Use Vegas 4.0 & DVD architect?

[commedimus]

I have some vhs material I captured using an advc 100. I captured it as a dv type 2 avi file with uncompressed pcm audio. I did some editing and a title using vegas 4.0. I ended up rendering the final edit to dv avi (in order to keep the same properties). I was then intending to convert my PCM audio to ac3 and then convert the dv avi to mpeg 2, and finally author. Last night I used a guide for converting wav to ac3 as someone confirmed that pcm is already in wav format. Unfortunately, BeSweet wouldn't convert. When I went to open up my input file, if I selected wav, it said that the file couldn't be found, and if I selected avi (and chose to convert avi to ac3) it wouldn't convert.
Due to this problem, I decided to try and find how to convert to ac3 using vegas as I heard the program could do that. I found, in my looking, that I could do that, but also more. I have done all the editing with this file that I want to do, so my questions are:

1. Would it make sense to go back and render to mpeg2 and then convert the audio portion of the file to ac3?
-it seems that this would make more sense rather than rendering to dv avi, converting to mpeg2 and converting the audio to ac3

2. Since the file was originally captured as dv type 2, do I need to do any demux or muxing along the way?
- My impression from a guide for using TMPGEnc is that you convert the dv avi to mpeg2 and don't process the audio in that program (because it generally does a not great job). You then convert the pcm audio to ac3 in Besweet or similar program. Finally in whatever authoring software you use, you enter the file locations for the mpeg2 file and the ac3 file and (I guess) they are muxed togther in your authoring software (if they really need to be muxed as I thought the whole idea of dv type 2 was that the audio and videostreams are together, they can just be processed separately).

To reiterate, I was thinking of rendering the video portion of my dv type 2 file to mpeg2 using vegas 4.0 as I have done all editing I needed to do already ( I haven't used vegas for this before, but I figure I can likely use the principles from a guide on using TMPGEnc). I want to then covert the pcm audio portion of the dv type 2 file to ac3 using vegas 4.0. I figure I can then use vegas dvd architect to author and should be able to enter the file locations of the mpeg2 and ac3 and I would hope everything would work out. Is the quality of conversion using vegas 4.0 similar to TMPGEnc (I ask as most everyone seems to use TMPGEnc)?
Let me know where I might be going wrong.
Thanks

[GreyDeath]

It depends on what you're trying to put to DVD. If it's just simply recording TV eps to DVD, then I'd say Vegas is find for MPEG2 conversion. If you need to clean up the source material using noise reduction, or making letterbox bars completely black, TMPGEnc is more suited for that. Also, if you are just doing TV eps, Vegas does it faster only doing a 1pass VBR where as TMPEnc does a 2pass VBR.

You can render the video to MPEG2 first, then the audio to AC3. Unfortunately, I don't think it has a batch feature.

I haven't tried DVD Architect, so I can't comment on that...

[commedimus]

What I captured is a concert by a friends band. It is about 75 minutes long. I am not sure about what batch refers to. I assume it has something to do with keeping the audio and video together?

[housepig]

I am not sure about what batch refers to. I assume it has something to do with keeping the audio and video together?

actually, batch processing refers to being able to set up multiple tasks in an application, and then walk away and have them run while you do something else (like sleep, for instance).

if you had batching capability in Vegas (which you might, I'm not sure, I've never tried to do it), you could set up the parameters for your video encode, then set up the parameters for the audio encode, then start running them back to back, instead of setting up the video, running the video, waiting for it to finish, then setting up the audio, running the audio, etc.

I use batch processing for my avi to mpeg-2 encodes with TMPG - I'll capture a bunch of stuff, then set it all up before I go to bed, and let it run while I sleep.

[BJ_M]

there is batch proccessing for vegas -- but you can just download the script to do what you want also from the sundance web site ..


vegas has full scripting for any function

also -- why use besweet to make ac3 files? use vegas instead ..

[gavmiester]

While on this, and not wanting to hijack the thread...are there any good guides to using Vegas 4.

Ive had some problems with editing when dealing with multiple audio, as in fading music in and out over the voice recordings.

Ive checked the guides here and there is only one but it doesnt cover what im after.

Thanks as always

[BJ_M]

While on this, and not wanting to hijack the thread...are there any good guides to using Vegas 4.

Ive had some problems with editing when dealing with multiple audio, as in fading music in and out over the voice recordings.

Ive checked the guides here and there is only one but it doesnt cover what im after.

Thanks as always

split it where you want a fade and add a fade each side of the split (auto fade off for this method) .. several other ways (as mentioned in the manual)

as for more guides --see this thread
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=185642&highlight=

[commedimus]

Ok, it sounds like batch processing is a time saving method to do a few taks without having to to start (and set up) each part of the process. That is fine, but I am still not sure about whether the file needs to be muxed (and how to do it). I know that in the dvd architect manual it says "mpeg elementary streams are not supported. Even if you plan to relace the audio with pcm or ac3 , you will need to import muxed mpeg files" I could always use vegas 4.0 to encode the audio to ac3 (as I couldn't get besweet to do it) and I could use TMPGEnc to do the encode to mpeg2. Now, I guess I could then enter in both file locations (for the ac3 and the mpeg2) when using TMPGEnc Author and I suppose they would stay in sync? Or would I have to somehow mux them together. Now the dvd architect manual also says:

"Select the Automatically link similar audio and video files check box on the General tab of the Preferences dialog if you want DVD Architect to look for and link audio files with the same base name when you add a video-only file to your project.

For example, if you had a video-only MPEG file (MyProject.mpg) and an audio file (MyProject.wav) in the same folder, DVD Architect will automatically use MyProject.wav as the audio track when you add MyProject.mpg to a menu."

This almost gives the impression that if the mpeg2 and ac3 files have the same title, dvd architect will keep them together?

[BJ_M]

vegas has a dvda mpeg template for the video --encode to that template

which produces a program stream (less audio) video file

then encode the ac3 from the same project and insert it in to you dvda project ..

[commedimus]

Yeah, I believe that will work and as long as the main titles are the same, dvd architect should keep them together. I will post the results.

[commedimus]

As a further update, DVD architect actually has an ac3 encoder as a part of its platform. I just have to figure out how all that works now. If I use the dvda mepg2 I won't have audio so I need to find a way to bring it in with pcm audio and convert to ac3 within dvd architect. It just sounds easier to do it that way, although, I can try a couple of ways to see which works better.

[DaveS]

if you go to file/optimize, you can see the settings for your project & for each clip ... when I set my audio to auto, it encodes to AC3..you can also specify it

you can encode your audio in vegas or in dvda...since dvda only imports muxed audio+video, I usually select the dvda template in vegas and then change the audio to pcm; strictly speaking, this is no longer the template, but the video parms are all right and you will get a program stream you can import into dvda.

then, if you have dvda encode the audio, it will use your pcm in the program stream to encode from, or if in dvda you right click any video segment from your menus, and 'navigate into' you will see where to point it to a replacement audio file, e.g. an ac3 file if you already encoded it in vegas. then, dvda won't encode it.

if you can stay within vegas/dvda, it makes things a bit easier. however, if you plan to encode outside vegas (e.g. tmpgenc, etc.), you can use the PluginPac frameserver w/ Vegas. I have had very good results w/ this on WinXP Home SP1 w/ Vegas 4.0C (I think it had problems w/ Ver B and below). You can then skip saving it as an AVI file first before encoding outside vegas, which saves time as well as possible artifacting due to compression. Instructions are on the debugmode (pluginpac) site.

[commedimus]

"I usually select the dvda template in vegas and then change the audio to pcm; strictly speaking, this is no longer the template, but the video parms are all right and you will get a program stream you can import into dvda. "

Ok, I am not quite sure I understand parts of your paragraph above. Now, if I pick the dvda template in vegas, it will only render the video. My original avi file is dv type two and the audio is PCM. I would think that if I picked the dvda template I would have to encode the PCM to ac3 in vegas 4.0 (as the dvda template will encode to mpeg 2 for video with no audio), and then open the file along with the file for the mpeg2 video in dvd architect. Again, according to the manual if the main part of the file names is the same, dvd architect will bring the files in together. I may be missunderstanding something here, so please set me straight if I am. Basically, I am not sure how to bring in the video encoded to mpeg 2 (in vegas 4.0) along with the pcm audio so that I can encode the pcm to ac3 in dvd architect. Forgive me if I am being overly thick about this.

[commedimus]

Just to clarify the above. My impression has been that if I pick the dvda template it only renders the video to mpeg 2, with absolutely no audio present at all, meaning that I would have to render the audio separately, as it's own file. Are you saying in your post that the dvda template renders the video to mpeg 2, but leaves the audio as it is (in uncompressed pcm or whatever it happens to be)? If that is the case, I can see where I can open the dvda file in dvd architect and set audio to auto to convert it to ac3 in dvd architect.

[BJ_M]

Just to clarify the above. My impression has been that if I pick the dvda template it only renders the video to mpeg 2, with absolutely no audio present at all, meaning that I would have to render the audio separately, as it's own file. Are you saying in your post that the dvda template renders the video to mpeg 2, but leaves the audio as it is (in uncompressed pcm or whatever it happens to be)? If that is the case, I can see where I can open the dvda file in dvd architect and set audio to auto to convert it to ac3 in dvd architect.

as i stated above a couple of times -- you render the video with the video dvda template and then you render the ac3 -- don't touch your project otherwise ... or you can download a script which will do both for you automatic ...

[DaveS]

sorry - didn't mean to add confusion - I like Baldrik's approach as it stays with the templates

[commedimus]

I decided to stick with what BJ_M said to do for now as I didn't get confused by what he said. I am transcoding the video right now. Tomorrow I will transcode the audio to ac3. I try bringing them together in dvd architect and see which of pandora's doors gets opened.

[DaveS]

pandora's away on vacation 8)

when you bring the video into dvda, if it doesn't automatically associated the ac3 file with it (they have to be the same file name, I think (apart from the extension)), you can right click the menu choice for your video and click navigate into (same as double-clicking the menu choice). There you will see the audio and video file names and paths listed - click on the folder icon for the audio file and pick the ac3 file you created...that's all there is to it!

[commedimus]

Last night I went through the whole authoring process. I rendered my project to mpeg2 using the dvda template. Once that was done I rendered the audio to ac3. When I entered the file into the dvd architect program, in the preferences, I had it checked to link the mpeg2 file with an audio file with the same main portion of the file name. That worked fine. I went through the rest of the process with no real problems. I was concerned because when I would preview the project after setting my chaptor stops, the playback was playing back every so many frames rather than a continuous playback (i.e. a frame would show than it would go show a frame from five frames ahead. I am having a hard to explaining it but hopefully this gives an idea). I ended up completing my authoring just to go through the motions of doing it (as this was my first time authoring, other than a short clip I did a week ago). The dvd I burned, suprisingly played back properly in my dvd player. I was very happy as I expected the same playback I had in dvd architect. The audio was in perfect sync.
The one problem I had was that , when I paused the dvd, the picture was a bit pixellated at times. This project was from a vhs in the first place so I wasn't always sure I was just seeing the natural picture distortion that was a part of the vhs signal. I feel there are some places where it looks a bit pixellated. When playing the picture looks alright to me, but I notice this on pause. I am assuming this came from the bitrate I used, and this leads to a problem I had with vegas when rendering the video to mpeg2.
When I selected to render to mainconcept mpeg2 in vegas 4.0, I picked the dvd architect template. I would then click on custom so that I could change the ave and max bitrates. I had used the dvd help bitrate calculator to figure these out. I entered the new numbers for ave, max, as well as, minimum bitrates. When I went to save the changes, in the render as dialog box, under template, it would now say "untitled". Maybe this was the same dvda template with the changes I made, just with a new name to reflect that it was a new template based on these changes. At the time I wasn't sure, so I just reselected the dvda template (after trying to make the changes a couple more times). So, I believe that it ended up going with an ave bitrate of 6,000,000 and a max bitrate of 8,000,000, and a minimum of 192,000. So perhaps this is why my end dvd was a little pixellated. If, Dave or BJ_M, you can think of any other reason, I am interested to know. That is the only part of the process I was disappointed in. Also, when the dvda template is chosen, the default video render quality setting is "good", but I would have tried to change it to "best" (in my initial attempts to pick some custom settings).
What I may do is, go through the procedure again, making my changes in custom, which will end up in the template as "untitled". As stated above, I believe untitled is simply the dvda template with my custom changes. Another thing I might do is use a guide and render with TMPGEnc plus again, as that seemed to do a good job of the clip I did last week. I already have the audio for the project so if I render the video in TMPGEnc as an elementary stream without audio and then join them in TMPGEnc Author, that should hopefully workout without sync problems. Any thoughts on this is greatly appreciated ( and I greatly appreciate the help already given).

[BJ_M]

stay with good (which is best quality) unless you are upsizing your images .. best will not make it any better if your source is same size as your end product .. this is covered in depth by vegas ..

it would show "untiltled" because you changed a setting .. normal ..

if it looks pixelated on pause - it may be that your dvd player pauses on a frame instead of a field which can make the image flicker somewhat and look blurred .
6000 bitrate shouldn't look pixelated really ..

[commedimus]

I ended up rendering my edited avi to mpeg2 with TPMGEnc plus using one of the guides from this site. I wanted to see if it would make a noticeable difference in quality as it has 2 pass vbr rendering. After 30 hours for rendering, I used dvd lab to author as I used elemtary streams, which dvda doesn't accept. I have to say that I didn't really notice much of a difference in quality, and if anything, I actually thought the rendering done with vegas 4.0 was slightly better. I know that goes against what most people say, but that is what I noticed (I still have to do a more critical a/b comparison of the two). I am still a bit bothered that on either, when paused, at some points in can look a little digitized (I am not always sure pixellated is the best way to put it, although it is probably the proper term). Playback isn't a problem that I can notice so I suppose that is what counts. Actually, my dvd player is a pioneer 343 and I noticed that the picture wasn't as good when I played the dvd in a Samsung(P421 I believe). It had more of what I would describe as pixellation, and even while playing it didn't look as good. Not sure why that is. I am moving on to doing a project from my dv camcorder, so that should hopefully look better as the vhs would have had a fair amount of picture noise to begin with. I will likely try doing the whole thing with vegas and dvda as it worked well and didn't take near as much time to encode. I have to say that I really liked dvd lab for authoring, it has the best manual I have come across for explaining everything in a very easy to understand manner.