Framerate problem with CCE

[atlas]

Hi everybody.

I have a problem and I don't understand how I can solve it but I'm sure it's an easy problem...
I want to backup a NTSC zone 1 DVD: Kiki's delivery service to one DVDR.

Here's some info that i have got in BitRateViewer with one VOB of the movie:

Stream type: MPEG-2  MP@ML  VBR
Resolution: 720*480
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Generic  
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 9800000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112 
Constrained param. flag: No 
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: No
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Linear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive

So i have:
-rip the movie on my hard disk.
-Created a DVD2AVI project (Dvd2avi tells me that it's a 99% FILM, so i have forced the video to FILM and now the framerate is 23.976.. I guess that it's correct...)
-Created an AVS script like this:

LoadPlugin("MPEGDecoder.dll") 
MPEGSource("projet.d2v") 
ConvertToYUY2()

Next, in CCE I have enabled this option:

Video Settings:
---------------
GOP SEQUENCE M:3    N/M:4
ADD sequence end code: Check
DVD video Complian: Check
Frame rate> I don't know what to put here. I have tried both 23.976 and 29.97... But almost the same bad result (see below).

Quality Settings:
-----------------
Intra Bloc DC precision 10
Block scanning order: Zizag (like in the bitrateviewer info)
Progressive frame flag: Check (maybe I should not check It? I check it because it's write "progressive" in the bitrateviewver info)

General Info:
-------------
Aspect Ration: 16:9
3:2 Pulldown: DON'T checked ( usully, i use pulldown.exe after CCE )
MPEG2 (ES, Multipass VBR) with 4 passes.

The result after the encoding: (I look the result in VirtualDub Mod)>>>

The movie compression work great. I have the complete movie BUT, after the end of the movie, i have a LONG LONG balc screen with an error of AVISYNTH: Avisynth: "Caught an access viloation at 0x11c4521f, attempting to read from 0x126f5000"
But after longs hours i think i can understand why:
CCE tells me that the movie have 185613 Frames
and tho movie time is 1 hour 43 minutes and 7 seconds
So in second: 6187 seconds

The black screen with the error start aproximatively at the frame number 148231.

Why? because i think that: 6187 seconds * 23.976 fps = 148231 (approximatively)


All this weird problem is due to the framerate?

So that's why i have tried, in CCE, to forced the framerate to 23.976 AND to 29.97 but the problem is still here

I think it's because i understand the "pulldown and telecine" concept only at 20%


I don't know which other options to try to correct this problem.

Thx you for you help!!

[FOO]

Do it with DVDShrink in 20 minutes

[atlas]

Thx for ur answer but i want to do it with CEE and MAESTRO cause i want to add french subtitle.

[Skynet107]

Try taking your DVD2AVI project and loading it into VFAPI Convert, then open the saved "AVI" file from VFAPI Convert into CCE. That has solved strange encoding problems before. Let us know if that works.

[atlas]

Ok thx, i will try tonight!
Thx you

[BJ_M]

DVD video Complian: do not Check
frame rate : 23.97
Progressive frame flag: yes

use pulldown.exe on completed file ..

but your source has pulldown -- you would have to remove that first - which you can do in CCE at the same time as encoding (the pulldown "function" in CCE is for inverse pulldown (removal) - not adding pulldown) or do it before encoding ..

[atlas]

So i check pulldown in CCE. Ok!

But i should uncheck the DVD compliant option please?

And can you explain me how you know that my source has already pulldown? cause i want to know for my next movie if i must do the same thing...

Thx!!!!

[BJ_M]

your source has pulldown because you said in dvd2avi 99% film and bitrate viewer says 29.97 frame rate = pulldown applied

[atlas]

So i have tried your method but only with one litle part of the movie. I don't know if the time problem works now but i have another pb: When i open the m2v files created by CCE in virtualdubmod: I have a problem about interlacing i think cause somes frame look like to this picture:

And this ONLY when I check "3:2 pulldown detection".
Nota: I don't change the default setting cause i don't understand anything in those options....

I have also to let the 3:2 pulldown detection and change different option like disabled "progressive frame flag" and also try with the framerate to 29.97.. but it's same.
Next i have try to apply the pulldown.exe on the output..... but the problem is here again...
At last, i have tried to make a new dvd2avi project and don't Force To Film (set to NONE) but i have still the same pb...


In dvd2avi I should check Force to Film? or maybe i must leave to None? i don'T know what to do

Have you got any idea please?

[FOO]

You need to watch it on the TV

[atlas]

?
So i can't see it on my PC?
But all my previous dvd don't have this strange verticale line...

[FOO]

What vertical line ? Why don't you post one of YOUR pictures.
The picture you put up (from 100fps.com) does not have a vertical line
it is interlacing which will not show up on your TV

[FulciLives]

DVD video Complian: do not Check
frame rate : 23.97
Progressive frame flag: yes

use pulldown.exe on completed file ..

but your source has pulldown -- you would have to remove that first - which you can do in CCE at the same time as encoding (the pulldown "function" in CCE is for inverse pulldown (removal) - not adding pulldown) or do it before encoding ..

Actually this is all correct BUT for one thing. Since the original is a progressive NTSC DVD that was processed with DVD2AVI using FORCE FILM you do not need to use the inverse pulldown removal that is one of the options of CCE

So drop that part.

When you are done you will have a progressive MPV video file that must be run through PULLDOWN.EXE

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
Wanted to add one more thing ... in DVD2AVI use YUV 4:2:2 mode and then TV SCALE and you can drop the last line from your AviSynth script ... the one that says, "ConvertToYUY2()"

Also some versions of DVD2AVI have errors ... make sure you are using DVD2AVI version 1.76 as newer versions are "buggy"

[BJ_M]

yes -- your right .. i forgot he was frame serving , i would be encoding the source files and would use the inverse pulldown ... he would have already done so using force film ... but i did mention doing it outside cce (meaning dvd2avi) -- should have been more clear ...

what is buggy about dvd2avi 1.77.* ? (just so i know as i use it on occasion)

[FulciLives]

yes -- your right .. i forgot he was frame serving , i would be encoding the source files and would use the inverse pulldown ... he would have already done so using force film ... but i did mention doing it outside cce (meaning dvd2avi) -- should have been more clear ...

what is buggy about dvd2avi 1.77.* ? (just so i know as i use it on occasion)

I don't really know what is "up" with version of DVD2AVI beyond 1.76 but I know of several people who have had problems using newer versions but then when they use 1.76 the problems go away.

Usually the problem is an error with TMPGEnc (perhaps CCE as well but most seem to be with TMPGEnc) not being able to correctly read the D2V file.

I've read more than one post saying that anything other than 1.76 is a "bad" thing.

So I always use 1.76 and have been using that version for a LONG time now without issues.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BJ_M]

thanks for the info - ill keep an eye out ..

- also, checking the inverse pulldown in CCE , while i think of it, would not of mattered anyway to his results as CCE ignores this setting when a progressive input is detected ... so end results would be the same ..

[FulciLives]

thanks for the info - ill keep an eye out ..

- also, checking the inverse pulldown in CCE , while i think of it, would not of mattered anyway to his results as CCE ignores this setting when a progressive input is detected ... so end results would be the same ..

I was thinking the same thing. I mean I didn't know that CCE would ignore that setting but I was wondering too if it wasn't something else.

I did JUST notice this from the original post in this thread:

LoadPlugin("MPEGDecoder.dll")

Shouldn't that be MPEG2DEC.DLL for Avisynth 2.x or MPEG2DE3.DLL for AviSynthb 2.5x

What is MPEGDecoder.dll ???

I never heard of that one!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[atlas]

Thx you for all your answer.
I will try tonight again.

In fact i heard on one site, that MPEGDecoder.dll was faster than MPEG2DEC.dll

That's why i use this one. But maybe i can test with MPEGDecoder tonight.

----------------------------------------------------
Edit: By the way i leave this options in CCE?:

Progressive Flag Frame: Check
And which frame rate i must to put? 23.976 or 29.97?

And at the end of encoding, which pulldown command line i must use?
Just this one? pulldown.exe input.m2v output.m2v ?

Thx!

[BJ_M]

Progressive Flag Frame

: Check

And which frame rate i must to put?

23.976


use the GUI for pulldown.exe - you may find it easier to use than the command line ..

[atlas]

Yes! It's working now!
I have just change my version of dvd2avi to the 1.76 ( i had 1.77 ) and change my MPEGDecoder.dll with MPEG2DEC.dll.

But i guess it was a dvd2avi problem (not an mpegdecoder) but i will try another day with the newest version of dvd2avi because i want to be sure that the problem came from here.

Thx a lot guys!
I'm happy now thanks to you