Encoding and burning VHS captures to DVD. Whats better?

[donkey_puncher]

I've captured a lot of old home movie footage from VHS using PicVideo Mjpeg compressor set to 19 and resolution 720x480. The quality is marginal at best due to the source material. I'd like to burn this all to DVD and I'm wondering what my best encoding options are. Would it be a waste of time to encode to full mpeg2 720x480 or would it be just as good to encode to half D1. Keep in mind that I'll be watching it on analog TV and that the quality is already fairly bad. I guess the one plus of encoding at half D1 is that I'd be able to fit more video on each DVD.

Any comments? Thanks.

[greengate69]

the half D1 resolution won't let you fit any more in the DVD - only the bitrate you select will determine how much you fit on.

However, would recommend encoding at half D1 (in fact I would do the original capture at half D1, but I don't suppose you want to do that again!)

Given VHS has a low resolution to start with, there is no point encoding at full DVD resolution in my opinion. Encoding at half D1 means you are allocating more bits per pixel at any given bitrate.

I would frameserve from Virtualdub into your encoder of choice. I would recommend adding the flaxen VHS filter under video/filters in virtualdub. Try playing around with other filters on small test encodes. You can trim noise from around the capture with null transform/cropping. Depending on the source material you may want to try a temporal smoother filter. In the encoder, I would start with a bitrate of 4000 and go up or down, and determine at what bitrate you are happy with the results.

I have had good results with the above method, with the encoded DVD indistinguishable (to me) from source.

Good luck

[donkey_puncher]

I just tried recapturing some video at half D1 (352x480) and when I play it back it looks rediculous. It's much taller than it is wide. Is this supposed to be like this and will it look right once it gets to TV? I'm using IUVCR for the capture. Maybe I'm not setting things up right. Please advise.

[greengate69]

Don't worry - I am guessing you are previwing in WMP- which will not display it properly. As long as you encode to half D1 spec (which is a DVD standard) it will look fine once burnt and played on your DVD - I promise !

[DVWannaB]

I just tried recapturing some video at half D1 (352x480) and when I play it back it looks rediculous. It's much taller than it is wide. Is this supposed to be like this and will it look right once it gets to TV? I'm using IUVCR for the capture. Maybe I'm not setting things up right. Please advise.

Yes it is supposed to look like that. All it is doing is playing back in its proper aspect ratio or some such jargon (remember 352 vs 720 - about half the resolution size). But yes it is fine. It will play fine on your TV set, as your DVD player decodes and send proper definition to your TV set.

[trevlac]

This kind of stuff seems to be a hot topic.


I'd have to generally agree with greengate69, but your results may not line up with what was said.

• HHR (Half D1) has enough luma resolution to cover the best VHS. On chroma it may be a hair short, but not worth the worry.
• Dropping to 352 implies you are also going to drop the bitrate. It's fair to clarify, but one is not wrong by saying 352 is smaller than 720.
• Analog capture devices all 'capture' at 1 size and then resize to what you ask. The question is what size they cap at, and do they resize well.
• My BT878/BTwincap captures 712. If I ask for less than 368 (like 352), it does a poor job on the resize.
• If you use the iuLab drivers for a BT8x8 chip, they cap at 688. I'd bet they also have a resize problem at 352.

If you want to get it 100% right, cap at 688 add 8 pixel borders to each side and resize to 352.

[Gazorgan]

Something to remember when working with 1/2D1.

Your computer uses a monitor that has square pixels. Your TV has rectangles. That's why some things look tall/skinny or short/fat. Don't worry about it. Ever wonder why an SVCD at 480x480 looks okay on a 4:3 aspect TV? 720x480 can be both 4:3 and 16:9, ever wonder about that?

Encode to 1/2 D1 resolution, but make sure you set your DAR (aspect ratio flag) to 4:3 (16:9 is also possible, but captures generally are generally 4:3). It will look like crap on your computer with most AVI players, but in PowerDVD it will look normal. Ever watch interlaced video on you computer? Looks terrible until you see it in an interlaced player (PowerDVD/WinDVD).

Give it a try on a few RW's and see.

[trevlac]

All it is doing is playing back in its proper aspect ratio or some such jargon (remember 352 vs 720 - about half the resolution size). But yes it is fine. It will play fine on your TV set, as your DVD player decodes and send proper definition to your TV set.

It's not 100% fine. You may not care, but it's fairly straight forward.

1) NTSC source goes to your capture card as 1 long continuous line.
2) Capture card takes a part of that and turns it into pixels (at most 712)
3) If you choose 352, it shrinks it.
4) If you choose 720 it streatches it
5) Put it on a DVD and pipe it to your TV. The player has to take the pixels and turn them back into a continuous line. For 720, the line will be longer than your original analog source.
6) For 352 it gets streatched to 704
7) The player then overlays the sides or pads with black to get about 712

1)  ____________
2)   ----------
3)     -------
4) ---------------
5) _______________
6)   ___________
7)  ____________

The only place you can muck up the process is by not knowing what your card/driver caps at and thus not capping at that and padding/croping to 720/704. (muck up in #3 or 4)

By the way, you can't muck it up much by going with 704 or 352. I say this just in case you don't know your card/driver or you don't trust my 712/688 numbers.

Edit: I wanted to qualify my last statement about 704 and 352 being ok. 352 is not ok on my BT8x8 card. The card/driver combo does not resize well. To be safe, use 704 or test.

[trevlac]

Your computer uses a monitor that has square pixels. Your TV has rectangles. That's why some things look tall/skinny or short/fat. Don't worry about it.

True. But this effect shows in anything that is not exactly 4:3. 640x480 is, 720, 480, 352, are not. This does not fully explain the difference between the last 3.

Ever wonder why an SVCD at 480x480 looks okay on a 4:3 aspect TV?

Answer: the spec tells the DVD player to 'streatch' it on the TV scan line. Same goes for 720, 704, 352. The DVD player knows what to do.

720x480 can be both 4:3 and 16:9, ever wonder about that?

Bringing this up confuses the matter. Answer is the DVD player knows to streatch the 720 more if you set the DAR to 16:9. But did you know this means wide screen DVDs are a lower resolution on a 4:3 TV and a 16:9 TV ?

[donkey_puncher]

Wow. Thanks for all of the info. I'm gonna try a lot of it and see how things work.

I do have more questions though. I read in another post that with my Avermedia card it might be a good idea to capture at 704x480 and then add 8 pixel wide bars on each side to get back to 720. I think I understand why as it has something to do with stretch, but I'm not sure how. I captured a 1 hour 21 minute vhs clip with virtual Vcr and used mjpeg compression set to 19. The resultant file was about 18GB. How do I go about adding the 8 pixel vertical bars to make the video 720x480? I looked around in Virtual Dub and couldn't find the feature. I did use the faxon VHS filter to help imporve the video, but I couldn't figure anything else out. I started to try and run the filter but it appeared that it might take days to process the 18GB file. I've got a fast computer (Athlon 2.8 w 1GB ram), but I'm not willing to wait 6 hours just to apply the filter.

I plan on encoding to mpeg2 half D1 in TMPGEnc. Is there a way I can just encode to mpeg and at the same time add the vertical bars? Also, I'd like to split this huge video into smaller files, but I'm not really sure the best method to use. Suggestions?

[vhelp]

Hay guys.. TGIF all

@ donkey_Puncher,

. I did use the faxon VHS filter to help imporve the video, but I couldn't figure anything else out. I started to try and run the filter but it appeared that it might take days to process the 18GB file. I've got a fast computer (Athlon 2.8 w 1GB ram), but I'm not willing to wait 6 hours just to apply the filter.

ha ha.. I remember 2 years ago, when people were talking about 48hours
to encode (as the norm) but today, you can't even wait 6 hours
I can't wait to read someone NOT wanting to wait 1 hour. That will
be the kisser
.
.
As for the flaXen's VHS filter, I like using it, but it takes a bit of tweaking
the source, as each source is different in many ways (of which I won't go
into here) but as a "general" tip, I would try and use low values all
around. The defaults will creat too much pixel trail, specially during panning,
and also, the higher your values (ie, the defaults) the slower the filter's
processing, due to the added number of values required w/in it's algorithym
of things
And, There's no perfect setting w/ this filter (or any other) again, due to the
nature of each sources issues (as i mentioned above) But, what I would do
is note the difference in each project and what you had to do to get your
source looking the way you "gave in" w/in reason, and use that as your
guide for those following Capture VHS fun projects
.
.
In fact, at the moment, I won't touch my VHS fun projects w/ any
other filters except for flaXen's VHS - those that I finalize to a given
project.
.
.
I'll be working towards DVD authoring, since I have a DVD burner, but at
the unfortunate haps, DVD burning is not allow under Windows 98. And,
since I won't got higher, cause I'm very satisfied w/ my working setup,
I'll wait till someone creates a DVD burning app. Nero doesn't burn DVDr
or DVDRW's. So, I'm only able to burn CDR/RW's
So, I'm hoping that someone does create a Windows 98 version soon

Have a great weekend everybody.
-vhelp 2097

[trevlac]

1) I read in another post that with my Avermedia card it might be a good idea to capture at 704x480 and then add 8 pixel wide bars on each side to get back to 720.

2) How do I go about adding the 8 pixel vertical bars to make the video 720x480?

3) Is there a way I can just encode to mpeg and at the same time add the vertical bars?

4) Also, I'd like to split this huge video into smaller files, but I'm not really sure the best method to use. Suggestions?

1) If you use the BTwincap drivers, I'd cap at 368 and crop 8 off of each side using the built int Virtual VCR crop filter. It's under the filters tab. This has some negatives, like the aspect is a bit off (not much if you use the BTwincap driver) and you don't have as much info to filter (vs keeping 704). However It will make the initial file 9Gig and vdub filters will be much faster, because there is only half the info to filter.

(straight 352 will probably be bad on the aver. That's why 368.)

2) I believe you can do this with the internal resize filter in vdub. Change the width of the canvas size.

3) I think you can do this in TMPGEnc, but I don't use it.

4) You can cut up a file with vdub. Just mark the start and end and do a direct stream copy.

[donkey_puncher]

If I decide to capture at half D1 (352x480) then what bitrate should I choose. Keep in mind I'm captuering from VHS. I just want a good happy medium. 4000? 2000? ????????

[nasdravi]

hey donkey...

If your source is good quality go for 3000 . If your source is noisy go for 4000 .

I usually go for 3300 VBR which gives a 4 GB file with 3 hours video

cheers!