Jerking movements in burned DVD

[CharlesH]

Since I am recording rather useful digital clips with my camcorder, capturing, editing and finally burning DVD-s, it is time to improve the quality of the DVD.
My primary problem is the jerking, ghosting, vibrating (whatever term is appropriate) of moving objects, like people, cars etc. while the background is steady and sharp. Also the whole picture is jerking (etc) when I move the camera, like panning, the faster the pan the worse the effect.
A slight such problem is visible in the original camcorder recording, somewhat worse in the captured clip but much worse in the burned DVD played in a standalone DVD player..

JVC GR-DVL815 digital camcorder
Dell Dimension 8200 1.7 Ghz Pentium 4 PC (I don't know the mobo) 256 MB Mem.
Windows XP Home.
Capturing card: Pyro 1394
Visiontek Extasy Everything video card.
80 GB WD HD (for system and all programs) and 160 Maxtor HD (dedicated for videoclips)
Sony DVD RW DRU 500A DVD burner
Maxell and TDK DVD+R media

Captured in DV AVI file 720x480 29.97 f/sec,
Video Data rate 6200; Field order A; type 1
Constant bitrate

Would increasing the bitrate reduce the problem? What is the upper limit? I don't care about the size of the file, I am looking for the best quality.

Thank you for your interest and reply.

[redwudz]

When you crunch down a camcorder video to DV and finally to DVD all your mistakes are amplified through the encoding process. Fast, shakey motions take much more bitrate than stable, nonmoving video. You need to reach a balance to keep the encoding rate and the resulting DVD to reasonable quality. Yes, you can probably encode shakey video with fairly good quality, but you will burn up most of your DVD space to show it properly. You need your videos to be smoother, no fast pans or zooms and you will keep your bitrate lower and make the best use of the space on a DVD. I'll leave it to others for the fine points, but the better your input video, the better your output. Fast, jerky motion needs the highest bitrate to get a reasonable output.

[CharlesH]

Hy redwudz.
I am getting considerably better to "smooth" my camcorder recordings, but there are scenes one can not avoid, like a passing car or a vehemently gesticulating person. If increasing the bitrate is the answer (even if only a partial one) I do not care about the file size, my burned DVDs seldom exceed half of the disc (mostly 1/2 hour or less). But I would like to have the technical answer, like what is the max setting for video rate, does constant give better result than variable, any other solution. What is the situation if I capture direct into MPEG2?
Regards

[MYoung]

Holy schmoly guys!

The DVD medium should NOT dictate your cinematography! With all due respect, that's LUDICROUS! You can whip-pan your heart away and it should still look good if encoded properly.

You should try encoding VBR. I have had jerky video problems with CBR at 7000kbps before. I now do TMpgEnc's default VBR setting and it works fine. Another option, I've heard, is to use TMpgEnc's CQ (constant quality) setting. Or you could try lowering your CBR more.

[andkiich]

Are we sure that when the video was encoded that we used the proper field order? Just checking!

[ktnwin]

andkiich is right - if you encode your DV video with the wrong field order, the resulting MPEG-2 or DVD will show this strange phenomena when objects move (jerky motion). MPEG-1 / VCD do not have this problem as they have only one field.
E.g: if you use TMPGEnc to encode AVI to MPEG-2 then try to flip the field order (advanced settings tab, I believed)

How do you encode this to MPEG-2 or DVD ?

[CharlesH]

I encode using Ulead VideoStudio 7 with Field order A and DVD Type 1.
I am puzzled...Does MYoung suggest to lower CBR to improve quality? I had an impression, it is the other way.
I went by the letter of instructions. When I try to edit the "Properties" of the authoring template, the program sticks to 6000 CBR no matter if I change the Prop CBR to 8000. Somewhere I found that 6000 is considered "good" but 8000 "best".
Another question never answered: is CBR or VBR better for the quality (forget file size)? Is there an upper limit for VBR or CBR (again forget file size)? I do not intend to use a bitrate calculator, I have an idea about the size and time of the recording and again I don't care if a could only put 15 minutes on a DVD as long the quality warrants it.

[MYoung]

I was suggesting lowering CBR to prevent jerkiness.

Between VBR and CBR, I don't think it's really a matter of which is better as far as image quality goes, at least in theory. With VBR there will be a higher bit rate when it is needed (when there is lots of motion in the image) and with CBR the bit rate is fixed and it is storing X amount of data when it could get by in storing less data (when there is not lots of motion in the image). At least that's my simplistic understanding of it.

I never thought about the fields though. Good thinking! I don't know how you would check the field order in VideoStudio 7. Or maybe it's automatic? In TMpgEnc you just load the video, select deinterlacing, select a deinterlacing method, and scroll through the frames. If the frames are jerky then switch the field order. It's it's smooth then you selected the correct field order.

[Leoslocks]

. . . and DVD Type 1.

Is this Type 1 refering to MPEG 1? If so, that would cap your CBR at 6000. The quality would be lower than MPEG 2.
I am new to video and TMPGenc software. I have gotten good result with VBR (min 5000 max 8000) and CBR (8000). Taking sVHS tapes of softball with lots of poor camera technique (fast pans , shoulder held without image stabilization) and the results are much better than viewing the tapes.
I had the same jerking motion in one project after burning to DVD. It was a reversed field order problem. The problem was not evident in the software viewing of the file.(PowerDVD)

Check your software and see if your are authoring MPG 2 files.

[moraize]

Hi, Can anyone tell me if any setting in TMPGenc could cause the same jerkiness in VCD making??

I Always make DVD convertions to VCD without any problem, but last weekend, I made a VCD from some DV Tapes I had(the equipment was a Digital 8 Sony TRV-840). I captured in DV tipe 1 format and edited in adobe premiere 6.5, and Frameserved it to Tmpgenc(with video server plugin). And burned to VCD with ulead dvd movie factory. I only put Motion estimate highest in Tmpgenc settings, and every time I have an horizontal camera moviment , the video, seems to lack frames.

Any help for that???

thanks...

[Sillyname]

Honestly fellas... From what I have heard, TMPGENC only handles TYPE 2 DV files. I believe it even states that in their help files. Wierd that they have Type 1 as an option, isn't it?

Capture your original video as Type 2, edit as type 2 and encode as type 2 and everything should be fine, as far as the skipping frame thingy goes. The jittery combing effect during fast movement, mentioned earlier, is a field order mismatch problem. Try the other field order in TMPEG and rerender.

[turboman]

Are we sure that when the video was encoded that we used the proper field order? Just checking!

Have to agree it sounds more like he is having a problem with feild order. Make sure you have your project set to the same feild order as how it was captured. Then make sure it is rendered with the same feild order.

If you right click on your clips inside your editing program it should give you this information.