CCE dvd reencoding...

[tsantsa]

Ok, so I know this may have been covered but from what I understand CCE is a re-encoding tool, while dvd2one, cloneDVD and many others are transcoding tools. Is this correct?
My second assumption is that, in general, re-encoding, while taking longer, has much better results than transcoders. Is this also correct?

Now for the banger: I have looked everywhere for a reasonbly sensible or easy to follow guide to backing up a dvd-9 to a dvdr but each guide I try to follow loses me. For instance, this guide: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/167502.php loses me by using all of this dvd2svcd stuff... This one: http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/maestro2.htm makes life almost as hard. Maybe I am a dummy, but is there a simpler gui for making dvd to dvdr copies for CCE? I mean it shouldn't be that difficult in this day and age. I mean if normal transcoding programs can run a simple interface, why not a re-encoder?

Also part of why I bring up CCE up is that from what I hear it is the best. I may be wrong on that count.

Can someone shed some light in my dim head please?

[Kdiddy]

Here's my opinion and take it for that. Reencoding is simply better than transcoding for numerous reasons. However, it still boils down to a time vs. quality ratio.

For me, if I'm doing 1 movie to DVDR, I use a transcoder. There is roughly only about 15% quality loss if I do ONLY the movie and maybe main menu. The time however is very short. So I can live with the quality loss.

When I do 2 movies to DVDR, I use my CCE method. Longer in length of time, but quality maintained is much better than that of transcoder.

So again, you have to ask yourself under your given situation what is more important, time or quality. The guides here and at Doom9 are good.

[bugster]

The output from a transcoder is a set of DVD-Video compliant files. The output from an encoder is an mpeg video (maybe with audio).

With an encoder you have to firts know how to rip the movie from the DVD and store it in a format that can then be fed to the encoder. You have to know how to configure the encoder to get the best quality and correct size from it. Then you end up with an mpeg video file. This is no good for DVD so it has to Authored (add menus and chapters, if you want) before it can be burnt. There are a lot more variables and a lot more complication to re-encoding a DVD9 to fit on a DVDr thatn using a transcoder. Also you generally lose all the menus and extras.

If you really want to go down this route (and with longer movies it generally does give a slightly better quality than the current crop of transcoders) then persever with the DVD2SVCD guide, its a lot simpler than it looks once you have everything configured.

[tsantsa]

Well, for an example: My brother has a movie that was a multi pass CCE job. It looks fantastic. I tried to do the the same movie using a transcoder (cloneDVD-which incidentally is the best out there) but it's quality, while very nice, simply did not match up with the CCE reencode.

What are other re-encoding proggies out there? Is this Nero Recode thing just a transcoder or a reencoder?

[FulciLives]

Well, for an example: My brother has a movie that was a multi pass CCE job. It looks fantastic. I tried to do the the same movie using a transcoder (cloneDVD-which incidentally is the best out there) but it's quality, while very nice, simply did not match up with the CCE reencode.

What are other re-encoding proggies out there? Is this Nero Recode thing just a transcoder or a reencoder?

Nero Recode is a transcoder and from what I understand it is from the same person (or persons) that did DVDShrink so one can sort of think of it as an updated version of DVDShrink though last I heard there will be at least one more version of DVDShrink comming out.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Kdiddy]

Well, for an example: My brother has a movie that was a multi pass CCE job. It looks fantastic. I tried to do the the same movie using a transcoder (cloneDVD-which incidentally is the best out there) but it's quality, while very nice, simply did not match up with the CCE reencode.

When done correctly, this will ALWAYS be the case.

What are other re-encoding proggies out there? Is this Nero Recode thing just a transcoder or a reencoder?

Most people here seem to love TMPG. Nero Recode is a transcoder. Take some time to look at the guides, glossary, & tools to your left. They pretty much cover everything that appears you want to know.

[adam]

bugster you don't lose the menu's if you choose to re-encode to downsize your DVD9 to DVD5. There's no reason to even touch the menu's unless they are very big, and even then there are programs which will downsize them for you. There's never any need to actually reauthor the menu's. You can re-encode all the other vobs and assuming you match the same structure (same number of PGCS etc...) and update the IFO's, then the menu's still function as normal. All of my backups have the exact same features as the original DVDs.

Unfortunately there really isn't any easy way. Right now you've really got to understand how DVDs work and know how to rebuild the vobs like the originals. Once you get over the learning curve its like riding a bike, but there's no avoiding putting in the work. In my opinion its well worth it. I can definitely see a quality difference between a CCE re-encoded movie and one transcoded in DVD Shrink or IC, etc... To my eyes there's really no comparison.

[adyf]

Have a look at this guide by chickenman. Its easy to follow and gives excellent results.

http://www.dvdrbase.com/showthread.php?t=26515

PS you will have to register first.

[bugster]

bugster you don't lose the menu's if you choose to re-encode to downsize your DVD9 to DVD5. There's no reason to even touch the menu's unless they are very big, and even then there are programs which will downsize them for you. There's never any need to actually reauthor the menu's. You can re-encode all the other vobs and assuming you match the same structure (same number of PGCS etc...) and update the IFO's, then the menu's still function as normal. All of my backups have the exact same features as the original DVDs.

Unfortunately there really isn't any easy way. Right now you've really got to understand how DVDs work and know how to rebuild the vobs like the originals. Once you get over the learning curve its like riding a bike, but there's no avoiding putting in the work. In my opinion its well worth it. I can definitely see a quality difference between a CCE re-encoded movie and one transcoded in DVD Shrink or IC, etc... To my eyes there's really no comparison.

Ok, you don't HAVE to lose the menus etc, but it looks like a lot of work and knowledge is needed to keep them. Compared to useing a transcoder like DVDshrink anyways.

[IvIark]

When done correctly, this will ALWAYS be the case.

Have to disagree with that. Encoder outputs are usually better but certainly not always - sometimes transcoders are perfectly comparable. I've done a number of movie only discs where I literally only needed to shave 5% off the video stream. Recently I've been using Rejig almost exclusively for this as I can see absolutely no difference between it and a CCE encode with this small reduction. Of course if you're knocking it down by 25% then it's another matter altogether.

Mark

[Kdiddy]

When done correctly, this will ALWAYS be the case.

Have to disagree with that. Encoder outputs are usually better but certainly not always - sometimes transcoders are perfectly comparable. I've done a number of movie only discs where I literally only needed to shave 5% off the video stream. Recently I've been using Rejig almost exclusively for this as I can see absolutely no difference between it and a CCE encode with this small reduction. Of course if you're knocking it down by 25% then it's another matter altogether.

You are speaking in subjective terms, I am not. Just because one does not see the difference, doesn't mean there isnt one. If you read my original post, you see I said basically the same thing as you. That if you aren't shaving off too much of the video stream, the time doing a CCE encode is not worth minor and usually unnoticible quality difference. But there is a difference.

[IvIark]

You are speaking in subjective terms, I am not. Just because one does not see the difference, doesn't mean there isnt one.

We were both speaking in subjective terms (yours is only an opinion too) but I have some objectivity to back mine up. In my opinion during visual checks there is no difference (subjective), using PSNR AVISynth scripts or programs like SSIM to compare the two outputs, the transcoded MPEG can quite frequently have a closer similarity to the original than the re-encoded one because it doesn't compress I and P frames like re-encoding does (objective).

Mark

[Kdiddy]

You are speaking in subjective terms, I am not. Just because one does not see the difference, doesn't mean there isnt one.

We were both speaking in subjective terms (yours is only an opinion too) but I have some objectivity to back mine up. In my opinion during visual checks there is no difference (subjective), using PSNR AVISynth scripts or programs like SSIM to compare the two outputs, the transcoded MPEG can quite frequently have a closer similarity to the original than the re-encoded one because it doesn't compress I and P frames like re-encoding does (objective).

Mark

I'm not going to go round & round with you on this. If the original poster truly wants to know, he can read for himself how a transcoder vs. encoder quantatively stack up. And again, whether he wants to take the TIME to notice the difference is completely up to him.

[mrbass]

Try dvd2dvd (aka dvd2svcd)
http://mrbass.org/dvd2dvd
Not so hard to do it but it's intimidating as heck to get started and you'll probably be in over your head with options. But leave most on default and just try one chapter to test it out so you won't waste hours upon hours only to find out your subs aren't working, etc.

[tsantsa]

Something of note: I have a 32 inch tv. It is not very large compared to a 55 hdtv. Therefore, I don't believe I will see AS much of the problems that come from a 65% transcode. I know that if you have a larger screen, the artifacts and macroblocks are also magnified making themselves known to the 'average' viewer, thereby disturbing the viewing experience. I say average viewer to NOT include those who back-up the discs. We who make backups will ALWAYS be on the lookout for artifacts! Hell I know I do!

I did the Indiana Jones trilogy recently and all of the movies had to be compressed via clonedvd to, on average, 50%. I did notice some problem areas, but being that my television is 32 inch, I think I can live with it. (On a sidenote: I also tried the same movies with DVDshrink and IC8 just for s**ts and giggles to see how they would handle it. Dvdshrink, even with it's so called 'deep analysis' looked bad. IC8, on the other hand looked like I ran over the dvd with a dump truck. A few times. This is why I rate CloneDVD as the best transcoder.)

I don't know if I am willing to spend the time necessary to re-encode with CCE(not including reencoding time). I will play with it a bit just to play around, but I cannot possibly see myself doing this with every large 9>5 backup that I need to do.

However, if a crafty programmer were to ease the interface needed to do such backups I will hop on the truck for the long haul because I have seen the results.

[bugster]

However, if a crafty programmer were to ease the interface needed to do such backups I will hop on the truck for the long haul because I have seen the results.

DVD2SVCD can be used to significantly ease the pain of such backups. Some sort of re-authoring is still required, Ifoedit being the simplest (and cheapest!). If all you want is movie only with Max quality, once set up, its fairly straight forward.