Is capture all there is?

[rminialoff]

I have and ATI AIW Radian 32mb. I want to transfer cam corder footage to VCD. I noticed that no matter what capture setting I use, (I have tried every setting that comes with the software), the resulting files all look the same. They are all close to but not as good as the original tape.

So I started thinking about the word *Capture*. To me it has always implied a backdoor method of copying something where it is understood that you are risking the quality will not be as good as the original.

Am I missing something or is capture the only way to get video from a camcorder to disk, or is there a more direct method where you are making a *real* copy of the original tape?

[hitechjunkie]

not familiar with the ATI software, but have you tried using VirtualDub or AVI_IO for your captures? using one of these applications for capturing raw avi at max rez with the lossless huffyuv codec should get you the best analog capture. an alternative would be to use some analog-to-digital device (Sony Digital8 Camcorders) and transfer the audio/video data to your PC via Firewire.

[rminialoff]

So transfering with firewire is not considered a capture, i.e. it is a true transfer of the original?

If so is capturing the only other option outside of a firewire transfer?

Furthermore is it then fair to say that *capture-is-capture* and outside of some tinkering or useing different software, it will never be great because it is still just capturing. If so, I can live with that, I just wondered if I was missing something.

[Shabubu]

Bascially the problem with capture is that VHS and camcorder (as well as VCD to some extent) was designed for TV's that "fuzz" the picture, that's hy VCD's always look so much better on a stand alone, thus all your doing with capturing is trying to get as good a looking picture as possible. The advantage is that once you have the VHS converted, it will never degrade with playing and you can also do some post processing (noise reduction for video and audio, frame accurate cutting). Firewire is still a capture, but the advantage is that the built in DV bridge type jobby on the camcorder will do a better job of the conversion to digital, and you'll get less frame drops than using a built in capture card.

[hitechjunkie]

sorry shabubu, firewire is a direct digital transfer, not a capture...

[NeVeRLiFt]

If you got a powerful enough computer the AIW Radeon is a very nice card.
I can capture using a wide variety of codecs and I'm loving the quality!
No time wasted converting. I wish ATI would make a SVCD setting like they did
for VCD.
Here's a ruff guide of what I can do. You capture using Avi_io, Virtualdub or
ATI's MMC. I use MMC for my mpeg capture(you can also use NanoDVR and CineplayerDVR).
NanoDVR has a SVCD setting so the capture does not need muxed. CineplayerDVR can also
capture to ASF. I use MMC, Avi_io and Virtualdub to capture to DivX, Huffyuv and Mjpeg.
I'm more than happy with the mpeg1 & 2 and divX captures I make. The quality for the divX
is just crazy and has great file size. I dont bother capturing then converting. But you can and
if you use Nandub or divX 4.02 then the divX converts look great. And for mpeg use TMPGEnc.
Have fun!

[Tommy]

I is possible to use the ati to get a nice capture, but a lot of it has to do with what you are capturing. If i capture (or my friend who has a AIW radeon, I have a AIW 12from a 8mm camcorder or a vhs it doesn't look that great however if i capture from my HI-8 it looks pretty good in a vcd (I no longer due this since I picked up a MiniDV camcorder).

But try avi io, it can be found in the tools section, it works great.



Shabubu,

Sorry but Firewire is not a capture but only a means of which you can transfer digital data from point a to point b. Data from a dv bridge or a digital camcorder is already in a digital format before it is transfered.

[Shabubu]

What I meant was that the Camcorder does the capture bit, then transfers via the firewire. Sorry bout the confusion but it was early

[rminialoff]

I think I got it now. All the tools/software in the world will not improve the output, if the source is not good. In this case the source is a *capture* which in my mind will never be great.

As someone said, the first capture occurs when my camcorder records, which is a high quality capture. But I then capture the original a second time on my PC. The second capture can't be better than the first and will logically be a little worse

The best way is not to do the second capture at all (i.e. with an ATI type capture card), instead transfer the digital information from camera to computer through the firewire connection (a process that does not degrade the data).

I guess I just have to lower my expectations when it comes to capturing. To me when I view a VCD from the capture on my TV the quality is a little less than VHS. Is it only me that thinks *that* level of quality is not so great? I hear some people on this site saying the quality from the capture is great. Maybe one mans great is another mans not so great.

Add to all this, that this is the first time I have done a capture and made a VCD so I had no idea what to expect. Maybe with a little more experince I will be raving about the quality.

Anyway, I appreciate everyones help. I will try *avi io* but I don't expect to see a dramatic improvement.

Thanks

[hitechjunkie]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-24 08:50:52, rminialoff wrote:
I guess I just have to lower my expectations when it comes to capturing. To me when I view a VCD from the capture on my TV the quality is a little less than VHS. Is it only me that thinks *that* level of quality is not so great? I hear some people on this site saying the quality from the capture is great. Maybe one mans great is another mans not so great.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

have u tried capturing to raw avi segments, loading the segments into vdub and trying out some of the video filters? you might be surprised at the improvements some of these filters can actually make (smart smoother, xsharpen and brightness/contrast)

[Dave B]

It is indeed true that capturing video the way most of us do here is a crude, analogue process that will always result in some quality degradation from the original source.

Digital video is now being brought into homes via DVD, satellite receivers, cable companies and digital camcorders. Soon capturing will not be the analogue to digital process it is at the moment but simply the transfer of digital video files from one medium to another. Recently, Sky Broadcasting have released a Satellite receiver box in the UK which can directly record the digital MPEG files as they are broadcast into the home and then replay the recorded MPEG at a later time.

Most people still have a huge amount of material stored on analogue tapes and the best (only!) way to get this into digital format is via capturing. Unfortunately (as is often the case with analogue video) it’s a bit of a hit and miss process and needs quite a bit of tweaking to get good results. Unless you are a digital video wizard, it will be very difficult to get the capture quality as good as the source but there are lots of clever people here who will help you get captures with quality very, very close to that of the source.

[rminialoff]

>have u tried capturing to raw avi segments, loading the >segments into vdub and trying out some of the video >filters?

Have not tried yet but I plan to do so, thanks.

>Unless you are a digital video wizard, it will be very >difficult to get the capture quality as good as the source >but there are lots of clever people here who will help you >get captures with quality very, very close to that of the >source.

If I could get capture qualities that are close to that of the source I would be very happy. In fact I'm not unhappy with the quality now, just a little disappointed. In fact its a relief for me to get my tapes finally on CD. At least now I have backups, which was my main goal. Viewing them on TV is just a bonus.

So I will try the suggestions I have received and stay plugged into this web site.

Thanks for all the comments and help.