An idea that struck me last night. Comments?

[SupaCoopa]

Let's assume our goal is to make the near-perfect backup to end all.
As always...

We will keep all menus and extras (except maybe the really crap ones) but we will get rid of any additional spoken languages and those irritating warnings and logos. And of course we want the best possible quality for the main movie so we won't be using just a single-click tool.

STEP 1
To begin with, we will first backup the dual-layer DVD using a fast one-click tool. We will throw away any unwanted audio streams to gain some space and it would be nice if we could set different re-compresssion ratios for each title, so that we can give more space to the movie. So, DVD Shrink seems a wise choice, doesn't it?
After the tool does it's job, we have a new DVD small enough to be burnt on a blank, with all the menus and contents of the original. We have also kept subtitles (they don't take much space anyway) and chapters. But the main movie quality is just not good for us, we're CCE-heads...

STEP 2
Now it's the time to strip out warnings and logos because they bug us and possibly get rid of any unwanted extras like trailers and stuff to gain some more space. We could use DVDStripper (haven't used it but seems promising) or one of 2Cool's methods. If we need to, we can use MenuEdit to get rid of menu buttons pointing to those eliminated extras. The question here lies as to how much space we will really gain by losing some extra material we don't care about. If before removing the odd trailers and TV spots we had a 4.30GB VIDEO_TS folder and afterwards we have a 3.90GB one, then I believe it's worth the effort. We have to know how much space we gained, so that we can use it on the next step.

STEP 3
This is the fun part. In brief, we will use DVD2DVDR with CCE on the original VIDEO_TS folder. But it will calculate the optimal bitrate and this is not good for us since DVD2DVDR assumes we do movie-only backup and we have all the other stuff taking up space. So we have to know the target size of main movie video stream in our backup folder with menus etc. I know of no other way to do this but open the new VIDEO_TS folder we have ended up with after STEP 2, with DVD2DVDR and choose main movie. We take a note of the video size it reports on up right corner of the first tab and add any space we gained in STEP 2. So, let's say we calculated the new video stream size should be 3.200.000 kb. We'll use a bitrate calculator and we'll be informed of the optimal target bitrate for our backup. Now we open the ORIGINAL VIDEO_TS folder with DVD2DVDR, we choose main movie and on the second tab we input the bitrate our calculator gave us. After a couple of hours of fine CCE work, what do we have? A new m2v file, finely encoded by our trusted friend (that's CCE) and a complete backup with menus and extras and stuff in which we don't like the quality of the main movie. So, the next step comes logical...

STEP 4
All we have to do now is replace the "bad" main movie video stream our one-click tool gave us, with the "nice" one CCE made! I believe IFOupdate (or is it IFOedit?) can easily do this. After all these steps, we finally have a full-featured backup but with the main movie in true CCE quality. Of course a main-movie only backup would be easier to make and of even higher quality, but we have kept menus and subs and chapters and everything and we haven't lost a week trying to re-assemble them in Maestro or Scenarist. Fire up your favourite burning application and enjoy!

If anybody is still with me, I would very much like to know what do you think of the above proposed method. I haven't tried it yet, since the idea struck me last night just before I fall asleep, but I plan to test it soon on a difficult movie with nice complex menus like Star Wars. I just didn't like the single-click result of InstantCopy or DVDShrink in this movie and I don't like a main-movie only backup without menus either. So, to my mind, this is the best of both worlds. Results to be posted here soon(ish)...

Any comments/ideas heartily welcome

[Bodene]

Looks exciting and adventurous, but u went to alot of trouble you really didn't need to just to make a copy. Here are my suggestions for doing it......

1) Use DVD Shrink to rip and compress the entire disc. Then remove all the subtitles (tho they don't take up *much* space, they DO take up space), languages u don't comprehend, and any extras u don't want. Then burn it with Nero or RecordNowDx. Takes about 45 minutes.

2) Use DVD Decrypter and rip the DVD in FILE mode (entire disc). Then process/compress it with DVD2One at a variable rate, remove all the crap u don't want (subtitles and foreign soundtracks), then burn. Takes about 45 minutes.

3) Use DVD Decrypter in FILE mode to rip the entire disc. Then process/compress it with DVD Shrink as we did in number 1. Takes about 55 minutes.

[MackemX]

I think SupaCoopa is getting rid of all the crap on the DVD and not explaining a 1:1 content backup method. He is suggesting using a hybrid method to get as high a quality backup as you can, regardless of user and processing time

CloneDVD, Nero Recode and all the rest one clickers do not allow you to do this

the 'best' method for me is a hybrid and I use 5 tools of which 3 are free and the other 2 cost a total of £15

this gives me a higher quality backup that a one clicker cannot provide with around 10-15 minutes usertime and maybe an extra 10-20 mins processing

[Gazorgan]

What is the preoccupation with menu's? I simply don't get it.

As to extra's.......well it's all marketing. I mean you release DVD's this way:

1) Release the Movie on a basic DVD.
2) Release the Movie with 'Extras' and Behind the Scene footage.
3) Release the Directors Cut version.
4) Anniversary Edition.

You get the idea. A lot of effort for 'extras'. It's a lot easier to have a DVD of just extras, especially if you want to to keep the menus. You do realize the trend is going towards completely full DVD9's (x2) just to make your idea difficult.

[SupaCoopa]

Gazorgan, some DVD menus are really works of art to me. And some extras are worth watching again and again. Of course some other menus are crap and some other extras are crap too. In the latter case I simply get rid of everything and re-author the movie, making my own beautiful menus.

This is probably just me, but I like the general idea of a DVD having a menu and not start playing the movie right away as if it was VHS. I do sit down and watch a scene or two of several DVDs in a row and I like to have a scene access menu with nice little thumbnails. As for splitting movie and extras to two DVDs, if a movie is big enough (and "difficult" enough) to justify it, why not? But that would be too easy, wouldn't it?
By the way, I have yet to come across a two-dual-layer-discs DVD set, but that might just be the case in my under-developed country...

Bodene, the whole point is that one-click tool back-ups just aren't as good as they can get...

Greetings to MackemX

[MackemX]

last time I did a poll it was a very close call between movie+menu+extras and movie-only people. It's all down to personal preferences but people from both sides must accept that people choose whichever method suits them and not what suits anyone else . I find it hard to believe why some guys still spend hours reauthoring a DVD when it would be cheaper just to buy another copy due the the amount of lost 'free' time?. To each his own I guess

some movies still need the extras to work with the interactive stuff along with the menu's to activate them. Matrix is one example but there are plenty more

if you cut the unwanted crap from most DVD's then you can get at least 70% for the main movie with quite a few DVD's and that quality is also acceptable for most. If not then people just split it to 2 as it has been said. Some DVD's are already like with the movie (numerous audio and subs!!!) on one DVD and the extras on the other so why not make you own dual set out of a single DVD?

why don't they just release cheaper movie-only DVD's without the frilly bits but then again they wouldn't make as much money would they, which is what it is all about at the end of the day

Merry Christmas to all

[dcsos]

SupaCoop...
how would this method preserve chapter stops and angle changes in the original file
Wouldn't the CCE encoding you contemplate destroy the MENU FUNCTIONALITY of the original movie (SCENE SELECTION MENU etc)

[cng_pce]

SupaCoop...
how would this method preserve chapter stops and angle changes in the original file
Wouldn't the CCE encoding you contemplate destroy the MENU FUNCTIONALITY of the original movie (SCENE SELECTION MENU etc)

I'm a complete newbie, but I've noticed that DVD2DVDR outputs a DVD Maestro (.chp) chapter file, which leads me to think if you use DVD Maestro (instead of DVD2DVDR's choice of Scenarist) to author the movie VOBs, chapters would align perfectly with the menu (after a quick update with IFOUpdate too).

[Bodene]

MackemX.....I totally agree with u on a couple points u made.

Sumthin I've noticed during my months of lurking here is the fact that most people simply cannot just make a simple copy of a DVD or a movie. That process is so easy my 10 yr old kids can do it without me even being present. But I'm dumbfounded by how some folks feel they MUST tinker with removing this without effecting that, or want to edit this a certain way and insist upon using some hard to use software. Then they spend hours on the forums, exasperated, desperate for help, trying to find some way to accomplish these seemingly necessary tasks.

As u sed...to each his own. But it never ceases to amaze me.