD have been made using Xvid. My target here is to make the cleanest copies while also the smallest filesize available, so I can backup my deteriorating video and laserdisc collection. I know analog sucks, but unfortunately the industry hasn't seen fit to transfer some of my out of print videos onto DVD. As a result, I decided to go the non-commercial route and use Virtualdub (as well as the instruction guides on this site) to capture the video and convert it into AVI files. As for using Ogg before, I haven't used it in this particular capacity. I've converted mp3s to Ogg format, but never used ogg in an AVI file. Since I've read that ogg would provide not only a clearer sound, but also make the file smaller, it seemed perfect for what I needed. However, like I stated in my original post, I was concerned with any sort of software conflicts between Ogg and Xvid, especially if there were any sort of problems such as sync problems with the audio and video or other similar playback problems. So overall, I guess you can say I'm a newbie when it comes to using both Vdub and Ogg.
Thanks in advance for your time and patience,
Eldric

[teegee420]

I've never had a problem with the Ogg/Xvid combination either in my own encodes or in other people's. If there is going to be any synch loss it will happen at the capture stage. By the way, in order to get the best quality possible you'll have to capture using a lossless codec like Picvideo MJPEG or Huffyuv. These two for example create files in excess of 10gb per hour of footage. When converting to mpeg-4(divx/xvid) you want to have the best possible source because it uses higher compression, therefore it's more lossy.

It's been a while since I've had to look for an xvid guide so I wasn't able to turn up much. Here's a guide for converting DVD to xvid but pay attention to steps 6-8. It describes setting up the xvid codec when encoding. When using Virtualdub you'll find these options in Video>Compression>, selecting Xvid MPEG-4 Codec and clicking "configuration. The codec has a built in bitrate calc nowadays but I still prefer using this one. A couple of words of advice, don't put more than around 90 minutes of video on one CD. Once your xvid bitrate falls below 950-1000 kbps, your quality will begin to suffer. CD's are cheap as hell these days anyway.

To be perfectly honest, I really think you should consider purchasing a DVD burner. I mention this because your intention is to archive, rather than just have something that plays on the PC(or certain mpeg-4 capbable DVD players). DVD is simply the best archiving medium available now. Though I enjoy backing up some of my favorite TV shows to mpeg-4, capturing old tapes and home movies are best suited on DVD. Just my opinion. Best of luck to you.

[Eldric]

Thanks alot, I'll be sure to pay attention to the end part of the DVD to Xvid guide. I had found it earlier but was looking for something specifically geared to what I wanted to do. In my previous post, I mentioned CDs, but ment both CDs and DVDs. I agree with you, DVDs are the better way to go, especially for archiving. Thanks again, and if I need anymore help I'll be sure to let you know.

Eldric

[teegee420]

Ah, so you have a DVD burner after all. I guess I forgot to check your computer details. Anyhow, here's a great xvid resource: http://www.vslcatena.nl/~ronald/docs/Xvid-FAQ-Crusty-04-03-2004.pdf
There's a shitload of information in it about all the different settings etc. Good luck with your encoding.

[BSR]

Might also want to check out www.doom9.org for more info on XVID and OGG. I've use XVID RC3, but never used OGG.
Isn't there a lot of compatibility issues with OGG? You've sparked my interest.

[teegee420]

Isn't there a lot of compatibility issues with OGG?

None that I've ever encountered. Take the OGM container for example, which is xvid and ogg muxed together about 90% of the time.

[BSR]

I guess I was talking about standalone DIVX players and other computers that don't have the OGG decoder installed(if that's what's needed to play it).
Mpeg-Layer3 is more common and any computer can usually read it without installing any extra software(at least that's what I thought )

I've read about benefits of OGG, but it seemed like other companies were dragging their feet in accepting this newer standard. This along with not knowing that much has kept me using Mpeg-Layer3 for my audio on XVID encodes.
I don't know much about it and am just curious.

--edit--
Teegee420 - looks like your right. Ogg has come quite a ways. I feel like I've been living under a rock or something. :P

[teegee420]

I guess I was talking about standalone DIVX players and other computers that don't have the OGG decoder installed(if that's what's needed to play it).
Mpeg-Layer3 is more common and any computer can usually read it without installing any extra software(at least that's what I thought )

You're right. You can't play ogg on a pc without an ogg decoder. Same as divx or xvid so that's not really a big deal. The set-top mpeg-4 players is another issue though. I don't know of any players that can decode ogg audio. That's not to say they don't exist, I just haven't come across one yet.

I've read about benefits of OGG, but it seemed like other companies were dragging their feet in accepting this newer standard. This along with not knowing that much has kept me using Mpeg-Layer3 for my audio on XVID encodes.
I don't know much about it and am just curious.

Here's the thing, I still use mp3 audio most of the time. I guess I'm too set in my old ways. The biggest advantage ogg has over mp3 is that in comparable low bitrates such as 96kbps, ogg wins hands down. I'm not much of an audiophile so the difference isn't all that important to me. You should see the audiometric testing results I've done on my ears...******* terrible.

[BSR]

teegee420
Thanks for your input. Think I'll stick with MP3 for now but will be keeping an eye on OGG. Saw on thier website that Realnetworks is interested in OGG so now it just might be a matter of time before others see the benefits and support it.
I'm all for new standards that offer advantages, but I also try to balence my decision with existing and future compatibility. Looks like OGG will soon be a choice of mine in the near future.